Paint help

[franx]

hi,
I’m currently building the Apogee Zephyr Model and working towards this receiving my level one certification. I came on here to look for some help on painting advice as I’ve never really painted any of my rockets before, or at least one like this. I’ve been seeing mixed reviews about the rust-oleum brand which is kind of disheartening because that is the only one at my nearest hardware store. But I just wanted to make a post on here and see if anybody can provide some insight as to why rust-oleum has such mixed opinions surrounding it? Also, I haven’t found anybody who has asked about paint for finer details as I was planning on painting on a few decorative details onto the body. So, I was wondering what paint would be best to do those paintbrush details?
Thanks!

 

[Scott_650]

hi,
I’m currently building the Apogee Zephyr Model and working towards this receiving my level one certification. I came on here to look for some help on painting advice as I’ve never really painted any of my rockets before, or at least one like this. I’ve been seeing mixed reviews about the rust-oleum brand which is kind of disheartening because that is the only one at my nearest hardware store. But I just wanted to make a post on here and see if anybody can provide some insight as to why rust-oleum has such mixed opinions surrounding it? Also, I haven’t found anybody who has asked about paint for finer details as I was planning on painting on a few decorative details onto the body. So, I was wondering what paint would be best to do those paintbrush details?
Thanks!

I’ve had the most problems with Rusto 2X but it’s not the only culprit, other brands of spray paint can have issues too. The most common one I’ve had is when applying a coat of paint over a base coat, the top coat “reactivates” the base coat and parts of or even the entire surface wrinkles up. It’s an annoying thing and the only solution when it happens is to sand the entire rocket down pretty much to a bare surface and start again. Even when following the drying/curing times on the label to the letter this can happen. Even when the paint passes the “sniff test” - get up close and take a whiff, if you don’t smell paint it’s good to go - it can happen. Evidently, in order to meet the environmental requirements for VOCs, the carrier solvents in commercial spray paints are fairly aggressive. Every brand of enamel paint (lacquers are different) are susceptible to this but Rusto 2X seems to be the worst. This all applies to 2X clear, any clear for that matter, so I rarely clear coat my rockets.

The other big issue with Rusto 2X is “cottage cheesing” - the paint sprays out in a lumpy, thick, dry layer that looks like cottage cheese. This seems to happen most often with gloss white. Again, break out the sand paper and start all over.

Again, no brand is immune but Rusto 2X seems to be the most troublesome. I’ve had my most consistent results with Ace Hardware Premium, the downside is it doesn’t come in the range of colors other paints do and some of the gloss colors - red specifically - aren’t as shiny as other paints. But it dries and cures fast, sprays fairly thick so it covers well and I haven’t had to sand down a wrinkled up rocket…yet.

There are Rustoleum paints that have worked well for me, the gloss metallic colors have all been consistently good, regular non-2X Rusto hasn’t been nearly as troublesome, never had a problem with any of the flat colors, my go to primer is Rustoleum High Build Filler Primer (not 2X primer, I’ve never cared for it) so if the only paint you can find is regular Rustoleum all hope is not lost. A few tips I can pass on are:

- follow the instructions on the can to the letter, especially recoat times.

- shake your paint! When you think it’s shaken enough, shake it again.

- keep some scrap tubes around for testing compatibility.

- if in doubt about whether the paint is fully cured let it sit for a couple more days, or longer.

- surface prep is important - the smoother and cleaner the surface is the better the final results.

- just like any skill practice and patience matter.

Good luck, don’t let “analysis paralysis” discourage you and post your results as you go!

 

[prfesser]

I've had great luck with Rustoleum. And bad luck. And great luck with Krylon. And bad luck. And others have posted about good and bad luck with both products. Higher quality spray paints such as Duplicolor, Tamiya, and Testors seem to give better results but at higher cost. So my advice, worth at least twice what you are paying for it:

• Fly it naked the first time. If it gives you a successful cert, it's earned its paint. (Courtesy of @cwbullet)
• Get a can of Rustoleum and of Krylon, and test both on a suitable surface, such as a scrap of body tube.
• Surface prep is key. There's lots of advice on the forums re. proper prep. Lots of sandpaper will be needed...
• Spray it right. If the first coat covers completely, you're probably spraying too much or too close. Practice "dusting" multiple coats to avoid runs. Check the directions for recoat times, usually 10 minutes to an hour. I tend to wait the maximum time to recoat, to give the previous coats time to firm up. Shorten the time a bit when it's hot outside since the solvent evaporates more quickly.
• Fluorescent and other brilliant colors often contain dyes (dissolved in the solvent) rather than pigments (solid particles dispersed in solvent). In my experience dye colors seem to run more easily than pigmented paints, and they don't cover as well as pigments.
• Use the same brand when spraying more than one color.

 

[David Schwantz]

I use rusty primer for just about everything. I do not use their paint. But for brushing I would use Testors, Model Master.

 

[neil_w]

Everyone has to go through their own private journey with paint.

I personally have had good enough results with the Rusto 2x. The key (I think) is being very conservative with recoat times. I do my set of 2 or 3 coats (occasionally 4) about 10 minutes apart, and then wait at least 4 days (often a week) before the next. I have only had one instance of a top coat crazing the base coat, and that was only in a few very small areas that I was able to deal with.

The advantages of the 2x are (a) wide color selection, (b) wide availability, and (c) pretty good coverage.

The Rustoleum Stops-Rust metallics have given me consistently *excellent* results. I love them.

@lakeroadster has had very good experience with the Stops-Rust regular paints. I haven't tried them yet. The color selection isn't as good, but they have the basics covered.

I've had good luck with the Rustoleum primers. I usually start with the grey filler/primer, and sometimes (depending on my mood) follow with the 2x primer before applying my base coat. The primers dry a lot faster than the gloss top coats.

I have gotten best results when following this sequence:
1) filler/primer, then sand
2) Apply paint coat (with or without additional primer)
3) Wait a few days
4) Wet sand. Nothing crazy, just smooth it out
5) Apply one more heavy coat

Often I will stop at step 2 because I am lazy, but whenever I've gone through step 5 I've gotten a very nice gloss finish. Not museum-quality, but more than good enough for me.

 

[Azamiryou]

But I just wanted to make a post on here and see if anybody can provide some insight as to why rust-oleum has such mixed opinions surrounding it?

It could be a matter of technique, but the results people see are so different that I suspect there are actually different paints in the cans. Perhaps they get paints (or ingredients) from different suppliers all the time, and it's just luck what you get. Or it could be regional — depending on your region you could be getting paint from different producers, or different storage conditions. Or they could be supplying different paints to different stores depending on the contract price.

Whatever the case, I've given up on them.

Krylon Fusion hasn't let me down yet.

 

[mtnmanak]

For shaking rattle cans, I recommend making yourself a drill powered can shaker like the guy in this video did:



I saw this video a couple years ago, made one for myself and I have no idea how I lived trying to shake rattle cans by hand.

Materials list is pretty simple - total cost is probably $10-$15 (assuming you have a drill)
- Drill with a chuck - I will assume you have one already
- Some 3" PVC pipe - the Lowes and Home Depot in my town sell cuttoffs pretty cheaply - you don't need a long piece. I picked up a short section for a few bucks
- a 3" drain plug - I used this one off Amazon for less than $8 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5WVQY
- A longer screw to provide a shaft to chuck into the drill

I put the can in the tube with a towel to keep it from rattiling around. I always warm the cans before I use them (warm water bath). If the can is new or has been sitting for a while, I spin it on high speed for about 30 sec one way, then 30 sec the other way, then turn the can over and repeat. If I have already mixed it in the past couple days, I spin it for maybe 20 sec in both directions.

This produces perfectly shaken rattle cans with almost no effort on your part and really increases the consistency of the paint. I have also used this shaker on small Testor and Tamiya cans and it works just fine - just pack the can in with a towel.

I need to post this up someplace in a general post, but not sure where to post it.

 

[SolarYellow]

Zoro is having 25% off most of the site for the rest of today with code ACA25SWVF5W.

They have most Krylon Acryli-Quik colors in stock and free shipping over $50. A great time to stock up on paint.

 

[Capt. Eric]

My best advice to avoid crinkling is after the first coat to put on very light coats. Like a mist. Takes a lot of self discipline to stop myself from giving it just one more shot, but I usually regret it when I do it anyway.

The lacquer sprays work really well. You'll only find black and white in the hardware stores, but at the hobby stores, Testors has a few other colors that work very well. Testors in general work well, although a little more $$.

 

[K'Tesh]

Whatever you do.... Don't use A.C.M.E. clear paint for your final coat.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...you-use-the-wrong-brand-of-clear-paint.56897/

 

[kjohnson]

James uses Tamiya brand in this demonstration, but the spraying and timing tips he shares have worked for me with many different brands of paint, from cheap hardware store stuff to expensive hobbyist paints.


Pay attention to spray distance and speed, make many light coats, waiting 15 minutes between coats, and make sure you have a good primered and sanded surface.

 

[-Slick-Ice]

For the first layers I would use the primer only spray paint or the 2X flat (black/white) since it dried a lot faster and doesn't run.
Unfortunately colors like whatever they called "Red" don't exist in satin and were some "Ultra Gloss" finish. I needed to let this dry for several weeks then sand it before applying a clear coat.

I have had 3 bad cans of 2x semi-gloss white that would constantly clog and one semi-gloss black that had half the pigment that the first can had. I promised I would never use spray paint again on a rocket yet here I am on probably my 14th can of spray paint on the 5.5" IRIS.

 

[Donnager]

Kilz primer, dusty, but is pretty resistant to the gator skin solvent shrivel, and goes on pretty thick.

I've had good luck with the duplicolor sandable filler primers.

For top coat, either Duplicolor Lacquer or Seymour MRO paints. For large rockets I usually get the quart cans of Duplicolor lacquer and shoot with a cheap, nearly disposable Harbor Freight gun, but some don't have air compressors or areas for this. The recoat window is very short for the lacquers. MRO can be recoated in either less than an hour or wait 24-48 (from memory).

Those paints aren't all cheap, but I really like them. Seymour MRO has a more limited set of colors than others, but I've not found it to be a problem. They make hard coatings.

Paint age can contribute to problems, like the foaming cottage cheese and solvent issues. So can temperature, mixing/shaking, etc...

I've tried the water based stuff and it doesn't work for me.