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rocketcharlie

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I bought this kit from Madcow during a sale they were having about a year and a half ago. Because it was back ordered so far i think a lot of other folks must have also. I have never attempted 2 stages before ( except LPR ). I'm baffled by a few things.

1) If the staging timer goes in the sustainer how does a person get the igniter wires to the 29mm motor? The centering rings don't leave much room to get past the motor tube.

2) It doesn't seem like the av bay provided has enough room for 2 altimeters, batteries, and a staging timer, has anyone else found this to be true? Did you get a longer coupling tube for the ebay?

3) This rocket just uses drag separation to separate sustainer from booster? It is hoped that this happens prior to the sustainer lighting? I would like to light the sustainer fairly soon after booster burn out because I have noticed this seems to work better at launches I have attended.

4) There doesn't seem to be an av bay for the booster. Did you make one? Use the transition for an av bay? Pop at the top motor?

5) Any other advice?

Thanks in advance-
 

markg

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I bought this kit from Madcow during a sale they were having about a year and a half ago. Because it was back ordered so far i think a lot of other folks must have also. I have never attempted 2 stages before ( except LPR ). I'm baffled by a few things.

1) If the staging timer goes in the sustainer how does a person get the igniter wires to the 29mm motor? The centering rings don't leave much room to get past the motor tube.

2) It doesn't seem like the av bay provided has enough room for 2 altimeters, batteries, and a staging timer, has anyone else found this to be true? Did you get a longer coupling tube for the ebay?

3) This rocket just uses drag separation to separate sustainer from booster? It is hoped that this happens prior to the sustainer lighting? I would like to light the sustainer fairly soon after booster burn out because I have noticed this seems to work better at launches I have attended.

4) There doesn't seem to be an av bay for the booster. Did you make one? Use the transition for an av bay? Pop at the top motor?

5) Any other advice?
1 - run brake line conduit down the side of the MMT
2 - haven't built this kit, so can't answer this one
3 - I'd have a charge in the booster for separation
4 - yes, you'll need to add a bulkhead to the I/S coupler

CJ's got a build thread for this kit that's worth a read :

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/cjs-builds-madcow-nike-apache-2-stage.143897/

cheers - mark
 

rocketcharlie

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i want to amend what i wrote earlier. There is a coupler that i can make an ebay out of. It was inside the booster body tube.
 

rocketcharlie

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there is something like 1/8" clearance between MMT and BT. Brake line is bigger than this, correct?
 

Eric

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Here are a few of mine. I made a channel with some square dowel. Its still only half built.

0416181935.jpg
0416181652.jpg
0416181647a.jpg
0416181647.jpg
 

rocketcharlie

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Thanks Eric. I like your solution. i also like your motor retainers. Are those off the shelf or did you make them?
 

Charles_McG

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I use a 1/8” OD polymer tubing that I can run ematch or CAT5 wire through. I usually tape the pair of tubes together.

IMG_1046.jpg
 

rocketcharlie

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Markg, thanks. i did a search on this rocket and somehow missed that thread
 

OverTheTop

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You can get some really good thin plastic (styrene I think) tubing from your local hobby shop. You will pay more than a cutoff piece of brake line, but personally I think it is more fit-for-purpose.
 

rocketcharlie

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I like the idea of plastic better than any sort of conductive material due to the possibility of a short
 

rocketcharlie

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Thank you Flyfalcons. I should have thought to explore other forums besides HPR. I got started on this build and have done a couple of things that i would do differently if i had it to do again.
 

Flyfalcons

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I need to get mine finished, got bogged down with other projects recently. I will be installing an RRC3 in the transition section, using a charge for agogee deployment, and using the aux channel for a small separation charge for the sustainer as a backup to drag separation. That is adding complication to the build, but worth it for the purity and practice for future staged builds.
 

kidrobo

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I bought this kit from Madcow during a sale they were having about a year and a half ago. Because it was back ordered so far i think a lot of other folks must have also. I have never attempted 2 stages before ( except LPR ). I'm baffled by a few things.

1) If the staging timer goes in the sustainer how does a person get the igniter wires to the 29mm motor? The centering rings don't leave much room to get past the motor tube.

2) It doesn't seem like the av bay provided has enough room for 2 altimeters, batteries, and a staging timer, has anyone else found this to be true? Did you get a longer coupling tube for the ebay?

3) This rocket just uses drag separation to separate sustainer from booster? It is hoped that this happens prior to the sustainer lighting? I would like to light the sustainer fairly soon after booster burn out because I have noticed this seems to work better at launches I have attended.

4) There doesn't seem to be an av bay for the booster. Did you make one? Use the transition for an av bay? Pop at the top motor?

5) Any other advice?

Thanks in advance-
  1. I used 1/4" aluminum tubing hammered into a size that would fit between the motor mount and body tube. I formed it around the mmt.
  2. Not a ton of space. I used an Eggtimer Proton for staging and dual deploy. It has a wifi switch and 6 outputs.
  3. I ran a Quantum and Quark from Eggtimer in ISC. The Quantum fired a separation charge and handled the apogee deploy with the Quark doing backup
  4. I grabbed a couple extra bulkplates to make the av bay in the ISC. There was a single 1/4-20 all thread running down the middle with a 1/16" g10 plate that held the altimeters. I can post a pick of the setup.
  5. I used a nosecone tracker sled from Lab Rat Rocketry with and Eggfinder Mini. It worked well and was easy to use.
 

Wallace

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Someone actually pulled that off (successfully) by offsetting the sustainer motor mount. Did not look like it would work to me, but apparently it did. There's (or was) a build thread on it.
 
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Wallace

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Things have a way of mysteriously disappearing here..
 

rocketcharlie

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Offsetting the motor in the sustainer? Don't think I would ever have thought of that. Sounds pretty sketchy.
 

blackjack2564

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Look under Research right below all the staging thread got moved to "Clusters-airstarts-staging" all are bundled there now.
 

rharshberger

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So have clusters, air-starts and staging been moved under a "research" forum now?
No, its in a category by its self and unrestricted, it is however in the Advanced Topics section which previously only contained Restricted: Reasearch.
 

blackjack2564

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So have clusters, air-starts and staging been moved under a "research" forum now?
That there's funny....I literally meant under [below] research forum, especially since you are from "down under" ya'll should have caught that one...lol

Screen Shot 2019-06-05 at 11.35.14 PM.png
 

OverTheTop

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That there's funny....I literally meant under [below] research forum, especially since you are from "down under" ya'll should have caught that one...lol
No wonder it didn't make so much sense to me. Since I am non-USA I am deemed unworthy, so I don't even get to see the link "[Restricted]Research"

Are there any mechanisms that would allow me access to the Research forum?
 

OverTheTop

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I know what the mechanisms preventing access for me are. I was wondering if there was a way to be allowed access that is not readily identifiable.
 

Steve Shannon

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I know what the mechanisms preventing access for me are. I was wondering if there was a way to be allowed access that is not readily identifiable.
You should be able to see the advanced topics forum and the cluster/staging threads though. It’s not restricted. Nor is it “under” the unseeable “Research” Forum. It’s adjacent.
[Unrestricted] Staging, Airstarts & Clusters
https://www.rocketryforum.com/index.php?forums/189/
 

Andrew_ASC

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You have to log in to see the unrestricted area to my knowledge or at least to access posts there.
 

rocketcharlie

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I'm not sure if I'm being told I should have this thread in the staging forum, but since I started it here... I am assuming a separation charge would go in the interstage coupler. So make the 4" coupler tube into a removable av bay and mount a charge on the top, centered in the 1.6" coupler tube.
 

OverTheTop

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Question whether you need a separation charge. The real ones of these used drag separation I believe.
 
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