BP Gap Staging Test

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kitchw8436

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Been working on a prototype 2-stage BP powered rocket for our WTSV advanced summer camp project. Hadn't done gap staging before so wanted to run a test before I ask kids to build a bunch of rockets and have a bunch of failed flights. I wanted to avoid the zero gap staging with scotch taped motors because it requires friction fitting both the booster and sustainer motor and I find that difficult to get correct. So I wanted both stages to be able to use engine hooks to hold the motors in place. This was the motivation for gap staging. The basic design is 18 mm motor tubes in BT-50 airframe tube. The booster motor tube is 3.5 in long and buts up to the sustainer motor tube, which is a standard 2.75 in length. Figure 1 shows an image of the design from OpenRocket. The coupler tube has been removed to show detail of the motor tube connection. Figure 2 is a photo of the as built design. You can see the motor clips in both booster and sustainer, the coupler, and one of the vent holes in the booster.
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Figure 1: Motor tube detail

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Figure 2: Photograph of booster and motor mount of sustainer

There are three 1/4 in diameter vent holes in the booster. This design was based on Harry Stine's guidance in "Handbook of Model Rocketry" 7 Ed, pp 164 - 168. Harry used two 1/4" vent holes, 180 degrees apart. I used three hole because I'd made a three fin rocket and the the holes had to fit between the fins. The design makes it easy to install the motors and assemble the booster on the sustainer. The motor clip on the sustainer, just slides inside the top of the booster motor tube. I did not use any tape. The friction of the coupler is all that holds the booster to the sustainer.

To validate the design, I performed one static test using Estes motors, B6-0 to B6-6. My test stand consisted of simply duct taping the sustainer to a metal pole in my side yard. The test work just fine validating the design. I took video of the test. Figure 4 shows four frames from the video of the test. Frame 1 is before booster burn through. Frame 2 is after booster burn through but before sustainer ignition. In this frame you can see the venting and, very interestingly (to me at least) fire balls at the leading edges of the vent plumes. Frame 3 is after sustainer ignition showing the booster successfully separated from the booster. Frame 4 is just after ejection charge ignition, showing the nose cone separating from the sustainer tube.

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Figure 3: Images from video of test 1) before booster burn through, 2) after booster burn through but before sustainer ignition, 3) after sustainer ignition, 4) after ejection charge ignition.

So what did I learn?
1) You can design an easy to assemble 2-stage rocket using motor clips for motor retention and avoid the taping/friction fit issue.
2) Harry Stine's 1960s gap staging design works fine.
3) You get burning exhaust out of the vent holes. This was the coolest discovery, at least to me.

I'm looking forward to using this basic design for our advanced rocketry camp this summer. It's the first week of June. I'll report back afterwards.
 

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Sound good. The Quest Zenith II uses motor hooks and gap staging like that. It works fine.

The Estes Boosted Bertha, among others, uses screw-on motor retainers and gap staging, though the retainer on the sustainer gets kind of cooked after a couple of dozen flights.
 
Sound good. The Quest Zenith II uses motor hooks and gap staging like that. It works fine.

The Estes Boosted Bertha, among others, uses screw-on motor retainers and gap staging, though the retainer on the sustainer gets kind of cooked after a couple of dozen flights.

I reckon you could use these as a supply of screw-on caps if you don't have a 3D printer to make "normal" ones. Could even hack some material off the central portion that threads on and retains the motor to keep it light.

https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes-mo...-and-accssories/estes-parts/estes-bt55-stager
 
I reckon you could use these as a supply of screw-on caps if you don't have a 3D printer to make "normal" ones. Could even hack some material off the central portion that threads on and retains the motor to keep it light.

https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes-mo...-and-accssories/estes-parts/estes-bt55-stager
Those stagers are to adapt the Booster-55 to the BT-55-based ARF models (such as the Spirit). They go on those models in the place of their regular screw-on retainer and provide a ring that fits into the coupler on the top of the Booster-55.

Boosted Bertha comes with the Estes 18mm screw-on retainers.

Venting the Booster-55, Booster-60 helps reliability, especially with C11-0s in the booster rather than D12-0s.
 
Great job, especially love the fireballs coming out the vents.

Doesn’t confirm, but supports the hot gas/photon theory over particle theory for sustainer ignition.
 
Great job, especially love the fireballs coming out the vents.

Doesn’t confirm, but supports the hot gas/photon theory over particle theory for sustainer ignition.
Yeah, I really thought capturing the fireballs was cool. Most interesting outcome of the experiment. We've got a high speed camera at our lab. Maybe a summer project would be to get some better images.
 
I seem to recall that Estes motors have the nozzle somewhat inside the end of the case. Perhaps one could notch the edge of the case for a retainer and butt the motors up against each other?
 
I seem to recall that Estes motors have the nozzle somewhat inside the end of the case. Perhaps one could notch the edge of the case for a retainer and butt the motors up against each other?

Technically, that's a mod that's not allowed under either NAR or Tripoli insurance. In the case of this rocket, the designer wanted the motors to not be butted together.
 
Technically, that's a mod that's not allowed under either NAR or Tripoli insurance. In the case of this rocket, the designer wanted the motors to not be butted together.
I know. I'm just evil. One could make a tiny ring for the same purpose, although perhaps gluing it on one of the motors would also be a violation. We're both assuming standard, manufactured motors. OTOH, is the summer camp under NAR or Tripoli?

I think the designer wanted to use engine hooks, which isn't necessarily the same as not butting the motors together.
 
I seem to recall that Estes motors have the nozzle somewhat inside the end of the case. Perhaps one could notch the edge of the case for a retainer and butt the motors up against each other?
It's not really necessary. The motor clips are small enough that the one retaining the sustainer motor slips right inside the motor tube from the booster. Plus I really wanted to gap stage anyway to allow for a longer booster design.
 
So please explain why one wants a gap? More reliable Sustainer ignition?
butting motors together for staging is more reliable, but vastly limits the length of the booster. Scale rockets often do not fit the dimensions of 2 motors stacked in contact. Also it is a challenge to do so another reason to chase it.
 
I've done several multistage rockets by the cellophane tape/butted together, usually works fine. I've not had a non-staging event. I have had ignition delays, from old engines, but they all lit. :) Pointing straight down, in a couple of cases and once in a cherokee-d modded for an e engine, which was a bad batch, and exploded about head level. :) The two upper stages with engines looked to make 1000 feet. before ballistic recovery. Exactly where I was standing. :) When you see a dot, with 3 lines, getting bigger, move!
 
So please explain why one wants a gap? More reliable Sustainer ignition?
I don't think any black powder staging method is MORE reliable than taped non-gap staging.

Gap staging as mentioned gives more flexibility in length of booster, with caveat that when booster gets too long (Mongoose is an example) without some other intervention the booster fails to tumble and comes in ballistic. This is considered poor form.

Gap staging in my experience is very reliable. Failure modes include

Not using a zero delay booster motor

Premature separation (sustainer blows off the booster prior to the flame arriving. Usually do to a longer gap AND either absence a vent AND/OR improper ducting of the booster blow through gases to the nozzle.)

Extraneous clay in the nozzle of the sustainer blocking ignition (same thing can happen with single stage.) I haven't seen this, have only heard of it, some people stick a pointy metal think up the nozzle and scrape it a bit preflight to make sure powder is exposed.

Putting the booster motor in backwards. See my signature block.

There may be others.

(Edit: thanks @BEC!)
 
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Clay in the sustainer nozzle and putting the sustainer motor in the wrong way around are both failure modes for taped direct staging as well. Been there, done that, more than once.

Since the nozzle on 1/4A, 1/2A and A3 13mm motors is so small, I've occasionally even had failures to ignite the sustainer using direct staging. I now use a 3/32 inch drill bit in my fingers to scrape (not scrap) the propellant grain in these, then tap the dust out in my hand, repeating until the dust is nice and black, before using such a motor in a second stage. And even then, every once in awhile it will not light. This is mainly why I'm on my third Checkmate and need to build a fourth...
 
I have gap staged almost 14 inches. D12 to another D12. My Saturn V launches on 3 D or E motors and I have another V on a cluster of 5 (4C5s and1 D12) to another D12 in the second stage. Only time I had a failure was when the central motor did not lite.
 
I have gap staged almost 14 inches. D12 to another D12. My Saturn V launches on 3 D or E motors and I have another V on a cluster of 5 (4C5s and1 D12) to another D12 in the second stage. Only time I had a failure was when the central motor did not lite.
Excellent. 53 inches in flight here twice. I did 72” on a test stand, but it failed in flight. All these were D to D.
 
Why?

Because:
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18 to 4x13 Gap staged!
 
Did booster tumble or do featherweight ballistic?
kind of ballistic, but featherweight since the booster body tube is made from cardstock.

Screenshot 2024-07-03 at 9.06.29 AM.png

I have a little bit of room in between the sustainers to fit a streamer, I might try that next time.
 
How much vent is required for a D booster?
I am one size fits all (aka KISS principle)

I use a hole punch cuz it’s easy and usually cuts clean holes.

Two holes 180 degrees apart. My concern that a unilateral hole might cause flight path deviation is likely more theoretical than real. I’d be interested if anyone has any evidence one way or the other.

Then again, I don’t worry about cosmetic issues.

@MALBAR 70 ‘s experience with open gap staging essentially proves you CAN’T make the vents too big.

you also MUST use vents (IMO) for any significant gap stage distance (what exactly that is I dunno, I’d say if you have an enclosed space over three inches, ya probly need a vent.)

You CAN’T (again IMO) oversized the gap (aside from violating structural integrity, but let’s stay real.). What is absolutely CRITICAL is that when a gap or gaps is used, there is a clearly define path of the hot gases from the booster forward end that passes OVER the nozzle of the sustainer.

Remember, the sustainer nozzle is not a tube open at both ends, it’s really a deep blind PIT. Realistically, you can’t force gases or solids INTO that pit. What you can EASILY do is fire PHOTONS from those hot gases right through the pit to the powder.

Just get your gas near the nozzle, then it can go sideways or past the nozzle or even back down the rocket between the extended motor mount and the body tube. Doesn’t matter where it goes after it passes over the nozzle, just has to get there.
 
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