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New Estes 3” Der Big Red Max coming soon!!

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dpower

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Stop it, Estes! 😉 Far more *fantastic* new releases than I have time to build! On the build pile they go! 😁
 

Scott_650

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My local hobby shop got some new Estes news today!
#9721 Der Big Red Max
This is the 3” upscale kit shown at the NARAM manufacturer’s forum earlier this year.
Pro Series II using E16-4 and F16-6 engines.
Image attached!!
I’m amazed how much of a reaction this is causing on the Estes Model Rockets fan FB page - more than the Saturns!
 

K'Tesh

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a 3" version of so many popular kits are now possible...

Omega
Mean Machine
Citation Patriot
Der Big Red Max (1977)
Maxi Icarus
etc...

They're gonna sell a lot of these... Probably to me. ;)
 

Scott_650

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My local hobby shop got some new Estes news today!
#9721 Der Big Red Max
This is the 3” upscale kit shown at the NARAM manufacturer’s forum earlier this year.
Pro Series II using E16-4 and F16-6 engines.
Image attached!!
A screen cap from that vNARAM video posted on FB showing the DBRM reminded me of the other upsized rocket coming in 21 - the big Mars Snooper. Doubt that one will be a PSII kit, from the picture I’d say 24mm powered rather than 29. I’d say the Langfords purchase of Estes has been a success...
 

James Duffy

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Cool...that means a new nosecone too!
Are we 100% sure of this? An inspection of the V-NARAM Manufacturer's Forum video seems to indicate that the model shown there may simply be using the Doorknob nose cone. The painting directions for the kit may direct the builder to paint the top portion of the airframe tube black to cheat the eye.

I sincerely hope that there will be a new nose cone with a greater aspect ratio, but we've seen no concrete evidence yet.

James
 

Scott_650

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Are we 100% sure of this? An inspection of the V-NARAM Manufacturer's Forum video seems to indicate that the model shown there may simply be using the Doorknob nose cone. The painting directions for the kit may direct the builder to paint the top portion of the airframe tube black to cheat the eye.

I sincerely hope that there will be a new nose cone with a greater aspect ratio, but we've seen no concrete evidence yet.

James
If it does use the standard PSII/Big Daddy/Doorknob nose cone then that picture of the facecard/poster Turbofireball posted above has been seriously photoshopped!
 

NOLA_BAR

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Big Daddy nosecone for a Der Red Max would be awful. I doubt it will be, and if that parachute is a printed nylon version👍
 

Scott_650

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I grabbed a couple pix of built Doorknobs (not Estes rendered photos but kits built by forum and FB members) off the web and compared them side by side with the picture Turbo posted here and on YORF of the DBRM - the nose cones are not the same - the posted DBRM cone is clearly rounded and a different length to width ratio than the Big Daddy/Doorknob cone. Again, unless Estes is pulling some real visual trickery with that “coming soon” poster picture it’s a different nose cone. If it does use a Doorknob cone with the upper portion of the body tube painted black there’s going to be some seriously disappointed folks out here in the hobby rocketry world!
 

turbofireball

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It is a new nosecone mold, and has nothing to do with the Doorknob kit. I'm attaching an image capture from the video of the NARAM Virtual Manufacturer's Forum from earlier this year, where Bill Stine holds up the prototype, and you can easily tell it is the correct nose cone.
 

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K'Tesh

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Let's settle this once and for all... @JumpJet... Could you let us know. Is this a new 3" nosecone, or not?
Thanks!!!

Edit... I didn't see Turbofireball's and Initiator01's posts until after I posted this.
 
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ThirstyBarbarian

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Having a new 3” nosecone is going to open up a lot of new design options for other rockets. Nose cones seem like one of the most restricting bottlenecks in design and scaling.
 

Scott_650

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they should have never got rid of the 4" DRM
Estes doesn’t sell a motor that can safely fly the MDRM. Unless they have a mad scientist developing some secret sauce high power BP formula it’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see big, heavy MPR/HPR kits from Estes again - the current PSII rockets that can fly on adapted 24mm BP motors looks like their plan for bigger rockets. Besides, why should they try to compete with all the other MPR/HPR companies in an area that’s not in their DNA or skill sets? Are the folks who regularly buy LOC, Madcow, Public Missiles, Sirius, Aerotech, Wildman, AMW, Performance Hobbies, etc rockets really going to buy enough big Estes rockets to make it a sustainable product for Estes?
 

NOLA_BAR

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Estes doesn’t sell a motor that can safely fly the MDRM. Unless they have a mad scientist developing some secret sauce high power BP formula it’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see big, heavy MPR/HPR kits from Estes again - the current PSII rockets that can fly on adapted 24mm BP motors looks like their plan for bigger rockets. Besides, why should they try to compete with all the other MPR/HPR companies in an area that’s not in their DNA or skill sets? Are the folks who regularly buy LOC, Madcow, Public Missiles, Sirius, Aerotech, Wildman, AMW, Performance Hobbies, etc rockets really going to buy enough big Estes rockets to make it a sustainable product for Estes?
Estes was carrying the 4” MDRM nose cone and body tube, which satisfied most rocketeers. You could get the rest of the parts from other vendors. Unfortunately, it looks like they may have stopped. Last I checked only the body tube was in stock.
 

K'Tesh

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Estes was carrying the 4” MDRM nose cone and body tube, which satisfied most rocketeers. You could get the rest of the parts from other vendors. Unfortunately, it looks like they may have stopped. Last I checked only the body tube was in stock.
I suspect that they're just out of stock on the NCs.

EDIT... Then I go and look for it. You may be right. it's not on the site anymore.
 

Scott_650

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Estes was carrying the 4” MDRM nose cone and body tube, which satisfied most rocketeers. You could get the rest of the parts from other vendors. Unfortunately, it looks like they may have stopped. Last I checked only the body tube was in stock.
I’m not going to speak definitively for Toby Vanderbeek of the great looking Vanderburn Rocketry PSII clones and Estes classic upsizes but iirc the account of his conversation with Estes customer service there are more 4” MDRM nose cones coming. Hope so, his MDRM clone looks like an improvement over the original.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Estes doesn’t sell a motor that can safely fly the MDRM. Unless they have a mad scientist developing some secret sauce high power BP formula it’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see big, heavy MPR/HPR kits from Estes again - the current PSII rockets that can fly on adapted 24mm BP motors looks like their plan for bigger rockets. Besides, why should they try to compete with all the other MPR/HPR companies in an area that’s not in their DNA or skill sets? Are the folks who regularly buy LOC, Madcow, Public Missiles, Sirius, Aerotech, Wildman, AMW, Performance Hobbies, etc rockets really going to buy enough big Estes rockets to make it a sustainable product for Estes?
Yep. I agree. I think the biggest rockets Estes is likely to make going forward are the lightweight 3” rockets like this and the Doorknob that can fly on E16 and F15 motors, and I’m perfectly fine with that. And now with laser cutting, it’s very easy to get upgrade ply parts for these kinds of rockets so you can fly them on bigger composite motors, if that’s your thing.
 

K'Tesh

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Like what Thirsty said before, I'd love to see Estes create more upscales (and perhaps a few downscales) of classic NCs for scaling purposes... I'd love to try a BT-60 version of the Trident.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I’m not going to speak definitively for Toby Vanderbeek of the great looking Vanderburn Rocketry PSII clones and Estes classic upsizes but iirc the account of his conversation with Estes customer service there are more 4” MDRM nose cones coming. Hope so, his MDRM clone looks like an improvement over the original.
I also am not going to speak definitively for Toby Vanderbeek of the great looking Vanderburn Rocketry PSII clones, and Estes classic upscales, and the current PSII kit MPR/HPR upgrades, like the Doorknob plywood centering rings and fins — but what do you want to bet that if people ask nicely, he will make a fin and ring upgrade for this kit too?
 

Scott_650

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I also am not going to speak definitively for Toby Vanderbeek of the great looking Vanderburn Rocketry PSII clones, and Estes classic upscales, and the current PSII kit MPR/HPR upgrades, like the Doorknob plywood centering rings and fins — but what do you want to bet that if people ask nicely, he will make a fin and ring upgrade for this kit too?
Oh yeah! An upgraded DBRM on a hot 29mm reload sounds like an awesome good time! After the Hoosiers and Buckeyes are done pummeling each other in the ‘Shoe I’m firing up OR for some sims...
 

crossfire

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I also am not going to speak definitively for Toby Vanderbeek of the great looking Vanderburn Rocketry PSII clones, and Estes classic upscales, and the current PSII kit MPR/HPR upgrades, like the Doorknob plywood centering rings and fins — but what do you want to bet that if people ask nicely, he will make a fin and ring upgrade for this kit too?
I have a Doorknob and up grade coming from Tony. He only has 2 Doorknobs left.
 

Woody's Workshop

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Stop it, Estes! 😉 Far more *fantastic* new releases than I have time to build! On the build pile they go! 😁
DON'T SAY THAT!!!
These new owners are doing GREAT THINGS!
I don't want them to stop.
Even though I won't have the money to get everything, I am going to get what I can!
Estes has returned to what I remember them as a kid.
And I'm still a rocket kid at heart.
Keep it up Estes, your the GRRRRRR...EATEST!
 

dpower

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DON'T SAY THAT!!!
These new owners are doing GREAT THINGS!
I don't want them to stop.
Even though I won't have the money to get everything, I am going to get what I can!
Estes has returned to what I remember them as a kid.
And I'm still a rocket kid at heart.
Keep it up Estes, your the GRRRRRR...EATEST!
Of course! Maybe I should have added more winking emojis. 😉😉😉😉😉 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Banzai88

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Estes doesn’t sell a motor that can safely fly the MDRM. Unless they have a mad scientist developing some secret sauce high power BP formula it’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see big, heavy MPR/HPR kits from Estes again - the current PSII rockets that can fly on adapted 24mm BP motors looks like their plan for bigger rockets. Besides, why should they try to compete with all the other MPR/HPR companies in an area that’s not in their DNA or skill sets? Are the folks who regularly buy LOC, Madcow, Public Missiles, Sirius, Aerotech, Wildman, AMW, Performance Hobbies, etc rockets really going to buy enough big Estes rockets to make it a sustainable product for Estes?
An entire generation of BARs and L1s bought every Leviathan, Ventris, Argent, and 4" DRM that the could ship, as well as all the spare parts rockets that they sold direct.

The issue is that those rockets relied on rebranded SU AP motors that, in the rebranding, had some price point challenges and acted as a gateway to potentially wean the customer off of Estes direct supply chain.
At the decision point of "Renew and continue" or "Change direction", Estes changed direction in favor of only producing rockets for their BP motors.

To ask "Are the folks who regularly buy LOC, Madcow, Public Missiles, Sirius, Aerotech, Wildman, AMW, Performance Hobbies, etc rockets really going to buy enough big Estes rockets to make it a sustainable product for Estes"

The answer is, The fact that shelves are empty and that there was a HUGE purchasing binge when it became clear that the builder line of PSII kits was being discontinued in and of itself proves that the market is big enough and that folks will cross over to Estes.....if the product is there......and upon seeing the holes on the shelf where estes sure sellers used to reside, places like MadCow and Apogee stepped in and filled a market niche that Estes perfected, then abandoned.

That said, there is probably a point at which it crossed the Rubicon and Estes will have no future in that niche, unless they can come up with something iconic.....again.
 
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Scott_650

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The PSII builder kits were really good rockets. And if Estes can produce motors that would lift similar rockets again I’d say they’d probably make similar kits again. But let’s not let nostalgia color things, when the big PSII kits came out they didn’t sell in near the numbers that Estes parent company projected - that’s why we, rocketry hobby enthusiasts (as important to them as we are, we’re not Estes core market), spent several years buying out their stock at radically discounted prices. The reason you and I ended up with multiple Leviathans, Partizons and Ventrises (Ventri?) in our stashes is because Hobbico had a big pile of unsold kits so selling those kits at pennies on the dollar helped them buy some time before the bankruptcy. Of all the PSII kits I wish I’d grabbed a Nike Smoke before the supply ran out - but not enough to pay a premium for one now, there’re just too many other similar rockets out there for similar money that interest me. For me, I’d rather Estes be Estes and cook up stuff like the coming in 2021upsized Mars Snooper, Super Big Bertha, Protostar and the rereleased C5 motor rather than try to compete with LOC, Madcow, etc...
 
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