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New Estes 3” Der Big Red Max coming soon!!

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Ez2cDave

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The B14 and B8 motors required additional manufacturing processes which increased their production time. This resulted in higher costs to the hobbyist for a 'B' motor compared to a B4 or B6 motor. Sales of the motors were low resulting in their discontinuation.
In 1971, Estes B4 & B6 motors were sold, as a package of 3 motors, for $1.00 , , , Estes B14 motors were 3 motors for $1.10

1608928739880.png


B14 DATA.png


1968 B14 THRUST CURVE.jpg


B14_chart_ADJ-2.jpg
 

Brian

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I have a B4 motor from my grandpa is that rare or something? not used either...
 

K'Tesh

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Now this is an interesting comment from the website... emphasis mine...

Includes 29mm engine mount with no forward retainer ring allowing a wide variety of engine choices.
 

rharshberger

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Now this is an interesting comment from the website... emphasis mine...
Not really, the current Estes owners know rocketeers and they know what we are going to do anyways....why waste money on a $.02 component we would just toss in a box.
 

Scott_650

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Not really, the current Estes owners know rocketeers and they know what we are going to do anyways....why waste money on a $.02 component we would just toss in a box.
None of the three current PSII builder kit rockets have engine blocks so it’s not a big surprise the DBRM follows suite.
 

Rocketjunkie

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The B14 and B8 motors required additional manufacturing processes which increased their production time. This resulted in higher costs to the hobbyist for a 'B' motor compared to a B4 or B6 motor. Sales of the motors were low resulting in their discontinuation.
The B14 required an additional (dangerous) drilling step. It was replaced with the B8 which had a larger core in the mold. This was also used in the C5. They also had a larger nozzle so the sustain thrust on the C5 was lower. That's the reason for the the C5 designation. With the return of the C5, maybe the B8 will come back also.
 

K'Tesh

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I found something that is troubling... In looking at the specs, I spotted something about the decals... God I hope that's wrong, unless they're vinyl.



Recommended EnginesE16-4, F15-4
Projected Max Altitude1100 ft. (335 m)
Recovery System18 in. (45.7 cm) Parachute
Length29.9 in. (75.9 cm)
Diameter3 in. (76 mm)
Estimated Weight14.5 oz. (411 g)
Estimated Assembly Time2 Hours (painting and glue drying time not included)
Fin MaterialsLaser cut wood
Decal TypeSelf-stick
Launch SystemPorta-Pad E Launch Pad and Pro Series II Launch Controller
Launch Rod Size1/4"
Age RecommendationEstes Pro Series II rocket kits are recommended for boys and girls ages 18+ with adult supervision for those under 18, and rocketeers of all ages.
 

RobertH3

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If so, the Vendors will be busy. Max is a rocket that really benefits from Water Transfers and Good Vinyl.

Cheers / Robert
 

NOLA_BAR

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I found something that is troubling... In looking at the specs, I spotted something about the decals... God I hope that's wrong, unless they're vinyl.



Recommended EnginesE16-4, F15-4
Projected Max Altitude1100 ft. (335 m)
Recovery System18 in. (45.7 cm) Parachute
Length29.9 in. (75.9 cm)
Diameter3 in. (76 mm)
Estimated Weight14.5 oz. (411 g)
Estimated Assembly Time2 Hours (painting and glue drying time not included)
Fin MaterialsLaser cut wood
Decal TypeSelf-stick
Launch SystemPorta-Pad E Launch Pad and Pro Series II Launch Controller
Launch Rod Size1/4"
Age RecommendationEstes Pro Series II rocket kits are recommended for boys and girls ages 18+ with adult supervision for those under 18, and rocketeers of all ages.
Yuck! Also looks like an 18” plastic parachute. Bummer. Hopefully it will at least have the 💀 pattern.
 

Scott_650

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Yuck! Also looks like an 18” plastic parachute. Bummer. Hopefully it will at least have the 💀 pattern.
The description on Estes website specifically mentions the skull and bones chute. The nearly 15oz weight is interesting - that’s heavier than the Doorknob, a LOC Onyx, a North Coast Hobgoblin or an Aerotech Initiator.
 

RobertH3

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The parachute is probably a copy and paste error from the original Max description. At 15 oz, 24-30" para "sheet" is probably minimum. Hopefully a nylon Jolly Roger!

Cheers / Robert
 

Scott_650

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The parachute is probably a copy and paste error from the original Max description. At 15 oz, 24-30" para "sheet" is probably minimum. Hopefully a nylon Jolly Roger!

Cheers / Robert
Hmm...the description for the Doorknob lists an 18” nylon chute but from the accounts I’ve read and the parts bag picture on the website it’s a plastic chute. My Super Big Bertha came with a 24” plastic chute. The PSII E2X Majestic has an 18” nylon chute listed in the description - the other PSII nylon chutes are 24” and 30”, which are, respectively, what my Mammoth and Trajector came with. So I guess we’ll have to wait and see what’s in the box :cool:
 

Spitfire222

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Hmm...the description for the Doorknob lists an 18” nylon chute but from the accounts I’ve read and the parts bag picture on the website it’s a plastic chute. My Super Big Bertha came with a 24” plastic chute. The PSII E2X Majestic has an 18” nylon chute listed in the description - the other PSII nylon chutes are 24” and 30”, which are, respectively, what my Mammoth and Trajector came with. So I guess we’ll have to wait and see what’s in the box :cool:
The Doorknob has an 18" nylon parachute.

Self-stick decals are really a shame for a model like this, if they are the standard peel-and-stick and not some decent quality vinyl. The Doorknob came with some chrome vinyl strips, and with water-transfer decals, though to be fair they were quite small compared to the Der Red Max decals.
 

Scott_650

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The Doorknob has an 18" nylon parachute.

Self-stick decals are really a shame for a model like this, if they are the standard peel-and-stick and not some decent quality vinyl. The Doorknob came with some chrome vinyl strips, and with water-transfer decals, though to be fair they were quite small compared to the Der Red Max decals.
Ah, the Doorknob does, now, have a nylon chute! Excellent. The version Chris Michielssen built on his blog had a plastic chute and the Estes website shows a plastic chute but really good to know it’s not. Hopefully the DBRM has vinyl decals rather than standard peel-and-stick plastic.
 

Scott_650

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I searched and could not find any 3 in version of a Mean Machine rocket
K’Tesh is saying upsized 3” clones of the MM are now possible due to the new nose cone being produced for the 3” Max. Along with possible upsized 3” clones of other Estes kits that couldn’t be done without the new 3” Max nose cone. K’Tesh is a bit of a stickler about proper proportions and precise details as a scroll through his Open Rocket designs abundantly shows ;)

Though I do wonder how an 11 foot long Mega Mean Machine would fly...sounds like a session with Open Rocket needs to be done...
 
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dr wogz

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sad if they are peel & stick.

Although, I have has good results with some peel & stick decals on my R./C planes & "the Windex method"

Wet eh area with Windex.
Apply decal (cut to absolute size first!)
and adjust to final position
squeegee out the Windex.
let sit (let the Windex evaporate & sticker glue activate)

.
 

K'Tesh

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I searched and could not find any 3 in version of a Mean Machine rocket

K’Tesh is saying upsized 3” clones of the MM are now possible due to the new nose cone being produced for the 3” Max. Along with possible upsized 3” clones of other Estes kits that couldn’t be done without the new 3” Max nose cone. K’Tesh is a bit of a stickler about proper proportions and precise details as a scroll through his Open Rocket designs abundantly shows ;)

Though I do wonder how an 11 foot long Mega Mean Machine would fly...sounds like a session with Open Rocket needs to be done...
Scott is correct... With the new nosecone, a person can upscale a number of rockets that use the PNC-60AH or the PNC-55AO... Hmmm... I'm thinking a 3" Bandit would be fun... Nuts... That brings the number of the new kits I need to 8, unless they start selling that nosecone separately.
 

Scott_650

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Scott is correct... With the new nosecone, a person can upscale a number of rockets that use the PNC-60AH or the PNC-55AO... Hmmm... I'm thinking a 3" Bandit would be fun... Nuts... That brings the number of the new kits I need to 8, unless they start selling that nosecone separately.
A 50-ish inch long K-48/#1248 3” Bandit would be a fun MPR rocket - should fly great on a big F/small G on smaller fields since it would probably be a little lighter than an equivalent 3” LOC rocket.
 

Philip Tiberius D.

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If... and I say IF because I don’t know yet but is it possible to buy a Nylon parachute 🪂 with a ☠ on from some vendor?
 

tjgray693599

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Umm, surely someone can screen print that design onto a nylon chute!
I wonder if I could get my daughters to cut one with a Cricut?
 

tfrielin

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So to get back to the original question---Is tfgray correct that the new Der Red Max is still not available to order? I've asked my ususal, HobbyLink and have not heard back. I've got a few F-16s I'd love to use up on this kit if/when it's available...
 

Scott_650

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So to get back to the original question---Is tfgray correct that the new Der Red Max is still not available to order? I've asked my ususal, HobbyLink and have not heard back. I've got a few F-16s I'd love to use up on this kit if/when it's available...
The last couple of years new items have shown up first on the Estes website on the “Coming Soon” page (but not available for order), then when they go live for ordering they move to the “New” page, then, after some unknown timeframe or condition occurs, they start showing up at the online and brick-and-mortar retail level, then finally, on the discounter websites like Belleville Hobby and AC Supply. Last year with the release of the Skylab Saturn V and Saturn 1b that scenario didn’t follow the usual pattern, with seemingly random online retailers offering pre-orders, some discounters having the Saturns available before it went live on the Estes website, etc...

So long answer short at this time, 2:20PM EST, Monday January 18 2021 none of the usual sources for Estes rockets that I know of has the new #9721 PSII 3” Der Big Red Max available for order.
 

tfrielin

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The last couple of years new items have shown up first on the Estes website on the “Coming Soon” page (but not available for order), then when they go live for ordering they move to the “New” page, then, after some unknown timeframe or condition occurs, they start showing up at the online and brick-and-mortar retail level, then finally, on the discounter websites like Belleville Hobby and AC Supply. Last year with the release of the Skylab Saturn V and Saturn 1b that scenario didn’t follow the usual pattern, with seemingly random online retailers offering pre-orders, some discounters having the Saturns available before it went live on the Estes website, etc...

So long answer short at this time, 2:20PM EST, Monday January 18 2021 none of the usual sources for Estes rockets that I know of has the new #9721 PSII 3” Der Big Red Max available for order.
Thanks for that info, Scott. From what you're saying , my discount dealer HobbyLink, will be one of the last to get new kits like this? So, I should order direct from Estes for timely delivery come the release??

I don't mind paying more. But on the other hand, my flying field is my in-laws farm, three hours away and we're not going there to fly until we're all vaccinated.

So, I guess it's a race between my getting vaccinated versus the new Der Red Max makes it to market??!!!
 
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