EVENT NARAM-63

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I'm heading out on a 2-week NARAM+baseball roadtrip tomorrow. Starting in KC for the Royals, then over to STL for the Cards and finally down to Springfield. Probably won't be on the field much after the first weekend - we're going to poke around the Ozarks, raid the BassPro mothership, etc. This is likely my last NARAM now that they've decided to no longer have a sport range and I'm not doing LPR competition anymore. Hope to see a lot of you in the future at NSL, AirFest and LDRS!
 
caveduck said:
This is likely my last NARAM now that they've decided to no longer have a sport range and I'm not doing LPR competition anymore. Hope to see a lot of you in the future at NSL, AirFest and LDRS!
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Dave,

I believe that the NAR is making a crucial mistake by eliminating the Sport Range, at NARAM.

NARAM, in the 21st century, is doomed without the Sport Range. Typically, nowadays, NARAM only has 30 - 50 Competitors. With such small numbers, the eventual outcome looks inevitable.

I hope that it is simply a mistake and not being done intentionally by the NAR. In retrospect, when one considers the "death of the Pink Book", things start to favor the latter. I hope I am mistaken !

Dave F.
 
Where has it been said that there isn't a Sports Range at NARAM 63? It is on the website. I have texte Chad Ring about flying on Monday as I am a volunteer for the weekend's FAI Team fly off and the North Coast Cup.

Chas
 
There will be no Sport Range of any type at NARAM-64.
Not just "No HPR", no "Estes Alpha with an A8-3" type of Sport Range either.
Comment was this will make it easier to find more launch sites for a NARAM.
NARAM-64 will likely be held in Muncie, Indiana.

Sport Fliers make up the majority of fliers at NARAM and their registration $$$ are used to make up shortfalls in the Competition side of the event.
 
Buzzard said:
Where has it been said that there isn't a Sports Range at NARAM 63? It is on the website. I have texte Chad Ring about flying on Monday as I am a volunteer for the weekend's FAI Team fly off and the North Coast Cup.

Chas
Click to expand...
https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/1JUN2022-BoT-conference-call.pdf

QUOTE :

National Events

Ed said that there will be no Board meeting at NARAM since John will be out of the country. Lynn will run the NAR Town Hall in John’s absence. Ed reminded the Board that the second NSL will roll out in 2023 and that NARAM-64 will not have a sport range. NARAM will be a five-day competition-only launch, probably in Muncie, Indiana. Ed would like to have some time during the Town Hall to announce the changes in conjunction with Steve K. and Dan Wolf, Contest Board chair. Ed noted that separating NARAM from a major sport launch makes it easier to find NARAM sites, since no waiver is required forNARAM. Steve K. reminded the Board that the idea is to have one NSL on either side of the Mississippi River each year. Alamosa has already offered to host NSL West in 2023, 24, and 25.

END QUOTE :

Dave F.
 
Initiator001 said:
There will be no Sport Range of any type at NARAM-64.
Not just "No HPR", no "Estes Alpha with an A8-3" type of Sport Range either.
Comment was this will make it easier to find more launch sites for a NARAM.
NARAM-64 will likely be held in Muncie, Indiana.

Sport Fliers make up the majority of fliers at NARAM and their registration $$$ are used to make up shortfalls in the Competition side of the event.
Click to expand...
Thus, the decline and demise of NARAM, is on the horizon.

Dave F.
 
Last edited:
That's an interesting policy.. Now, I'm not 100% familiar here with bigger events, just been to a handful of club launches. "Sport Range" means some kind of free-for-all or anyone can register/fly even if they aren't part of the "main event?"
Am I understanding that correctly?
And these ranges provide extra funds to the competition/event, especially from those who can't knock off work for a week or two, so they might be there only one day?
And at 50 competitors, let's say 3 launches each (again don't have a clue in the world here, just guessing), pretty much a full day worth of flights.... I'd guess... if things are organized.
...
calculating
...
And you guys said it's pretty much free if someone wanted to just show up as a spectator?
I wonder if this is perhaps a shift to focus on drawing crowds and charging admission fees?

Or perhaps some utopian dream that they'll continue to have their sponsored events and just don't need any money from sport fliers, and they think the "competition" will do better because people who wish to fly are encouraged to sign up and pick an event.

All I know is, my earlier questions mostly stemmed from a lack of clear explaination of event proceedings anywhere online, where someone from the outside who has never been to one has no idea how things work, and that itself is a little exclusionary, imo. I like rocket stuffs, so I'll put in the extra effort to probe or just show up even if there's a chance I'll get turned around. More explaination for the average person who isn't going to rent out a hotel for the week might have been helpful.

It's hard to say where someone's (some group's) motives lie unless they make them clear and well written.
 
aerostadt said:
If altitude is a problem for finding launch sites because of the sports range, just reduce the altitude of the sports range.
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I don't think that altitude is the only problem . . . The field size and distance to occupied dwellings requirements increase as Total Impulse goes up, regardless of peak altitude.

Dave F.
 
samb said:
IDK, two national sport launches and one contest-only NARAM sounds like a plan. What’s the dealy-o ?
Click to expand...
NARAM, nowadays, typically has only 30-50 participants ( out of 8600 +/- active NAR members ), depending on location. Coupled with a Sport Range ( including HPR ), that attracts many more people. When a "NARAM hotel" is chosen, the discount on the rooms increases with a larger number of units being guaranteed, in advance. With a "Competition-only" NARAM, the room cost will be higher. Now, add in the high cost of gasoline and the effects on other prices, caused by inflation, and things only get worse, in terms of participation. That's the "dealy-o".

Dave F.
 
Ez2cDave said:
I don't think that altitude is the only problem . . . The field size and distance to occupied dwellings requirements increase as Total Impulse goes up, regardless of peak altitude.

Dave F.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. NAR competition flying doesn’t need near the field size required for launching bigger sport rockets. Having an east and west NSL and a separate NARAM means three major NAR events. Revitalizing NAR competition will take some serious thought and effort though - that’s going to be the sticky part and I’m not the guy to ask since the only connection I have to rocketry competition is as a spectator at NARAM and Pittsburgh Space Command’s launches.
 
It *would* be a great idea except that I believe the constituency is nowhere near balanced. My guess (just a guess mind you) is that the dual NSLs will see 150-200 people each, and a competition-only NARAM will draw fewer than 100 in a non-FAI year (there is evidence for that below). NARAM will fare better every other year when the FAI fly-offs happen; that should get it back up to around 130-140, but even in such years I think that dual NSLs will out-draw NARAM by 2:1 or more.

I had a quick look at the leaderboards tonight...a week before NARAM we have in 1/4A SD and A PD about 50-55 individuals and 15 teams. If you assume about 3 people per team, the total addressable market for NARAM competition is right around 100 people. Some of these people will not attend NARAM, while a few who did not post any NRC points during the year will compete at NARAM anyway. There also may be some event specialists that are not represented in the PD/SD count. Overall I think these factors will tilt somewhat in the direction of the people with NRC scores not attending NARAM, and so I'd expect to see 80-90 NRC contestants at the meet. The NARAM registration list (last updated July 2) has about 170 people, but this list includes the ~50 FAI competitors who seem to mostly not fly NRC, and a number of people that I know will be sport flyers only, so the numbers seem to square up OK.

At NARAM-61 I counted the actual results from the PD/SD events posted at the meet and found low-40s individuals and 13-14 teams in each, which makes the total number of NRC participants at NARAM somewhere around 90 with a 10% (caution: WAG) allowance for people who did not fly PD/SD. I'd be surprised if this year is much different.
 
Does 15 or 20 rocketeers (and the number of competitors keeps decreasing every year) constitute a national event? If we are to have 2 NSLs per year (which I think is a great idea), why wouldn't you attach NARAM to one of the NSLs, and alternate sides of the country every year.
 
turbofireball said:
Does 15 or 20 rocketeers (and the number of competitors keeps decreasing every year) constitute a national event? If we are to have 2 NSLs per year (which I think is a great idea), why wouldn't you attach NARAM to one of the NSLs, and alternate sides of the country every year.
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Whoa! Now that’s way too logical! 😆

Sounds like a perfect path forward to me - any site that can handle an NSL event can certainly handle competition flying.
 
The foundation for a national competition of any sort doesn't start at the national level, it starts at the root. Would be fairly easy (it would seem) to make an easily trackable competition schedule and gain entrants at every public launch nationwide. Anyone from TRA or NAR or perhaps even "backyard launches" that can be vetted somehow could form the bulk.
Entry fee per launch for a "recordable flight", $1/$5? Put it in a pot, either with the club/launchsite or in the pot for the overreaching comp. Money can be used to send each local winner to a state or national comp, or it can be added to a prize pool, or both.
Perhaps even just donated to a rocket related cause.
Or better, getting this sponsored from a true grass-roots level starting at local high schools or grade schools to get more people interested.
It's really not that hard to post validation for this kind of thing. ... Maybe I should start a thread based on this idea of just making a new LPR/MPR competition and see where it goes. hehe
 
Off Grid Gecko said:
The foundation for a national competition of any sort doesn't start at the national level, it starts at the root. Would be fairly easy (it would seem) to make an easily trackable competition schedule and gain entrants at every public launch nationwide. Anyone from TRA or NAR or perhaps even "backyard launches" that can be vetted somehow could form the bulk.
Entry fee per launch for a "recordable flight", $1/$5? Put it in a pot, either with the club/launchsite or in the pot for the overreaching comp. Money can be used to send each local winner to a state or national comp, or it can be added to a prize pool, or both.
Perhaps even just donated to a rocket related cause.
Or better, getting this sponsored from a true grass-roots level starting at local high schools or grade schools to get more people interested.
It's really not that hard to post validation for this kind of thing. ... Maybe I should start a thread based on this idea of just making a new LPR/MPR competition and see where it goes. hehe
Click to expand...

James Duffy said:
Competition rocketry has never been more popular:

https://rocketcontest.org
It just looks different.
Click to expand...

James said it better with as few words as possible - maybe NAR competition flying should look more like the current most popular competition rocketry in the US rather than the traditional events? Not that NAR competition should be only variations of egg lofting but based on cyclic goals that change every year. Or maybe go the total project route like the NASA Student Launch competition? (I’ll admit that requiring some type of active payload requirement could be problematic but it’s not a nonstarter as long as it’s kept simple and realistic.) The contest rules/goals could be announced for the following year‘s competition during NARCON which would give competitors over a year to design, build, test and compete with iterations of their designs at preliminary events like Gecko posted culminating at the late summer NARAM attached to alternating east/west NSLs.

A new contest goal every competition cycle could keep things fresh though at the expense of the winners being possible record holders. Unless the NAR keeps some of the traditional events along with a new TARC-style cyclic event. Or maybe a new event category using COTS kits or RTF rockets - sort of like the motosports competitions using identical vehicles the racers get assigned by the draw.
 
samb said:
IDK, two national sport launches and one contest-only NARAM sounds like a plan. What’s the dealy-o ?
Click to expand...

One, this change in what a NARAM encompasses was decided by a small, secret 'cabal' of NAR competition members without any input from the NAR general membership.

Two, the NARAM is promoted as the NAR's Premier annual event. Under this new plan over 90% of NAR members are disenfranchised from attending a NARAM.

Three, there are more HPR manufacturers/vendors then traditional model rocketry suppliers. If you eliminate the Sport Range the NAR is less likely to get donors/sponsors for NARAM if the products of these manufacturers are not allowed to be flown at NARAMs.

Four, five years ago a secret, competition only group of NAR members came up with this 'NRC' concept in order to 'save' NAR competition rocketry. Since then no specific data/information has been released to the general NAR membership about how well this new concept has worked out.

The NAR Leadership will probably not recognize there is a problem until the membership numbers start dropping.
 
Initiator001 said:
One, this change in what a NARAM encompasses was decided by a small, secret 'cabal' of NAR competition members without any input from the NAR general membership.

Two, the NARAM is promoted as the NAR's Premier annual event. Under this new plan over 90% of NAR members are disenfranchised from attending a NARAM.

Three, there are more HPR manufacturers/vendors then traditional model rocketry suppliers. If you eliminate the Sport Range the NAR is less likely to get donors/sponsors for NARAM if the products of these manufacturers are not allowed to be flown at NARAMs.

Four, five years ago a secret, competition only group of NAR members came up with this 'NRC' concept in order to 'save' NAR competition rocketry. Since then no specific data/information has been released to the general NAR membership about how well this new concept has worked out.

The NAR Leadership will probably not recognize there is a problem until the membership numbers start dropping.
Click to expand...

"disenfranchised" is too gentle for what I am feeling right now.
 

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