Materials question: white cardstock Estes uses in some kits, and the black fiber that BMS makes centering rings from

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neil_w

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Sorry I know this has been asked before but I had no luck searching. Exactly what are the very stiff glossy cardstock Estes uses for fins and accessories in some kits, and the black fiber stuff that is used for centering rings? Can it be purchased somewhere, and if so under what name(s)? I've come up empty so far.
 

neil_w

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Giving this a bump. What exactly is the very heavy white cardboard Estes uses in its kits for centering rings and such?
 

shockie

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it could be #100-110 cardstock with a glossy coating on either one of two sides. You can get it plain, no coating or with gloss coating.
 
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kuririn

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I think it's thicker and heavier than 110# cardstock, but don't know what it's called.
 

neil_w

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110 lb cardstock is flimsy paper compared to the Estes stuff. I just measured it at .040" thick.
 

mbeels

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I think it is similar to the stuff that Apogee makes their Christmas tree ornaments and display stands out of, but I don't know what it is either.

Based on their product description, if it is 0.05" thick, I'd guess it is 640 gsm cardstock (or 236 lb).

1620863815708.png
 
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hcmbanjo

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Go to a frame shop and ask if they have any scrap mat board.
These are the leftover pieces used to outline framed art.
You can usually buy it cheap. It'll be close to the .050" thickness of the Estes centering ring and Letramax material.
 

kuririn

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neil_w

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One big difference is that mat board *usually* has a very, um, "matte" finish; the Estes stuff is glossier. Could have an impact if using it for an external component that requires finishing, but I don't know.

Based on the piece of mat board that I have in the house, I can't imagine using it for fin stock. Way too flimsy. It is possible there are heavier varieties than what I have.
 

kuririn

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One big difference is that mat board *usually* has a very, um, "matte" finish;
😁
the Estes stuff is glossier. Could have an impact if using it for an external component that requires finishing, but I don't know.
If you primer it anyway shouldn't make a difference.
Based on the piece of mat board that I have in the house, I can't imagine using it for fin stock. Way too flimsy. It is possible there are heavier varieties than what I have.
The Amazon stuff I looked at is 1/16" thick. Same as some Semroc centering rings I have. Should be good for centering rings and fin stock for lpr birds. Wouldn't try it for mpr.
Will know more once I get the stuff.
 

mbeels

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I just went down some deep rabbit holes involving cardstock, paper board, cover board, pts, calipers, and I still have no idea. Paper is a whole 'nother world.
 

Bluegrass Rocket

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Mat board is what most smaller companies use. It’s 50 thousandths thick. Crescent brand is good. Estes uses something that I’m sure is cheaper than mat board. It falls into the paper board category and I’m sure they spec it and have it made for them.
 

Bluegrass Rocket

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And if there is a Michaels near you, you can get a 24”x36” sheet of white over white for 8 bucks. Plus you can get 20% off that.
 

kuririn

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Looks like my Amazon order will be coming in tomorrow.
I'll do a quick easy build and let you know the verdict.
10 5X7" mat boards for $8, so 80 cents a sheet.
Amazon.com: Mat Board Center, Pack of 10, 5x7 Uncut White Color Mats - Acid Free, 4-ply Thickness, White Core - for Pictures, Photos, Framing - Great for DIY Projects or Unique Picture Sizes: Arts, Crafts & Sewing
Prime membership, so free delivery.
BTW this is why I'm leaning now towards using fiber instead of balsa:
0514211706[1].jpg

0514211707[1].jpg

Two recent builds using fiber fins.
Estes Viking and Xtreme.
Just primer, sand and paint for a glassy finish.
No way I could get that kind of finish with balsa without multiple cycles of filling and sanding.
Laters.
 

kuririn

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Mat boards came in today.
0515211543[1].jpg

0515211543a[1].jpg

Now to build something.
 

neil_w

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Can you weigh one of those sheets? Also, is that the .050” stuff?
 

kuririn

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Can you weigh one of those sheets? Also, is that the .050” stuff?
0.641 oz.
5" X 7".
Packaging doesn't say the thickness but the Amazon webpage lists it at 1/16" thick.
Eyeballing it with 1/16" thick balsa stock they look the same thickness.
Feels sturdy, I'm gonna try cutting some fins and centering rings and see if there are any issues.
Laters.
 

heada

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Laser cut 1/16" chip board discs. Caleb has some predefined sizes and holes but he can do custom sizes. He has 1/8" thick as well. If you scratch build LPR, you can't beat it.
 

kuririn

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I cut some fins (Estes DOM #37 ASP) from the mat board.
Cuts easily and cleanly. And no worries about lining up the grain.
Also tried sanding the square edge of the remnant board. I was concerned about the plies delaminating while sanding. No issues there. Don't know if you can see the clean tapered edge in the pic below. (Left side square, right side tapered).
Next: Centering rings.
0517210717[1].jpg0517210840a[1].jpg0517210842[1].jpg
Laters.
 

Sooner Boomer

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Hobby Lobby carries matte board packs in 3x5, 5x7, and other sizes. Fairly cheap. The bad thing is that it's not all white. No big deal if you're using it for centering rings, but a bit of extra work if you're using it for fins. Or maybe not (but some are not the same color on both sides).
 

kuririn

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Didn't measure, just cut some random circles in the board using an Olfa circle cutter.
Looks like commercial centering rings, If I do say so myself.
No delamination from the cut. Might delaminate if I sand them.
But even the commercial ones do that.
0517210957[1].jpg0517210958[1].jpg0517211000a[1].jpg
Next: Primer/paint
 

kuririn

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Primered, sanded, basecoated.
Still need to mask off the black quadrants but the point of this exercise is to see what kind of finish the mat board fins takes. To my eye there is no difference between this and the Estes fiber fins. Very smooth and glassy.
I think I'll be using these more instead of balsa in my scratchers and clones.
Laters.
0519210819[1].jpg
 
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