Bigger Daddy / accidental BMS school rocket clone

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novahobbies

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What do you do if you have spare parts from a Big Daddy that got raided to become something else, and a spare bit of 3" tube laying around?
Throw together a 4fnc afternoon project, naturally! The first hurdle had to do with the nose cone. I've already used the BD nose, and I didn't feel like ordering one. But I have a 3d printer, and a spare old roll of grey PLA, and lo&behold someone has uploaded a BD nose cone to Thingiverse. So, Fippity Jippity and hello nose! Needs sanding obviously:
20240208_072217.jpg

The assembled parts. The body tube isn't pre-cut for fin slots, and I thought long and hard about cutting the tabs off the balsa fins.
20240208_072425.jpg

But in the end I decided I'd rather keep the TTW fins. I might send this on something bigger than the Estes E12 after all. So, quick trip to payload bay online for a fin guide.....which DID NOT FIT, thanks to my dumb printer refusing to print PDFs even when full size is checked (I then went old school with just folding the paper strip I used for wrapping), and we got to cutting.
20240210_210511.jpg20240210_210504.jpg

Everything fit lovely!
20240210_210853.jpg

I briefly considered beefing this up to a 29mm motor mount, but discarded the idea because the whole point of this project was to use up the leftover parts that were laying around. So, 24mm motor mount, fiber CRs, all that cheap stuff that still gets the job done. Built the MM using titebond, but reinforced the rings by drizzling 5 minute epoxy the inside of the tube so (hopefully) they won't blow out if I put a stronger E in there above the Estes BP motors. I also discarded the rubber band shock cord only because I also had a spare bit of the "Estes pro" woven elastic band that was a bit longer and will last a little while longer than the kit band. I didn't go Kevlar because to be SUPER honest I did not think about using it until after the motor mount was built and installed already. Oops. Well, I did say I wanted to use spare parts, after all!

And here's where it stands as of this morning. I taped up the fins in prep for jb weld fillets when I get home tonight. I have more sanding to do on the nose, but most of the warts (I was trying vase mode for the first time) are all knocked down here.
20240212_080238.jpg

So. Stretched Daddy? Big Granddaddy? Mac Daddy? I don't know what to name it yet, but I'm sure I'll come up with something. I learned that Bigger Daddy is technically taken by an OOP 4" fiberglass upscale model, so that's out.
The funny thing is, as I was looking at the profile, I realized it was mighty familiar. At 31.75" tall, it's got a few inches on but is otherwise darn near identical to the 3" BMS School Rocket! I didn't set out to make a BMS clone, but apparently I kinda-sorta DID. Well, if you're going to copy, make sure you copy from the best!

Fillets down tonight, and maybe start some CWF to fill the rest of the fins, and we'll see where we git with this. Smaller than a Leviathan, bigger than the BD, but with a 24mm motor mount it ought to be a nice low and slow park flier that should be fun to send up.
 
Nice work! That'll be fun on some 24/40 reloads and bigger Q-Jets. Nothing wrong with 24mm mount if you aren't out for altitude.
Yep!! Only drawback, is I used the stupid motor block. I think the 24/40 would fit, but the 24/60 is out. I didn't think of that until after the MM was glued in. But honestly? How many times would I be doing something bigger than an E20 or 30....

Heh. Just realized there were a couple F motors in the 24mm range. HMM!! Now I'm interested! ;-)
 
Yep!! Only drawback, is I used the stupid motor block. I think the 24/40 would fit, but the 24/60 is out. I didn't think of that until after the MM was glued in. But honestly? How many times would I be doing something bigger than an E20 or 30....

Heh. Just realized there were a couple F motors in the 24mm range. HMM!! Now I'm interested! ;-)

I think you will enjoy the F24 and F39!
 
I think you will enjoy the F24 and F39!
I haven't jumped into the reloads yet, but this might change my mind. I've been a little cautious about it, and the initial outlay for the casing. Which I know is dumb, but there's the truth of it.
 
Yep!! Only drawback, is I used the stupid motor block. I think the 24/40 would fit, but the 24/60 is out. I didn't think of that until after the MM was glued in. But honestly? How many times would I be doing something bigger than an E20 or 30....

Heh. Just realized there were a couple F motors in the 24mm range. HMM!! Now I'm interested! ;-)
Not terribly hard to drill out that motor block. I’ve pretty much stopped using them on any rocket with a threaded style retainer.
 
I did the fillets tonight after all the housework was done. These are deliberately small, more decorative than functional, but they still do serve a structural purpose even if it's a small one. My goal was to give it the strength to handle small midpower motors but not add too much weight. I think I succeeded.
20240212_231704.jpg

And, tape off:
20240212_232421.jpg

I think the next time I make fillets, I'm going to scrape the epoxy into a disposable syringe and apply it that way. I tend to waste a lot by just slathering it against the joint. Lots of waste on the tape after I smooth the fillet down.
That being said, I'm very happy with these fillets. This will do just fine. Time to seal the rest of the fins tomorrow!
 
I did the fillets tonight after all the housework was done. These are deliberately small, more decorative than functional, but they still do serve a structural purpose even if it's a small one. My goal was to give it the strength to handle small midpower motors but not add too much weight. I think I succeeded.
View attachment 630235

And, tape off:
View attachment 630236

I think the next time I make fillets, I'm going to scrape the epoxy into a disposable syringe and apply it that way. I tend to waste a lot by just slathering it against the joint. Lots of waste on the tape after I smooth the fillet down.
That being said, I'm very happy with these fillets. This will do just fine. Time to seal the rest of the fins tomorrow!

Nice job. Looks good. With the fins being Balsa they will become the failure point way before the joints fail. Stretch it a little more and you have a Leviathan.

I've flown a BD that I increased to 29mm on an F67. Only changes I made were a plywood upper ring and coated the balsa fins in epoxy for some additional strength. It's flown several times without any issues.
 
Looks great, I have used epoxy in a syringe it works great!
Quick question, with the mods, what about the CG, any thoughts about adding weight to the nose?
 
Looks great, I have used epoxy in a syringe it works great!
Quick question, with the mods, what about the CG, any thoughts about adding weight to the nose?
I haven't done anything with this lately, but I'll absolutely be testing CG before she goes up. TBH I am not expecting to need any. CG will have naturally been pushed up with the longer Body, and the 3d printed nose cone is heavier than the OG nose. So I doubt it will be necessary.
 
I haven't done anything with this lately, but I'll absolutely be testing CG before she goes up. TBH I am not expecting to need any. CG will have naturally been pushed up with the longer Body, and the 3d printed nose cone is heavier than the OG nose. So I doubt it will be necessary.
Concur. It mind-sims well. The not exactly squatty body but pleasantly plump figure won’t hurt either.
 
Concur. It mind-sims well. The not exactly squatty body but pleasantly plump figure won’t hurt either.
Never really quantified it as "mind sim," but....yeah. Glad I'm not the only one who starts with the Mk I eyeball and a little brain/gut mental math.
Still probably wouldn't want to trust it without some hard data, tho.
 
https://www.thrustcurve.org/

Can probably do that,

with OpenRocket, RockSim, or Swing Tests being other options.

My thinking is that if you have a rocket design that is known stable, your modifications consist only of making it LONGER and nose cone HEAVIER, then as long as Thrust Curve with your actual motor choice and pad weight says you get off the selected rod or rail length with adequate velocity, you should be good to go.

seems vast majority of Estes rockets fly well on recommended motors. They had a few that tried to do a bit too much with the available max 18 mm motor the C6-3 (now at least partially remedied by re-release of C5-3.)
 
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