Looking for a good kit for Jr. L1

[Area66]

that is a very good deal I must say, but the 3G reload case only has 2 H reloads, the 29/180 has 3, and the 240 has 5 more, granted those cases are more expensive, but with the adapter it could be feasible. I do really like the lower cost of the cases though.

I count 20-30 reloads that fit that casing if you use the spacer, including few G

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/content/cesaroni-cti-motor-orders

Don't forget, the AT adaptor set is $50. If you get just the 180 case, no closures, it's $27 or so. I'd get a full set 240 case and just the 180 casing, and call it a day.

+ the delay drill tool ( all true you have way to turn around it )

 

[DizWolf]

I count 20-30 reloads that fit that casing if you use the spacer, including few G

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/content/cesaroni-cti-motor-orders hjk


+ the delay drill tool ( all true you have way to turn around it )

Very true. I did my cert on a CTI H 133 Blue Streak in a tank of a rocket built out of 2.6" blue tube, clocking in around 40oz. There are a ton Of fun motors for that case, regardless of being G.
I solved this dilemma by buying many cases of both brands over the past two years before I finally did my cert flight.

The cti cert special is great. AT makes a great case and its cool to have to build the motors. Can't go wrong in either direction.

 

[qquake2k]

I've used CTI motors a couple of times with spacers. I've used AT motors a few times with spacers. I'd have to say CTI spacers are far easier to use. I bought one of the AT 38mm Specials a couple of years ago, which came with a 38/360 case, aft closure, floating forward closure, and two spacers. But using the floating forward closure is a bit fiddly. You have to make sure the delay grain is in tight so the black powder doesn't fall through the hole. Then you have to get it down into the case without the o-ring moving. I've been successful, but I prefer using the different cases with the standard forward closure. I have since bought 38/120 and 38/240 cases and am much happier using them.

 

[nute]

I count 20-30 reloads that fit that casing if you use the spacer, including few G

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/content/cesaroni-cti-motor-orders

There are quite a few loads, many more than I originally realized. I actually wasn't thinking of non HPR applications at the time. it would be a good case to have, but I probably wouldn't be able to use it as much as I would an Aerotech case because of the higher cost of reloads. Aerotech doesn't have many smaller sparky motors, just the G75, but it looks like CTI has some 2, or 3 grain skidmarks. quite impressive!
I just thought of something, if I purchase a hardware set for a 29/180 for example, can I use those closures on a 29/240, or other 29mm HP case?

 

[Area66]

this is only a personal comment not a reference

for the 29mm reload I use mainly only Aerotech, because

1- Aerotech reloads are cheaper
2- the Aerotech dealer give a discount, CTI dealer, none (I’m in Canada)
3- Shipping cost me $ 15 less with the Aerotech dealer

at the end we talk half the price if my memory serve me well , and I never use my spacers as I have all the casings.

for the 38mm, AT, I don,t trust the plastic closure of CTI
for the 54mm, CTI, they are about the same price, free shipping at launch and the CTI dealer have them in stock , AT are on special order, ( for now )

 

[nute]

I've used CTI motors a couple of times with spacers. I've used AT motors a few times with spacers. I'd have to say CTI spacers are far easier to use. I bought one of the AT 38mm Specials a couple of years ago, which came with a 38/360 case, aft closure, floating forward closure, and two spacers. But using the floating forward closure is a bit fiddly. You have to make sure the delay grain is in tight so the black powder doesn't fall through the hole. Then you have to get it down into the case without the o-ring moving. I've been successful, but I prefer using the different cases with the standard forward closure. I have since bought 38/120 and 38/240 cases and am much happier using them.

I hadn't thought of ease of use, That is something I'll have to consider. however, I technically won't have to worry about that for another 4 years, since someone else has to assemble the motor:neener:. that said, it is good to hear from someone with first hand experience, as it does sound rather complex.

 

[Area66]

...... has to assemble the motor:neener:. .

this is the fun part , I like to assemble motors, I even like to clean them if I'm not in an hurry to reuse the case. I found it relaxing to clean a motors, you sit and talk to others doing so.

 

[AlexK]

I hadn't thought of ease of use, That is something I'll have to consider. however, I technically won't have to worry about that for another 4 years, since someone else has to assemble the motor:neener:. that said, it is good to hear from someone with first hand experience, as it does sound rather complex.

Don't worry, even if someone else assembles an AT motor for you, I'm sure you'll get the 'privilege' of cleaning it afterwards.

 

[chuck5395]

Not to be contradicting the good Captain but.... I have flown the AT spacer system from my first day of high power and never had an issue putting them together. My first HPR was a single grain 38mm AT "G" motor in the 38/360 38mm special. I then recycled the hole deal (rocket and all) and flew it on a two grain "H" for my L1 flight. I have a few dozen flights using the spacer system and actually love it. I now own the same system for 54mm and while only having done a couple flights with it, I have had no difficulty at all using them. UMMV.

 

[nute]

this is the fun part , I like to assemble motors, I even like to clean them if I'm not in an hurry to reuse the case. I found it relaxing to clean a motors, you sit and talk to others doing so.

I agree entirely, I was just trying (clearly not very well) to be funny, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

[nute]

Don't worry, even if someone else assembles an AT motor for you, I'm sure you'll get the 'privilege' of cleaning it afterwards.

But of course!

 

[1tree]

At the end of the day all you are getting are opinions. I decided on 29mm AT for mine. I figure that the rocket will be flown plenty and will go plenty high on 29mm. I will be able to easily place my rocket over a mile high and yet still launch on the low power field. In my case my rocket sims to about 2600 for my cert.

Then again the deal was sealed when a club member offered me a case and reload together for $30. I have yet to fly, but wife bought me a Wildchild. Said rocket will exceed a mile on an 29mm H. So I should be able to fly it low or high.

At the end, do what YOU want (as long as that is safe).

 

[DizWolf]

The 240 case also uses a forward seal disc. Should come with the motor set.

 

[qquake2k]

I hadn't thought of ease of use, That is something I'll have to consider. however, I technically won't have to worry about that for another 4 years, since someone else has to assemble the motor:neener:. that said, it is good to hear from someone with first hand experience, as it does sound rather complex.

I wouldn't call it "complex", just "fiddly". Like I said I haven't had any problems using the spacers, I just prefer the simplicity of using individual cases.

There are quite a few loads, many more than I originally realized. I actually wasn't thinking of non HPR applications at the time. it would be a good case to have, but I probably wouldn't be able to use it as much as I would an Aerotech case because of the higher cost of reloads. Aerotech doesn't have many smaller sparky motors, just the G75, but it looks like CTI has some 2, or 3 grain skidmarks. quite impressive!
I just thought of something, if I purchase a hardware set for a 29/180 for example, can I use those closures on a 29/240, or other 29mm HP case?

Yes, I own a set of closures, and 29/120 and 29/180 cases. I also have two sets of closures, and 38/120, 38/240, 38/360, and 38/720 cases.

Not to be contradicting the good Captain but.... I have flown the AT spacer system from my first day of high power and never had an issue putting them together. My first HPR was a single grain 38mm AT "G" motor in the 38/360 38mm special. I then recycled the hole deal (rocket and all) and flew it on a two grain "H" for my L1 flight. I have a few dozen flights using the spacer system and actually love it. I now own the same system for 54mm and while only having done a couple flights with it, I have had no difficulty at all using them. UMMV.

I think it's a matter of personal preference. I will say it's nice with motors you don't fly often.

 

[CarVac]

The new RMS-EZ should make it, well, easier to deal with the grain spacer system for AT.

 

[nute]

I wouldn't call it "complex", just "fiddly". Like I said I haven't had any problems using the spacers, I just prefer the simplicity of using individual cases.

I get that it's easier using multiple cases, that makes sense, but since I'm on a budget, grain adapters might be the way to go. that said, they're not that much cheaper than the 240 casing from some places.

 

[chuck5395]

I get that it's easier using multiple cases, that makes sense, but since I'm on a budget, grain adapters might be the way to go.

And that is the truth. Do what works best for you.

 

[nute]

And that is the truth. Do what works best for you.

I think that does work best for my budget at the time. does anyone have any thoughts on the 29/360 casing? is it worth the extra money to be able to fly 2 extra loads?

 

[DizWolf]

I think that does work best for my budget at the time. does anyone have any thoughts on the 29/360 casing? is it worth the extra money to be able to fly 2 extra loads?

That's something we can't tell you, but you'll know after flying a few 240 loads. (don't forget the seal disc if you get a complete 180, and then a 240 case)

Some older closures for 120/180/240 cases have a smaller hole than the 360. It appears the new rousetech's all have the 360 size closure. Only an issue if you buy used. The smaller holed one I got on an old Dr.Rockets 180 case

 

[Area66]

I think that does work best for my budget at the time. does anyone have any thoughts on the 29/360 casing? is it worth the extra money to be able to fly 2 extra loads?

with a 29/360 you can only make a 240 with the 2 spacers, so you will not have G reloads.

 

[nute]

with a 29/360 you can only make a 240 with the 2 spacers, so you will not have G reloads.

Really? Apogee website says it comes with three and all three can be used?https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/AeroTech_Accessories/AeroTech_29mm_Reload_Adapter_System
is Apogee wrong?

 

[Handeman]

Really? Apogee website says it comes with three and all three can be used?https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/AeroTech_Accessories/AeroTech_29mm_Reload_Adapter_System
is Apogee wrong?

I believe you can use all three, just not at the same time. That is sort of like the CTI xl cases. You can use a single xl spacer to fly a 6 grain, or a xl and a standard spacer to fly a 5 grain, but you can't use the xl and two standard spacers to load a 4 grain.

 

[CarVac]

I believe you can use all three, just not at the same time. That is sort of like the CTI xl cases. You can use a single xl spacer to fly a 6 grain, or a xl and a standard spacer to fly a 5 grain, but you can't use the xl and two standard spacers to load a 4 grain.

Slight correction: the xl spacer, if present (not in 29) is used in addition to either one or two regular spacers. it makes up the more-than-one-grain-length difference between 6g and 6gxl sizes.

 

[Area66]

I believe you can use all three, just not at the same time. That is sort of like the CTI xl cases. You can use a single xl spacer to fly a 6 grain, or a xl and a standard spacer to fly a 5 grain, but you can't use the xl and two standard spacers to load a 4 grain.

I read again the instruction from Aerotech , not Apogee

AeroTech is recommending a maximum of two case spacers be installed in a particular motor for ease of assembly, but there is no technical reason why a larger number of spacers could not be used.

the confusion come from the fact that CTI recommend just 2.

Honestly I have hard time to fallow, he said he has a small budget and he go for the most expensive motor and he add to the price the floating kit. If it was me I will go with the CTI starter kit at $ 48 or the 29/180, you can always purchase casing later.

 

[JDcluster]

I'd stay away from the FG rockets for now as; they require more prep to glue and different adhesives.
Loc makes some nice kits..... Their Forte and Caliber ISP is are great kits.
I flew my Caliber ISP at Radical Rocketeers a few months back on an H400 to 1,500 ft.
It was fully glassed and has about 20 flights on it.

PS: more flying opportunities might become available this fall
Stay tuned!

JD

Hey all,
I've been flying rockets for a while now, and have become pretty comfortable with MPR and, with some encouraging from members of my local club, have decided to attempt my Jr. L1 flight sometime in the near future. I have been searching, but have had difficulty finding a good kit to suit my needs:

• It isn't real important to me if FG or not, if I can fly H's in a paper tube or something similar it's fine with me
• something that won't fly much higher than than 2500 or 2750 ft. on an H128 or similar motor- being a Jr L1 attempt I can't use dual deploy.
• not a necessity, but a larger rocket would be preferable. that kinda goes along with needing a heavier rocket to keep it lower.
• most of all it must have a 29mm motor mount. I'm 14, don't have a job, and will be starting High school on the 9th. price is a big deal and I just can't afford the larger motors or rockets that will take those motors.

At the moment the Formula 54 by rocketry warehouse looks to be the best option. all fiberglass, 29mm motor mount for $60. the only problem is that it might fly a bit high for me- 3100 ft. on an H128, and it's small so it will be more difficult to see.

 

[Handeman]

Slight correction: the xl spacer, if present (not in 29) is used in addition to either one or two regular spacers. it makes up the more-than-one-grain-length difference between 6g and 6gxl sizes.

Here is the CTI instruction https://www.pro38.com/pdfs/Pro54_Case_Spacer.pdf The xl spacer is to be used with one regular spacer, not two. You can use a maximum of two spacers in a case, two standard, or one xl and one standard. The use of a xl spacer and two standard spacers is not to be done.

 

[CarVac]

Here is the CTI instruction https://www.pro38.com/pdfs/Pro54_Case_Spacer.pdf The xl spacer is to be used with one regular spacer, not two. You can use a maximum of two spacers in a case, two standard, or one xl and one standard. The use of a xl spacer and two standard spacers is not to be done.

I see, that's different from 38mm where the XL spacer is a shorter ring that is added in conjunction with a normal spacer to bring a 6XL to a 6G.

 

[Handeman]

I read again the instruction from Aerotech , not Apogee

AeroTech is recommending a maximum of two case spacers be installed in a particular motor for ease of assembly, but there is no technical reason why a larger number of spacers could not be used.

the confusion come from the fact that CTI recommend just 2.

Honestly I have hard time to fallow, he said he has a small budget and he go for the most expensive motor and he add to the price the floating kit. If it was me I will go with the CTI starter kit at $ 48 or the 29/180, you can always purchase casing later.

I understand what you're saying. The CTI cases are much cheaper then the AT cases. What he is looking at is the reloads in the smaller sizes like 29mm are more expensive for CTI then AT. If you fly enough motors, you'll be money ahead flying AT. Of course there are a lot more factors involved then just the cost of reload kits.

 

[Area66]

I understand what you're saying. The CTI cases are much cheaper then the AT cases. What he is looking at is the reloads in the smaller sizes like 29mm are more expensive for CTI then AT. If you fly enough motors, you'll be money ahead flying AT. Of course there are a lot more factors involved then just the cost of reload kits.

this is why I also suggest a 29/180 ( it's an AT ) it as a nice G75 reload.

 

[nute]

this is why I also suggest a 29/180 ( it's an AT ) it as a nice G75 reload.

I think you're right. The 180 case is probably at least enough for me for a while. I was just looking at all my options.