How to start?

[katinthebox]

I've been eyeing mid power for some time, but one thing that always daunts me with first attempts is "What would I absolutely know not to do if I'd done this even once already?"
So, for example, I can do a decent job on any LPR using a sharp knife, fine grit sandpaper, and my own personal "right" glue, wood filler, and paint schemes.

What do I not have? What don't I know how to do? Is it just a question of more fiddly assembly requirements- Spitfire with your "perfectly float this 1mm thick paperboard circle halfway into a tube until the glue sets," I'm looking at you... Should I learn how to solder? Should I become comfortable with adhesives that could adhere to me more quickly and permanently than CA? Do I need something that can cut through more than 3/8" basswood? Did I mention I have a "bit" of a hand tremor?

 

[tsmith1315]

Sounds like you wouldn’t have any trouble at all.

Like low power, mid and high power can be made very simply or very complex. Fiddly isn’t a requirement anymore than in model rocketry.

1/8” plywood is strong enough for centering rings and fins, mid power and above, unless you explore extremes.

 

[katinthebox]

Thank you! Did I mention the hand tremor? I'm on my phone and hit post by mistake halfway through the last sentence, caught it within 30 seconds and immediately edited to finish my thought.... Never noticed how I inadvertently unselected the thread title before inadvertently hitting the post button!

 

[tsmith1315]

I think it's easier in many ways to work with larger airframes and larger parts. I can get my hand a foot or more into a 3" tube.

It does take a larger quantity of glue, sanding, primer, paint, etc. But small dimensional errors are less critical compared to the tube sizes.

I hate posting from a phone...

 

[katinthebox]

As long as this isn't a question of "purchase an expensive experience, maybe fail" + "Oh and also purchase new stuff to do the same things you already do, but bigger!"

 

[Hobie1dog]

mid power isn't any more difficult, just some stronger materials, no soldering either.

 

[tsmith1315]

It shouldn’t be. If you’re using a kit, you can probably stick with tools and supplies you’re using now. No more risky than an Estes LPR kit, but it is somewhat more expensive.

I build Aerotech’s kits with medium CA. Fins and fin mount system are sturdy plastic, made to lock together easily, and CA is recommended.

LOC Park Flyers, and most other cardboard kits are the same as a low power kit, only a little bigger. Most are TTW fins, but so are many LPR kits now. Wood glue is fine, except for couplers.

Just stay away from fiberglass kits and kits with electronic bays or such already included and you’ll be golden.

 

[waltr]

Yep, what other said, no harder than LPR.
LOC kits from their Park fliers up and great and wood glue works fine.
Estes makes some MPR kits and check the 3" School Rocket kit from Balsa Machining.

This is also when you start using composite motors instead of BP. Lots of single use available from Quest D's to Aerotech G's.

 

[Pinetree]

The Secretary of our radio controlled airplane club is 79 years old, his hands shake like you wouldn't believe and he does just fine.

Once you build a few Estes (or whatever) kits, you got a feel for how they're constructed and from there the rockets just get bigger.


I personally think that patience is a big part of it, whether allowing glue time to set up or paint to dry, taking your time will usually yield better results.

Above all, it's a hobby, so have fun with it.

 

[katinthebox]

The Secretary of our radio controlled airplane club is 79 years old, his hands shake like you wouldn't believe and he does just fine.

Once you build a few Estes (or whatever) kits, you got a feel for how they're constructed and from there the rockets just get bigger.


I personally think that patience is a big part of it, whether allowing glue time to set up or paint to dry, taking your time will usually yield better results.

Above all, it's a hobby, so have fun with it.

Oh I worked out a dental floss + 0.25" tamiya tape solution so I could nudge that paperboard into place and then patiently wait until the glue was dry enough to pull out the tape without displacing anything structural.

 

[Raythain]

Echoing what everyone else has said. MPR is just LPR but bigger.

Only things that might be new at MPR are TTW (through the wall) fins and epoxy. If you want a really gentle entry, get an Estes Star Orbiter. Sub $30, and you get a simple 3FNC primer on what a basic MPR bird is like.

 

[RiffD]

Just joined the MPR club this summer so I know where you're coming from. I went with an Estes kit (Big Der Red Max) so that I had the familiar Estes instructions to work through, found a really good YT video on constructing it, and rolled along. Not much different in the end than a LPR kit. Just took my time, the kit took a lot longer to build but was in some ways more fun. The bigger parts are nice and kinda lends itself to being a little bit easier.

 

[Back_at_it]

The jump to mid-power is not a large one. The materials are simply stronger so the rockets are heavier and require different motors and equipment. Most mid-power kits can still be built with wood glue. You will still need all of the same things you have today like sand paper, hobby knife, glue, etc. Some of the building techniques are different like attaching the kevlar shock cord to the top centering ring. That attachment point could use and eye bolt in place of a typical tri-fold mount etc.

You will want to start beveling leading edges of fins and sanding bevels into centering rings etc. and there might be a little more fitting of parts depending on which manufacturer you go with. Mid-Power also gives you the opportunity to start using epoxies if you like and they generally have room in the body tubes for things like altimeters, chute releases etc. None of this is necessary but you now have the room to play with these things if you like.

When someone asks me about the jump to mid-power I generally point them to two vendors.

The first is Balsa machine. They have a great 3" kit called the school rocket. Awesome kit for a great price. I recommend getting the 29mm version as you can fly it on both 24mm and 29mm motors.
https://www.balsamachining.com/#
The other is LOC precision. They have a huge range of kits and it's a brand you can grow with. They have everything from 1" kits to 7.6" monsters. My recommendation is to start with the Scout or Onyx kits. I recently did a build thread on the Scout. https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/loc-scout.169869/

https://locprecision.com/collections/rockets-2-63-diameter/products/scouthttps://locprecision.com/collections/rockets-3-1-diameter/products/onyx
As for additional equipment. You'll need to step up to a 1/4" launch rod and you should invest in a quality launch controller but that is really about all you're going to need.

 

[thecapotc]

Echoing what everybody else has pretty much said for it's just bigger. I went from Estes kits and a little experience using JB Weld to fix stuff around the house/car/tractor straight into a 4" LOC IV and a 4" LOC T-LOC with "help" from 4H club members without even thinking of looking around online for help/gotchas.

Everything went smooth and performed flawlessly.

The other thing that was a little weird was the lack of an engine block, but I like the thrust rings and retainers after realizing how they worked.

 

[Donnager]

Easiest step up is to just switch from Estes kits (there are some midpower), to LOC/PML or others that tend to concentrate on the higher power stuff. The tubes will be thicker, there will usually be no balsa, but they may need larger motors to fly like Estes of similar size. Assembly is pretty much the same, including wood glue. Motor retention may be a little different, but plastic retainers, and heavier clips can make it pretty easy.

I like the small LOC kits for midpower, up to 3", but some of the 3" are really for higher power stuff--I get a little uncomfortable with parachutes coming out below 100'. The LOC kits are super strong, the instructions are pretty good (mostly), but if you've built little ones, you'll figure it out, or ask around here, and we'll help the best we can.

As far as suggestions for a hand tremor, I have to make jigs, or other guides to help keep things still, sometimes. Drilling holes for rail guides can require some effort. Use decent scribes, straight edges/angles, punches, and prick devices to help force the proper locating, for instance. And, lots of blue tape. Tools that allow you to brace as you process--router with fence, or wood guides for a saw will help, if you need them. Sometimes, just a two hand start technique can make life easier. For instance, when I have to weld, I use two hands. I can hold the gun with my right, but it takes both, usually bracing with my left arm/elbow when I do so, if I want to be smooth. I wind up controlling all the fine movement with fingers of the opposite hand, rather than the elbow. I don't know if these suggestions help, or if their even useful for midpower.

For 3" and lower diameter, I use a 1"x2" channel to lay the body of the rocket in during construction. I have a slot cut in the bottom to clear a fin, but the channel to hold it still helps a great deal. It also provides a great way to clamp fins in alignment with the airframe.

 

[Rob Campbell]

North Coast Rocketry makes some nice MPR kits like the Lance Delta and the Hobgoblin. They are also reasonably priced.

 

[gldknght]

Thank you! Did I mention the hand tremor? I'm on my phone and hit post by mistake halfway through the last sentence, caught it within 30 seconds and immediately edited to finish my thought.... Never noticed how I inadvertently unselected the thread title before inadvertently hitting the post button!

I have a hand-tremor also. It's more of a problem when I try to build a plastic model and try to paint small details. For rocketry, if my shake causes an issue, I just brace my hand against something solid.

If you haven't tried epoxy before, that is an item you might want to get familiar with. It's not absolutely necessary, but does make some things easier. 15 minute or 30 minute is what I use most. Use it sparingly, especially in the tail end.

If you are going to fly a lot of F and G motors, consider a couple reloadable motor cases like this one:

Lots of variety in mid power reloads for that one.

 

[bjphoenix]

I suggest a kit from LOC or Apogee, 2.6" tube diameter, and buy the appropriate single use F motor. It's not that big of a step beyond the bigger Estes rockets.

 

[86mustang408w]

I've been eyeing mid power for some time, but one thing that always daunts me with first attempts is "What would I absolutely know not to do if I'd done this even once already?"
So, for example, I can do a decent job on any LPR using a sharp knife, fine grit sandpaper, and my own personal "right" glue, wood filler, and paint schemes.

What do I not have? What don't I know how to do? Is it just a question of more fiddly assembly requirements- Spitfire with your "perfectly float this 1mm thick paperboard circle halfway into a tube until the glue sets," I'm looking at you... Should I learn how to solder? Should I become comfortable with adhesives that could adhere to me more quickly and permanently than CA? Do I need something that can cut through more than 3/8" basswood? Did I mention I have a "bit" of a hand tremor?

The biggest thing with mid power. Is guys get confused over motors. Some F motors from Estes are 29mm. But need a motor block and at least a friction fit, while others have a "lip", and use a retainer. YouTube has many videos, try searching for "level one rocket", most of the videos are all very informative and good. I even bought this book to jog my memory. It even has OpenRocket in it, then he builds of it. I make a checklist of everything and every step too, if its a special build as not to forget little things. Like installing the rail button after you put the top centering ring in. You seem like you have an idea of, but a good kit from LOC. They have the best kits for someone starting out, and it will help you learn them. Then you'll be scratch building your own in no time! Book below. And an order of motors from eRockets, 15 bux shipping for all..

And the book covers many mid power techniques up to L3 builds too. Its very good. And paperback allows me to disconnect from this phone.