Gonna’ ignite like the rocketeers of old

[brockrwood]

Found my nichrome wire! 36 gauge. That’s really thin. I am going to try some as igniters during my next launch. Wish me luck!

Need a ballpoint pen. An old one.

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/pubs/Estes/estTR-6/1963_Estes_TR-6.pdf

 

[rharshberger]

Found my nichrome wire! 36 gauge. That’s really thin. I am going to try some as igniters during my next launch. Wish me luck!

Need a ballpoint pen. An old one.

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/pubs/Estes/estTR-6/1963_Estes_TR-6.pdf

Thats an pretty small diameter, it might burn through to quickly, but give it a try anyways.

 

[Mugs914]

Found my nichrome wire! 36 gauge. That’s really thin. I am going to try some as igniters during my next launch. Wish me luck!

Need a ballpoint pen. An old one.

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/pubs/Estes/estTR-6/1963_Estes_TR-6.pdf

Best of luck, please keep us posted!

BTW - I for one didn't need to click the link...

My old Estes cardboard "range box" ALWAYS had a pen or two floating around in it!!

 

[brockrwood]

The wire.

 

[brockrwood]

Thats an pretty small diameter, it might burn through to quickly, but give it a try anyways.

My thought too. Got this in 2007. We shall see.

 

[Cape Byron]

The wire.

View attachment 526363

It's never pretty straight out of the bag.

I use similar, nail polish and a LONG length of Cat5 cable to light bonfires for the kids. Half a dozen in the fire, bundle the leads correctly and connect to the car battery via a Pratt GoBox. Accelerants optional.

Cool. Now I have a project for the weekend.

 

[bjphoenix]

Found my nichrome wire! 36 gauge. That’s really thin. I am going to try some as igniters during my next launch. Wish me luck!

Need a ballpoint pen. An old one.

You want an old ballpoint pen for nostalgia? Aren't current BIC pens similar? Actually any small diameter device could work similarly- a heavy paperclip, a very small allen wrench, things like that.

 

[caveduck]

If you have a numbered drill bit set, the fine ones in the #45-60 range will give you any size you want to match various nozzle diameters.

 

[lakeroadster]

When we were kids back in the '70's we used wire twist ties from bread wrappers. Take your fingernail and peel off the paper. I don't recall ever having an issue with these.

Keep in mind though we always used a 12V launch controller. 12 volts tend to solve a multitude of issues.

 

[brockrwood]

When we were kids back in the '70's we used wire twist ties from bread wrappers

Yankee ingenuity!

 

[lakeroadster]

Yankee ingenuity!

Kid with no money...

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome

 

[kuririn]

If you really want to fly like the old timers then how about using friction fit for motor retention and two slots in the body tube for shock cord retention?
Oh, and a folded coffee can for a launch deflector. And a launch controller with only a momentary launch button, no arm or continuity switch.
Ahh, the good old times. Nostalgic, yes. Better and more reliable? Meh...........

 

[brockrwood]

If you really want to fly like the old timers then how about using friction fit for motor retention and two slots in the body tube for shock cord retention?

I do use friction fitted engines with masking tape for about half of my rockets! This is mainly because I am too lazy when building a scratch build or rebuilding a crashed rocket to figure out where to put the engine hook and how to get it to stay in place.

The “two slits” type mount for the shock cord I have considered but not done. When I am building a kit or scratch build, I put in a Quest-style shock cord attached by kevlar to the motor mount. Or, if that is hard to do, I use an Estes-style tri-fold shock cord mount or a G. Harry Stine type shock cord mount simply glued inside the tube. I have not had a shock cord mount, of any type, come loose in all my years of flying model rockets (knocking on wood).

In particular, I am fearful to use the two slits shock cord mount with kevlar shock cord. I fear the kevlar will just cut right through the thin, cardboard body tube. I note that Estes has used the “two slits” shock cord mount on the Mini Meanie, a plastic body model rocket. That makes sense. It is hard to glue on a shock cord if the model is made of plastic. It makes more sense to just design the two slits right into the molded plastic parts.

NOW, the above being said, my friend
@milehigh is seriously into faithful recreation of the launch techniques and rocket designs of the early days of model rocketry. He has lovingly created a beautiful reproduction Orville Carlisle “Rock-a-chute” type rocket. He launches it on a wooden dowel to be completey authentic. It flies wonderfully!

 

[bjphoenix]

Found my nichrome wire! 36 gauge. That’s really thin. I am going to try some as igniters during my next launch. Wish me luck!

I have some old nichrome from maybe 50 years ago. With a micrometer it measures 0.008" diameter which would mean 32 gauge. I've seen 34 gauge recommended for use with 12V systems and down to 40 gauge for use with 9V batteries for onboard ejection charges.

 

[brockrwood]

I have some old nichrome from maybe 50 years ago. With a micrometer it measures 0.008" diameter which would mean 32 gauge. I've seen 34 gauge recommended for use with 12V systems and down to 40 gauge for use with 9V batteries for onboard ejection charges.

I think you are right. This 36 gauge nichrome wire is really thin. I fear it will just melt really fast because of my 12 volt, SLA battery launch system. It might melt so fast it does not stay hot long enough to ignite a black powder rocket engine. Still, I have a bunch of this wire in my inventory. I am going to try it before buying heavier gauge wire.

If the wire just melts too fast, maybe I can dip it in Testor’s silver enamel paint as suggested by others in the forum? Would that help? I have a bottle of Testor’s silver in my inventory, too.

 

[brockrwood]

Oh, and a folded coffee can for a launch deflector. And a launch controller with only a momentary launch button, no arm or continuity switch.

Been there, done that!

Maxwell House coffee can top as blast deflector!

Doorbell button, some lamp wire, and Eveready 12V lantern battery as launch system.

It never occurred to me as a middle schooler that all I had to do was wire TWO doorbell buttons in series and, voilà, instant “safety” mechanism! You have to press both buttons at the same time to launch. Takes both hands. Harder to accidentally launch if it takes both hands.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Just understand that a short piece of nichrome wire connected to two legs of better conductor wire, which is how most igniters are currently made, is more effective that a relatively long length of nichrome. Heating the entire length of nichrome between the alligator clips (and thus a tiny portion of the alligator clip) is inefficient.

 

[kuririn]

The Estes Tech Report doesn't go into a whole lot of detail about making the ignitors.
Here's a link with more detail:
https://makezine.com/projects/Model-Rocket-Igniters/A straightened paper clip seems easier to work with than a ball point pen.
Don't forget to bring your Alti Trak and Camroc.
Heh.

 

[brockrwood]

Camroc

Ha!

Made my own alti-trak using a protractor, a piece of string, and big, pink eraser.

 

[Mugs914]

A lot of the time the old ways are still good ways; sometimes better than the new-fangled stuff...

Hang on a second...

*(HEY KOU LIDS! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!)*

Sorry about that. Now what was I sayin'? Oh yeah...

I still use the wadding plug method for retaining the igniters (not starters) in my black powder stuff instead of those little plug things that come with the motors these days. VERY few failures even with the new igniters that everyone seems to hate.

I friction fit almost all of my black powder motors, the only exceptions are some kits and scratchers where the fins or a shroud or something like that make it hard to get a grip on the spent motor case. Don't remember ever spittin' a motor...

I still kind of prefer balsa nose cones and fins, cardstock transitions and scale-ish paintjobs (See the old Estes catalogs for reference) because that's how things were done when I got started in all of this back in the early to mid 70s.

That said, the new glues and paints are a Godsend, I use a lot of plastic, basswood and ply in my LP stuff these days, I rarely use Estes wadding for recovery anymore (prefer dogbarf), and I most certainly will NEVER return to some of the ropey launch methods we used to occasionally employ! And the new AP low power motors? C'mon now! We never dreamed of those!

The history of the hobby is a salad bar of techniques and methods, pick and choose the ones that work for you. But always remember to check the whole thing. There might just be a great idea down at the end behind the garbanzo beans!

 

[brockrwood]

Somewhere in TRF, someone suggested dipping the nichrome wire loop of this sort of DIY igniters in Testor's Silver enamel paint (the kind that comes in the tiny, little, glass bottle).

What does that do? Does it just keep the two nichrome wire leads from touching each other and shorting out? Does the Testor's silver paint actually act as a sort of "pyrogen"? Does it do both?

 

[BEC]

I always wrapped the nichrome around the safety key of my launch controller (an Electro-Launch back in those days) to make the coil.

Just understand that a short piece of nichrome wire connected to two legs of better conductor wire, which is how most igniters are currently made, is more effective that a relatively long length of nichrome. Heating the entire length of nichrome between the alligator clips (and thus a tiny portion of the alligator clip) is inefficient.

Which is why we were admonished to put the clips as close to the nozzle as we could get them back in those days….

 

[brockrwood]

I always wrapped the nichrome around the safety key of my launch controller (an Electro-Launch back in those days) to make the coil.


Which is why we were admonished to put the clips as close to the nozzle as we could get them back in those days….

That did occur to me. I guess I could literally just twist a couple of leads of regular wire (thin gauge) onto a very short piece of nichrome. If I do that, however, this retro-fun experiment would soon enter the category of "more trouble than it is worth".

 

[Grant_Edwards]

The sliver paint contains powdered aluminum (which is quite flammable).

 

[brockrwood]

The paint contains powdered aluminum (which is quite flamable).

Ooo!

 

[kuririn]

would soon enter the category of "more trouble than it is worth".

Bingo!

 

[kuririn]

Old way:
1. DIY nichrome igniters
2. Two slits in the airframe for a shock cord anchor
3. Single momentary switch for a launch controller
4. 1/2 in. launch lug and rod for high power launch guide
5. Mercury switches, flash bulbs and Jetex wick
6. Alti Trak
7. Hope and pray the wind doesn't carry my rocket away.

New way:
1. Igniters with a bridge wire (most with a pyrogen)
2. Shock cord with a kevlar leader anchored to the motor mount.
3. Safety, continuity and ignition switches on a controller.
4. Launch rails and rail guides
5. Programmable multi event flight computers.
6. Altimeter
7. JLCR

Old way still works, new way works better.

 

[Mugs914]

Which is why we were admonished to put the clips as close to the nozzle as we could get them back in those days….

Still a habit with me, even though our club rig could ignite carpet thread...

Clips above the tape, boys!

 

[Batjac]

The sliver paint contains powdered aluminum (which is quite flammable).

Which is better? The Testors Silver paint or the Testors Aluminum paint?

Mark

 

[brockrwood]

Which is better? The Testors Silver paint or the Testors Aluminum paint?

Mark

Going to test Testor’s Silver versus Testor’s “Steel”, head to head.