FSI motors

[skaffgeorge2]

Gonna be aquiring a few old FSI kits soon.My question is, what modern motors would be comparable to the old FSI motors? The kits I'm getting used mostly the D18's and D20's and possibly the F100's.I would like to get close to the performance of the original motors if possible.I have a Viking One kit that I'm converting to 18mm motors and I would like to try QJet D's and E's in it so would it have to be built sturdier than it would normally be?

 

[shockie]

Well since the FSI D18/D20/F100 we're nowhere near their labeled rating, take your pick.

 

[kuririn]

Your Viking One can take 18mm D16 and D20 QJets, but I think the QJet Es are all 24mm.

 

[skaffgeorge2]

Your Viking One can take 18mm D16 and D20 QJets, but I think the QJet Es are all 24mm

How do the D16 and D20 compare In performance with the old black powder D18's and D20'S? Considering they're composites I would think they would be more energetic.

 

[kuririn]

How do the D16 and D20 compare In performance with the old black powder D18's and D20'S? Considering they're composites I would think they would be more energetic.

Don't know, never flew FSI motors.
Maybe someone who did can chime in.

 

[cwbullet]

I bought a box of the F100 motors. I agree that they seem tame compared to other "100" motors.

 

[skaffgeorge2]

Don't know, never flew FSI motors.
Maybe someone who did can chime in.

I bought a box of the F100 motors. I agree that they seem tame compared to other "100" motors.

Would love to find some of them if I could,to put in those FSI kits that used them originally because some of those kits seem to be becoming available now.Anyone have an idea where I can find some of them? Looking for D18's and D20's.It would be cool to see my Viking fly on the original motors.Been around since the late 60's when FSI was in full production but never had the opportunity to fly the kits or motors.Were they really as inconsistent as people have said they were?

 

[cwbullet]

Would love to find some of them if I could,to put in those FSI kits that used them originally because some of those kits seem to be becoming available now.Anyone have an idea where I can find some of them? Looking for D18's and D20's.It would be cool to see my Viking fly on the original motors.Been around since the late 60's when FSI was in full production but never had the opportunity to fly the kits or motors.Were they really as inconsistent as people have said they were?

I have not seen any inconsistency. That’s does not meant it not real.

 

[rocketguy101]

Here is a scan of a 1991 FSI catalog with some thrust curves...

 

[Tom Flint]

FSI motors were not inconsistent in thrust performance, but they did cato often. Also the FSI F motors were 27mm in diameter, not 29mm, so I don't think you can fit modern black powder Estes F's into the FSI rockets. You'd have to adapt down to 24mm and use composite F's. The F100 was less than 50 Newton-seconds so any composite F with a comparable total impulse would work well and would probably outperform the old FSI F-one-oh-Boom.

 

[Alan15578]

I have only built one FSI kit, but I have flown many D20, E5, and F100 motors. These were hand loaded motors, but I had very few catos. The interesting thing is that FSI sold many motor mount kits for all tubes, while Estes does not even sell an F motor mount kit for their own tubes.

 

[shockie]

I don't know what the definition of inconsistency is these days but back in the early 1970's they were a bunch of crap. So said Trip Barber. Most of these early FSI motors were made by Fireworks equipment known as a Gang Ram or Press. attached is a photo of the Gang Ram Vern Estes used to make his 1st test model rocket motors before he designed and built the 1st Mabel. The second photo is just a photo of a Gang ram /Press. I don't know when George Roos, the original owner of FSI (from 1966) sold out to Lonny Reese.

 

[Alan15578]

I don't know what the definition of inconsistency is these days but back in the early 1970's they were a bunch of crap. So said Trip Barber. Most of these early FSI motors were made by Fireworks equipment known as a Gang Ram or Press. attached is a photo of the Gang Ram Vern Estes used to make his 1st test model rocket motors before he designed and built the 1st Mabel. The second photo is just a photo of a Gang ram /Press. I don't know when George Roos, the original owner of FSI (from 1966) sold out to Lonny Reese.

I skipped NARAM-13 because it is not fair to always convince the family to take their weekly vacation at NARAM. I did do 12, 14, and 15. The FSI D18 thing is all on the contestants, They should have known better, but NAR S&T bears some of the blame. The FSI motors being crap is a fair assessment. The common advice was to static fire one motor and then decide what to do with the other two in the pack. Nevertheless, the motors were different and fun. I was lucky and had few problems. The E5 was great fun, but a delay/ejection failure shortened my favorite Big Bertha. A 5:1 ogive restored the length. My favorite period was when the E5 was briefly contest certified as a D. I flew a large Groundhog with the E5, but to get the delay I wanted I clustered it with an A3-6t. The A3 catoed, severing all the deployment cords. The D20 was my preferred choice in D eggloft. I think I flew 6 F100 motors. half used the FSI igniter, and half used an electric match, with no failures.

It was the old FSI tubes that were crap. They were heavy and lumpy with overlapped seams. Sanding them down weakened the tube, and filling them in took lots of primer/filler. Later kits were more like the Estes/Euclid tubes.

 

[skaffgeorge2]

I skipped NARAM-13 because it is not fair to always convince the family to take their weekly vacation at NARAM. I did do 12, 14, and 15. The FSI D18 thing is all on the contestants, They should have known better, but NAR S&T bears some of the blame. The FSI motors being crap is a fair assessment. The common advice was to static fire one motor and then decide what to do with the other two in the pack. Nevertheless, the motors were different and fun. I was lucky and had few problems. The E5 was great fun, but a delay/ejection failure shortened my favorite Big Bertha. A 5:1 ogive restored the length. My favorite period was when the E5 was briefly contest certified as a D. I flew a large Groundhog with the E5, but to get the delay I wanted I clustered it with an A3-6t. The A3 catoed, severing all the deployment cords. The D20 was my preferred choice in D eggloft. I think I flew 6 F100 motors. half used the FSI igniter, and half used an electric match, with no failures.

It was the old FSI tubes that were crap. They were heavy and lumpy with overlapped seams. Sanding them down weakened the tube, and filling them in took lots of primer/filler. Later kits were more like the Estes/Euclid tubes.

Sorry but I don't know what you're referring to, what happened at NARAM 13?

 

[Alan15578]

Sorry but I don't know what you're referring to, what happened at NARAM 13?

I was responding to the previous post. I did not attend NARAM 13.

 

[Buzzard]

NARAM-13: See the first attachment under reply #12 above. I was there, but did not compete that year. It was a huge East Coast NARAM with 300+ contestants. I served as a scale judge.

Chas

 

[lakeroadster]

Gonna be aquiring a few old FSI kits soon.My question is, what modern motors would be comparable to the old FSI motors? The kits I'm getting used mostly the D18's and D20's and possibly the F100's.I would like to get close to the performance of the original motors if possible.I have a Viking One kit that I'm converting to 18mm motors and I would like to try QJet D's and E's in it so would it have to be built sturdier than it would normally be?

If it were me... I'd create a simulation in Open Rocket for each kit that I planned to build, then simulate various motors.

 

[Art Upton]

I don't know what the definition of inconsistency is these days but back in the early 1970's they were a bunch of crap. So said Trip Barber. Most of these early FSI motors were made by Fireworks equipment known as a Gang Ram or Press. attached is a photo of the Gang Ram Vern Estes used to make his 1st test model rocket motors before he designed and built the 1st Mabel. The second photo is just a photo of a Gang ram /Press. I don't know when George Roos, the original owner of FSI (from 1966) sold out to Lonny Reese.

George Roos motors worked just fine , I flew at least 50-60 of them. Then later they started to CATO.

I flew Enerjet 2250 with 3 F100s and Chris Person was saying this would be exciting meaning fail. They all worked perfect. I still have a few FSI motors including F100s in my collect from the early 70s that dont CATO.