First HPR - Level One Certification

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mvetere71092

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hello,
i am new to rocketry forum but have been doing rocketry for a while. I have just purchased the Patriot Missile Kit by Madcow Rocketry to be my Level 1 Cert rocket. Its a pretty big rocket, 52.5in tall, 4in diameter, i posted the link below where i purchased it that has all the specs.
I will be launching it for my Junior Level 1 at NERRF 6, since I will still not be 18.
Wondering if anyone has any tips before i start building?
thanks

Link to rocket:
https://www.discountrocketry.com/4.....html?osCsid=acff57b72f19e82123b1bbe58c56ed09
 

Handeman

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My advice would be, build it according to the instructions. Don't start worrying about fiberglass, tip to tip, and all that. As long as you fly it on the recommended motors, it should be just fine assembled according to the manufactures instructions.

Take lots of pictures and post them here. We love pictures!:D
 

cbrarick

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Fly it single deploy - don't do dual deploy yet - just too much complexity. Besides the sod farm has lots of room to recover the rocket single deploy as long as you don't go crazy with the motor (why not a H180??). Good luck with your build - I'll be rooting for you at NERRF!
 

ONAWHIM

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I have 5 Madcow kits.

For each build I epoxied the forward motor center ring on the motor tune but not the aft.
I test fitted the motor mount assembly with the aft ring on and made sure it the mount would go in with no problem.

I then marked the inside of the airframe where the forward ring would go.
Remove the assembly and apply epoxy to that mark only.

Slide the assembly in making sure it is positioned where it should go.
Let the epoxy set overnight.

Remove the aft ring.
I used a machinist rule and went in the fin slot to knock the ring out.

Then I epoxied on the fins.
Using this method not only could I visualize the fin alignment with the center of the motor, I can then fillet the inside to my liking.

For each kit I used an Aeropac retainer.
If you do the same make sure you have enough motor tube hanging out to attach to. Your instructions say to leave 1/4".

Have fun!
 

UPscaler

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I have 5 Madcow kits.

For each build I epoxied the forward motor center ring on the motor tune but not the aft.
I test fitted the motor mount assembly with the aft ring on and made sure it the mount would go in with no problem.

I then marked the inside of the airframe where the forward ring would go.
Remove the assembly and apply epoxy to that mark only.

Slide the assembly in making sure it is positioned where it should go.
Let the epoxy set overnight.

Remove the aft ring.
I used a machinist rule and went in the fin slot to knock the ring out.

Then I epoxied on the fins.
Using this method not only could I visualize the fin alignment with the center of the motor, I can then fillet the inside to my liking.

For each kit I used an Aeropac retainer.
If you do the same make sure you have enough motor tube hanging out to attach to. Your instructions say to leave 1/4".

Have fun!
Wow, that's a good idea! I'll have to remember that.
 

mvetere71092

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alright well thankyou guys, I will definately be posting pictures and keeping things up to date
 

rocketmna581

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... from what I can see. I am currently a level-2, and I only build scratch rockets with components that are much cheaper and easily available ie, sonotubes, gorilla glue, 1/4" plywood from the hardware store, mason line for shock cords, and nylon fabric for chutes. I built a copy of the Patriot with the above materials.

The components from Madcow are excellent, and if you build according to the instructions, you will be fine for your Level-1. You do not need to set an altitude record, you just need to fly it on an H impulse motor or greater.

Just don't get it stuck in a high tree!
 

mvetere71092

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Here are some pictures of how the build is going. Nothing to exciting, just the motor mount and the parachute mount.

I will be assembling the fins soon. More pictures to come.:cyclops:

IMGA0161.JPG


IMGA0162.JPG


IMGA0163.JPG


IMGA0164.JPG


IMGA0165.JPG
 

berlinetta

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In my opinion, I would have used a quick link to attach the tubular nylon to the eyebolt on the centering ring. I would do this in case I would need to change the shock cord from either wear or if I need a longer shock cord. There is no way of retying a shock cord on the eyebolt with the eyebolt being that far down. Thank is just my opinion. Other than that, the rocket looks like it is coming out great.
 

Mikus

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hello,
i am new to rocketry forum but have been doing rocketry for a while. I have just purchased the Patriot Missile Kit by Madcow Rocketry to be my Level 1 Cert rocket. Its a pretty big rocket, 52.5in tall, 4in diameter, i posted the link below where i purchased it that has all the specs.
I will be launching it for my Junior Level 1 at NERRF 6, since I will still not be 18.
Wondering if anyone has any tips before i start building?
I got my L1 with a Madcow Patriot. It was built stock except for the addition of a centering ring at the forward end of the fin tabs. Berlinetta is absolutely correct, you will want to use a quick-link to attach the shock cord, as I did. :D A nomex shock-cord protector is the only other thing I added.

It's a good bird, a H123 will put it up about 1000' and keep everything in sight for you. Good luck on your cert attempt. :cheers:

SuperFly-L1-004.jpg
 

delta22

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Good Luck.

Build looks good so far.

The Madcow Patriot is a nice rocket.
 

MarkII

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In my opinion, I would have used a quick link to attach the tubular nylon to the eyebolt on the centering ring. I would do this in case I would need to change the shock cord from either wear or if I need a longer shock cord. There is no way of retying a shock cord on the eyebolt with the eyebolt being that far down. Thank is just my opinion. Other than that, the rocket looks like it is coming out great.
You can't get your hand into and down a 4" diameter tube? If he can reach down into the tube in order to undo a quick link, then he can reach in to remove (or cut off) a tied-on shock cord. If the tube was 3", it might get a little complicated (not impossible, though). But with a 4" tube, it should be no problem. If it is, mv, then just get a kid to help you. ;) If the eye bolt were down so deep that he couldn't reach it by hand, then how would he be able to get down there to open up and remove a quick link? And besides, why should he add more steel than he absolutely needs to the build? It's not like he is going rock climbing with it.

I'm an advocate of "build it strong, but built it light." You have many more options with a lightweight rocket than you do with a heavyweight. This includes not adding on more hardware than the rocket actually needs. You don't want your rocket to end up looking like a rapper. :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work, mv; I'm pulling for you. :D

MarkII
 
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Neutron95

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Good luck on the Jr. L1 certification. I have built a Madcow Hawk missile and was really pleased.
 

troj

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Here are some pictures of how the build is going. Nothing to exciting, just the motor mount and the parachute mount.
Looks good, so far.

I do have one question, regarding the shock cord... What kind of knot did you use to tie the TN (tubular nylon) to the eye bolt? For obvious reasons, this is something you don't want coming loose, except when you're looking to replace it.

-Kevin
 

delta22

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Knot: I agree the knot will be a problem when it loosens, and the TN is hard to keep tight. I would put some thin epoxy or CA on it to lock up the knot.

Wouldn't worry about using a quick link unless you plan on using that piece of TN on other rockets too. The TN definitely needs to be covered by a Nomex fireproof sleeve.

Modifications to instructions: One nice opportunity with a high quality kit like this for a rocketeer who is learning new skills, is to build the kit following the instructions closely and learn from them.

There will be plenty of time later to customize future builds when you have more experience. I started by learning from building good kits, now many of my builds are 100% scratch.
 

TheAviator

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I've never had a knot in tubular nylon come undone on me, but I've always used a double figure eight or double bowline on mine. If you didn't tie your knot this way (and it looks like you didn't), I would recommend using one or the other. The double figure eight is a little easier on someone who doesn't know either knot, but the double bowline has a slightly higher strength efficiency, about 5% I think.

It does look like it will be a pain to reach that knot; however, the increase in strength and reliability would be well worth it, IMHO.

Cool thing is, both knots are easy to get undone after being loaded and they both self-tighten.
 

ScrapDaddy

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Good luck on your cert attempt. :cheers:
I second that! Good luck with your cert atempt (note is said ATEMPT)
this I coming from someone who has to wait SIX YEARS to get mine :( (what's wrong with kids with big motors?) i think I might use a honest john (it's all fiberglass :D I'd like to see the rocket gods destroy that)

EDIT: and MarkII I'm with your bulid it strong and build it light motto; but it is a proven fact (conducted by the *classifyed third party) that people tend to overbuild their level 1 cert rockets, because who wouldn't want to get that special rocket back? :) Once again Good luck! ;)

PPS don't put a motor block in (if included)
 
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kramer714

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I started tying a loop in my shock cord, enough so the knot is easy to get to up near the end of the tube, plus, if I need to change shock cords I can cut the loop, and use the old shock cord to fish the new one in.
 

cjl

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I second that! Good luck with your cert atempt (note is said ATEMPT)
this I coming from someone who has to wait SIX YEARS to get mine :( (what's wrong with kids with big motors?) i think I might use a honest john (it's all fiberglass :D I'd like to see the rocket gods destroy that)

EDIT: and MarkII I'm with your bulid it strong and build it light motto; but it is a proven fact (conducted by the *classifyed third party) that people tend to overbuild their level 1 cert rockets, because who wouldn't want to get that special rocket back? :) Once again Good luck! ;)

PPS don't put a motor block in (if included)
6 years? Are you 8, or are you just unfamiliar with the NAR Jr L1 program?
 

berlinetta

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As far as tying the tubular nylon in a knot, if I have to do that, I will tie it according to PML's instructions. The knot never loosens on me. I was taught this the day I went for my Level 1.

I just tied my tubular nylon PML-style to quick links on my level 1 bird. I wanted it so I can disconnect the shockcord from the nose cone, as I need to repaint it. That way, as delta22 stated, I can use that in other rockets if I wanted.

The H123 is a very nice motor for a Level 1 certification flight.
 

mvetere71092

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to troj: the knot i used was an overhand knot, the one it said to use in the instructions. then i put a thin layer of appoxy on it to make sure it didnt come loose. i will definatly keep in mind the idea about the quick link, but i dont think i can change anything now.
i finished attaching all four fins and will be posting pictures later tonight. they came out really well and dont budge when i put a lot of pressure on them.
any suggestions on rail buttons or launch lugs? i was planning on using launch lugs even though the kit came with rail buttons. i looked at how the rail buttons were attached and i didnt like that i had to screw them into the centering rings, plus i feel like for my level one cert i should stick with what i am used to and not try the rail buttons for the first time.
all i have to do after i figure out the rail buttons/launch lug is attach the nose cone parachute and paint it. builds going well its just taking me a little while cause i dont have much spare time right now, but im chugging, thanks all for the help so far :w:
 

Handeman

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to troj: any suggestions on rail buttons or launch lugs? i was planning on using launch lugs even though the kit came with rail buttons. i looked at how the rail buttons were attached and i didnt like that i had to screw them into the centering rings, plus i feel like for my level one cert i should stick with what i am used to and not try the rail buttons for the first time.
I would seriously consider staying with the rail buttons. I started flying with lugs and that was about the only pads available then. Today, the only rods normally put out are 1/4 inch and that's for the TARC teams. Everyone else is using rails.

Definately mount the rail buttons to the CRs. It doesn't hurt the CRs at all and makes the rail button mounting much stronger.
 

cjl

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any suggestions on rail buttons or launch lugs? i was planning on using launch lugs even though the kit came with rail buttons. i looked at how the rail buttons were attached and i didnt like that i had to screw them into the centering rings, plus i feel like for my level one cert i should stick with what i am used to and not try the rail buttons for the first time.
Definitely, 100%, without a doubt go with the rail buttons. Rails simply work better - there's no way around it. Not only is alignment less of an issue with buttons than it is with launch lugs, the rails themselves are much, much stiffer than rods, allowing for higher acceleration and heavier rockets with no concern of rod whip. I would say there are almost no situations >G in which I would recommend a rod.
 

mvetere71092

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alright thankyou very much guys, i will definatly be trying my hands at the rail buttons
like i said, here are some pictures of the fins :clap:

IMGA0186.JPG


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IMGA0189.JPG
 

mvetere71092

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and one more...
i swear, these pictures look brighter on the actual camera

IMGA0191.JPG
 
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