Estes Saturn V #1969 Build - Let's share ideas and experiences...

Discussion in 'Mid Power Rocketry (MPR)' started by EeebeeE, Feb 8, 2019.

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  1. Jun 30, 2019 #181

    OverTheTop

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    Looking great! I have started throwing paint onto mine. Masking will be fun, I think :eek:.
     
  2. Jun 30, 2019 #182

    USAFmissileer

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    Does the third stage plastic transition for the new 1969 work with the 2157? Seems easier. And, what comparison between LES towers in both? Is the new one easier to build? I have an unbuilt 2157 I am getting ready to start.
     
  3. Jun 30, 2019 #183

    Bat-mite

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    Anyone plan on using an AT E15-4W SU?
     
  4. Jun 30, 2019 #184

    David Schwantz

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    Hi Bat, I have used AT F67-4W for mine. I just ordered G-74 6W to try. Mine is a bit heavier at 22 oz though.
     
  5. Jul 1, 2019 #185

    mjennings

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    Mine is masked for the black! I apparently miss aligned my wrap after I cut it and "fixed it. decided to make the ulage motors correctly white instead of having aligned roll patterns, shouldn't be two noticeable. I found that a mechanical pencil with 0.5mm lead (I had the lead retracted) was just the right size to work the masking tape down into the corrugations.
     
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  6. Jul 1, 2019 #186

    Jay Chladek

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    Yes, the body tube diameters are the same so the new blow molded SLA cone works perfectly. You will just need to cut the service module tube down to its final exposed length to slip over the top of the cone. It is a tight fit, but it does fit.

    Concerning the capsule and LES, Estes totally revamped the design as it now is very close to the original Centuri capsule LES rather than the Estes version used previously. The LES cage has been simplified down from five parts to three. So you get the outer cage structure split diagonally on each side and the ring piece in the center. There is a lot more gluing surface where the outer cage segments join, compared to the tiny "spot weld" contact points on the old LES cage. More gluing surface means a much stronger bond with a lot less weak links. This should make the structure able to survive flight stresses a lot better than before. Use plastic weld glue on there and it will do the job just fine.

    Estes 1969 LES.jpg

    20190411_012324.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  7. Jul 1, 2019 #187

    Jay Chladek

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    Now the capsule itself on the 1969 kit is a bit less detailed than the BPC capsules used on all the previous Estes Satun V kits. All they give you are the SM cable tray umbilical in its block 2 position and the main segment dividers for the BPC. But, this makes it the perfect blank slate to add detailing with styrene bits. Now this is strictly for looks and has nothing to do with rocket flight. But it really adds to the presentation of the Saturn V IMHO.

    I sketched the shapes on a large piece of masking tape, then transferred it to a sheet of styrene to cut out main items such as the hatch and main window covers.

    BPC detailing.jpg

    A few hours later I had this:

    BPC styrene.jpg
    And after some additional work and paint (and additional details added to the SM thanks to a wrap and clever use of thin tape to represent the radiator vanes) I had this.

    CSM paintwork.jpg
     
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  8. Jul 6, 2019 #188

    rcode

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    Does anyone know how much weight we need to add to the Saturn V's after converting to using Boyce's fin can? I cut my main tube down as directed to keep the lengh correct but trying to figure out the additional nose wight for the unit for the 24mm center.
     
  9. Jul 7, 2019 #189

    gtche98

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    These fin fairings are going to be the death of me. I have ruined 2 now with another set on order. Probably should have just bought a second complete kit for parts...

    I tried following hcmbanjo's blog to fit the fairings but I am not skilled enough to get them sanded down evenly to fit within the corrugation. And if I squeeze them to fit, it buckles the bottom.

    I am resigned to have the fairings sit on top of the corrugations.

    My plan is to set the fairing exactly where I want it and then mark the location with a pencil. Then insert the fin with a few drops of CA on the root, get the fairing lined back up on the pencil marks and tack the fin root to the BT wrap.

    From there I can take the fairing off, get the fin filleted with epoxy and then epoxy down the fairing.

    I had thought about cutting back the corrugation to fit the fairings, but I have an even bigger problem if I mess that up.

    I welcome your thoughts on this approach. Is there another way to approach this that I am not thinking about?
     
  10. Jul 7, 2019 #190

    James Harechmak

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    Go with your plan for the fairings. They sat on top of the corrugations on the on the 1:1. Just use enough epoxy to keep them in place.
     
  11. Jul 7, 2019 #191

    Funkworks

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    Perhaps you could tell us its weight? Then, anyone who's familiar with OpenRocket should be able to model it. If I get a bad landing with my own kit, and need extensive repairs, I might get a Boyce fin can instead.
     
  12. Jul 7, 2019 #192

    Homer_S

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    Don't forget... the Boyce fin can has scale fins. Better double check the CP as well as the CG. Site says the fin can is 5 oz., might as well weigh yours. Add it as a mass item to the ORK file in this thread or do a mass override on the existing motor mount to account for it.

    Homer
     
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  13. Jul 7, 2019 #193

    OverTheTop

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    I mounted the fins first, then the fairing over the top. For a look how I did it check this thread out: https://forum.ausrocketry.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6278

    AlignFinsresize.jpg PlacingCowlingresize.jpg FinishedCowlingresize.jpg
     
  14. Jul 8, 2019 #194

    gtche98

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    I like that technique OverTheTop. Finding and marking the center line of the fin seems straight forward. How did you measure and mark how far from the aft edge of the BT the fin was supposed to be placed?

    That is what I intended to do by marking the fairing position first, then using the fairing to "spot" the location for the fin. Once the fin is tacked, I will remove the fairing and reinforce the fin mount to the BT wrap.

    Really appreciate everyone's help on this thread. I am not a level 5 builder, so I am a bit in over my head. But I wanted a Saturn V, and really wanted to say I built it myself. I also wanted to fly it on July 20th, but I think that deadline is a bit out of reach at this point. I am not going to rush it just to meet that deadline.
     
  15. Jul 8, 2019 #195

    OverTheTop

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    I cut a cowling, including the slot. I could then place the fin on the tube and hold it in place while the cowling located it. The cowling was then carefully lifted and the position of the aft end of the fin marked with a pencil on the airframe. The distance was checked and then copied to the other three locations, using a combination square.

    Don't forget that these vacuum moldings are thinner when they are stretched more. The corrugated wraps are not so bad, but the cowlings are at the other end of the spectrum. Care is the crucial word when working these.
     
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  16. Jul 8, 2019 #196

    Bat-mite

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    Mine looks like doggie-do, but all it needs now is rail buttons. Will launch once on July 20, then go on a shelf (or trash can if it crashes). Was a real test of my patience. I have short, fat fingers affected by 52 years of diabetes, and I would way rather build a giant FG rocket than a scale job like this. But I will be proud to participate in the 50th anniversary launch to the best of my ability. My son has the RTF 1/200 model, and my daughter will be content to fly her first ever independent build, Dark Zero.
     
  17. Jul 10, 2019 #197

    Mailman

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    IMG_2386.jpg

    This build kept getting more and more challenging. Third stage... alright smooth sailing. Argh Body wraps!!! Check! Now you want me to install these fairings and fins how?!?!?


    She’s not perfect, but I’m very happy and proud of the results (thus far) and I was able to learn a few new tricks along the way.

    Accidentally picked up the self etching primer instead of my go to Summit Racing sandable so the paint is going to have to wait till I make a run to the store. God grant me the patience needed to finish this beast.
     
  18. Jul 10, 2019 #198

    gtche98

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    Looks good Mailman. I am longing to get mine to a similar level of completeness. I would be tempted to fly her on the 20th in that condition...

    My replacement fairings shipped yesterday from Estes. I may get them Friday or Saturday. With enough luck, I may get it to a flying condition (sans paint) in the next 10 days...
     
  19. Jul 10, 2019 #199

    beantownJPL

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    I'm at about the same level of completeness, but yours looks way better.

    I didn't get my body wraps quite right, so the conduits don't line up perfect. I'll make that passable with some putty and sanding. I also didn't get my fins quite square ... damn thing doesn't fit in my alignment jig ... but you can only notice if you are looking for it. I'll custom build a jig next time I need to put fins on a rocket this fat.

    A bit of filling and sanding to do and it'll be ready for primer ... and filling ... and sanding ... I'm not going to go too crazy on the final finish since I'm not so happy with how the build is going, but it'll still look great at 30' and in the air.

    She'll fly on 7/20 regardless of how complete she is. All I need to do is install the recovery and it's flyable now. I expect I'll have the paint done by then though.

    I'd like to build this kit again over the winter so that I can use the experience from this build and get a result worthy of this historic bird and just keep flying this warty version until I crash it or lose it. Next build I think I'll either modify it for 29mm motors or a 5-motor cluster. Put 29mm mount in the center, surrounded by 4 24mm mounts. That'd give me a lot of power options ... can fly on 1, 2 or 5 motors as my whims, weather and wallet dictate. Haven't simmed that kind of setup yet ... wonder what it'd take to be stable...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  20. Jul 10, 2019 #200

    Bat-mite

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    Just need to get my rail buttons on ....
     
  21. Jul 11, 2019 #201

    OverTheTop

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    Just purchased some E12 motors in readiness. Now I need to get the paint completed in the next nine days. Winter is getting in the way of painting here.
     
  22. Jul 11, 2019 #202

    ascastil

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    Winter is getting in the way of painting? Geez where do you live? It was 111* today here, I think 113* tomorrow or something like that.
     
  23. Jul 11, 2019 #203

    Homer_S

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    Down under? Just a guess... or not... says Melbourne Australia! :)

    Homer
     
  24. Jul 11, 2019 #204

    mjennings

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    Mine is in decal and touch up paint stage.
    I had a couple of fairing joints break when pulling off the masking tape so that will be fun fix. Using a mechanical pencil tip to push the masking tap in to the corrugation really helped!
    Oddly post paint the upper section fits a lot tighter into the booster section.

    Also looking at launch pics of Apollo 11 the top of the tunnel on the SIV-B stage is black and the area just to the right has a white cut out into the black stripe. Rockets of the World has the tunnel all white
     
  25. Jul 11, 2019 #205

    Homer_S

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    Good catch... looks like there is an inverse notch on the opposite side as well.

    Homer
     
  26. Jul 11, 2019 #206

    OverTheTop

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    I have noticed if I leave them disassembled for a while the fit gets tighter. I suspect it is humidity differences in the cardboard parts affecting dimensions. I have taken to keeping them together at all times to make life easy. Seems to work.

    And yes, Melbourne Australia. I am tending to get a few runs due to the paint not flashing off quickly enough when I spray it. Ambient temperature is under the recommended temperature limit :(.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  27. Jul 12, 2019 #207

    Jay Chladek

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    Rockets of the World was more into getting dimensions of the booster and the basic paint pattern down. Each of the Saturns had little paint quirks that didn't quite get represented in the imagery and every time I would view photos or watch a video (such as the new Apollo 11 documentary) I would catch a different detail I had never seen before. Saturn IU.jpg
     
  28. Jul 12, 2019 #208

    Jay Chladek

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    The exterior work on my bird is pretty much done, so I couldn't resist the chance to do a pose that commemorates the 50 year history of the kit.

    Estes kits.jpg
     
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  29. Jul 12, 2019 #209

    OverTheTop

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    Very nice!
     
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  30. Jul 12, 2019 #210

    Jay Chladek

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    This is the inverted cutout. It is centered on position IIII. It has a "+Y" marking there as well. the SMS Decal set for the 1/96 Saturn available at CultTVman.com has the Y and Z markings for the IU section and they fit just fine in 1/100.

    https://www.apollosaturn.com/Website/Saturn-V-Markings/i-WQdTXqd/A

    Later boosters starting (I believe) with Apollo 15 had two white areas. This one and a second one just off to the side. So did at least a couple of the Saturn 1Bs that flew from the Pad 39B Milkstool (Skylab and ASTP).
     

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