Estes Saturn V #1969 Build - Let's share ideas and experiences...

Discussion in 'Mid Power Rocketry (MPR)' started by EeebeeE, Feb 8, 2019.

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  1. Jul 12, 2019 #211

    ascastil

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    Just ordered a 29mm motor mount and 3d printed fin upgrade from Boyce. I'm ordering stickers from Stickershock. I'll be starting my build at the end of this month during vacation. Im going to use a lot of the techniques that I learned from the Apogee Saturn 1b rocket that I just finished. Cant wait.
     
  2. Jul 12, 2019 #212

    mjennings

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    I pulled a layer off of the coupler tube it is still a little tight but a lot better, Don't pull a layer off of the body tube it's really thin.

    I'm not going for 100% paint accuracy, but I want to do better than the simplified schematics in the instructions. More of a that looks really good 5 feet away instead of the that looks good on the pad. Thanks for that links. Homer I've looked at that image a few times and can't figure out if it's white or bare metal for a connector that attached from the other tower. maybe both? What are folks doing where the swing arms attached?
     
  3. Jul 12, 2019 #213

    Homer_S

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    Closer view here. Looks white to me.

    Homer
     
  4. Jul 13, 2019 #214

    Jay Chladek

    Jay Chladek

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    Go with white. Every reference I scoured seems to indicate that.
     
  5. Jul 14, 2019 #215

    VonRecktofen

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    Despite the lower stage wrap being too high, I’ve gotten the decals almost placed, the roll patterns look like Ham the chimp painted them, but it will fly this coming Saturday on an E-18-4 IMG_2503.jpg
     
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  6. Jul 14, 2019 #216

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    I think it looks pretty darn good. Good luck with the flight.
     
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  7. Jul 14, 2019 #217

    VonRecktofen

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    Thanks!
    The more I look at it, the more mistakes I see, but oh well, it will fly for the 50th Anniversary, then it will be cleaned up and retired to the hangar!

    Thanks again!
    Franz in NJ
     
  8. Jul 14, 2019 #218

    VonRecktofen

    VonRecktofen

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    So, for those of you that have flown this 1969 kit so far, where should the balance point be? I added the 4 pats of clay that came with kit, and I modified my model to fly with the 4 engine bells mounted to it, so I will need a bit more nose weight....Open Rocket sim says 22" down from the nose...
     
  9. Jul 16, 2019 #219

    mikec

    mikec

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    I did this too, and ended up with 2.2 oz of weight in the nose, and it was still only marginally stable on an AT E20. I've subsequently decided I'm never flying it again with the engine bells mounted (I made them removable and had to move the motor back somewhat to make this work.) I hope your outcome is different, but be careful. The kit is not very stable with its smallish fins.
     
  10. Jul 16, 2019 #220

    Mailman

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    IMG_2388.jpg

    I was thinking of keeping all gold but the wife says I’m wimping out if I don’t try and get roll patterns on it. Thoughts? I’m worried about layering over a metallic paint.
     
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  11. Jul 16, 2019 #221

    VonRecktofen

    VonRecktofen

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    Now you’ve got me a bit worried... It sounded like a great idea at the time to fly one with the 4 engine bells attached... I’m planning either 24mm AT E-18-4 or E 20-4, should I add more than 2.20 oz into the nose/service module to be more safe?

    This will be the only launch of this model, and I have a back up kit to build over the winter too, and that one will be stock with removable bells...

    It’s too late to hack this one apart and try to move/shorten the MMT so I’ll have to add more nose weight and pray!!!

    Thanks for any ideas or suggestions!
    Franz in NJ
     
  12. Jul 16, 2019 #222

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    That's a while lotta gold!!!!
     
  13. Jul 16, 2019 #223

    Homer_S

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    Looks like you won something... add the roll patterns in a darker gold and go with it!

    Homer
     
  14. Jul 16, 2019 #224

    Bat-mite

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    Or copper, or silver.
     
  15. Jul 16, 2019 #225

    FreeFlighter

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    You know... The REAL SATURN V was launched today- July 16.

    I 'rebuilt" my brother's Estes model, that he built and crashed, many years ago. Really, I just cobbled it back together with parts I made -up to look kind of like the original, from some distance away.
    Today, I want to fly it with an "E" motor. My brother flew it with a "D" engine, and it crashed. I've have not been paying attention, and am unsure if "D" and "E" engines share the same diameter. Do they?
     
  16. Jul 16, 2019 #226

    FreeFlighter

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    This is my cobbled - up repair of my brother's Saturn V.

    It is a 2157.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Jul 16, 2019 #227

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    A motor in the 24mm size will fit.
    A 24mm E will work good.
     
  18. Jul 16, 2019 #228

    Jay Chladek

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    Flight report:

    I flew my 1969 today as part of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 launch. Motor was an Estes E30-4T composite. This was the first flight of the rocket, but I intend it to be the only flight, hence the reason for "going for broke" on the first try when a E15 is the recommended first flight motor.

    Two bricks of clay were put in the nose, not four. Earlier Saturns don't call for any clay, but that is on D12 power and I figure Estes wanted the CG out further since E motors are a little heavier. For my build I also reinforced a few of the exterior protrusions with 2 part epoxy putty, which should also move the CG forward. But some putty was used in the fin fairings, which would be apt to bring the CG back.

    Prep of the rocket was as recommended by Estes and the recovery wadding recommendation was perfect.

    Boost was solid and stright up with an ever so slight weather cocking to compensate for the wind. It ascended right over my head. Ejection charge went off as advertised right at 4 seconds. One main chute had perfect deploy, second one finally unfurled after about 15 seconds. The 18 inch chute on the S-IVB capsule section never did fully deploy, but it acted enough like a streamer that the nose landed safely on the grass. Only damage was the escape tower popped its glue seams at the BPC, but no damage to the plastic at all. It survived the boost and ejection charge just fine. I just put the tower tabs back into the BPC holes and it is as good as new.

    The main body tube landed exactly straight up and down and took no damage at all to the fairings on the nicely manicured soccer field I landed on. When both main chutes open, she lands fine. Under a single chute... might be a dodgy prospect.

    One anomoly uncovered, the power of the composite ejection charge in the Estes motor. Post flight inspection revealed the motor casing was sitting half out of the engine mount hook by about 3/4ths of an inch. Plus, the round die cut bulkhead that sits in the center of the S-IVB tube transition section at first looked to be missing. But closer inspection revealed it got blasted forward into the S-IVB tube. If the SLA cone (which I glued in tighter last night) hadn't been there, it might have blown the nose clean off the bird with no guarantee the chutes would have come out.

    Recommendation: If you fly with an E-30 composite, recommend checking the sections that will be touched by the ejection charge, because in a tighter body tube setting you could end up blasting a nose cone off completely. Don't always trust the engine hook either.

    Date: July 16, 2019
    Time: 10:52 am Central Time
    Location: Papillion, NE

    Estimated altitude, about 300 feet.

    Next time I build a Saturn V I go three engine cluster.

    Still photos and video coming soon.
     
  19. Jul 17, 2019 #229

    dpower

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    I configured mine to balance at the top of the center roll pattern, fully loaded with engines & recovery system. It flies with 5 motors (D12+4xC6), no engine bells, both flights have been *very* straight & stable off a 5' long 1/4" rod. 2nd flight was in moderate winds, maybe 7-8mph. It'll fly a couple more times this weekend.
     
  20. Jul 17, 2019 #230

    dpower

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    That gold looks kind of cool, reminscent of the 50th anniversary Golden Scout. It does need roll patterns, though. :D I'd suggest a clear coat over the metallic, then mask & paint the roll patterns. That'll prevent the tape from taking the sheen off the metallic.
     
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  21. Jul 17, 2019 #231

    Mailman

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    That’s my plan. I finished the decals that won’t be covered by the roll pattern and tomorrow we’re clear coating them in. Then lots of masking. Woot woot
     
  22. Jul 17, 2019 #232

    Jay Chladek

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    Here's my flight video. Albeit once she launches not much to see. But you can hear the ejection charge pop as it is loud.

     
  23. Jul 17, 2019 #233

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    Nice! I love the excitement when the 2nd chute opened.
     
  24. Jul 17, 2019 #234

    ascastil

    ascastil

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    Well I uploaded a Saturn V file to Rocksim. I made some quick changes just to experiment. I added the 29mm mount with plywood rings and added a few ounces at the tail end for the engine bells. I also added 2oz in the nose and changed the chutes to nylon. On a G64 its stable and climbs to nearly 2000 feet. Again, this was just me quickly changing a few things. I'll have to go over the file in more detail but it just might work.

    Just remembered I'll have to weigh the Boyce Aerospace fin assemblies and add those also. I have hope though.
     
  25. Jul 18, 2019 #235

    RocketManMike

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    Hello Everyone,

    I've been a lurker on this forum for a long time. I wanted to share my recent experience with the launch of my Estes #1969 Saturn V. I spent about 30+ hours on it. I post a picture below taken before my July 16th launch to celebrate Apollo 11. I'd rate this build a B+ effort since I made a couple of small mistakes.

    IMG_0273 - Copy.jpg

    I launched her on July 16th with an E12-4 (with 4 pats of clay in the nose). It took off straight and true until just before apogee, when it started to corkscrew a bit. Then the real problem began. The ejection charge blew and the SIVB/Apollo spacecraft section came down under its parachute -- safely. But the two parachutes in the SIC/SII section did NOT deploy at all. The bottom section became a lawn dart, causing substantial damage to the first 5" of the main body tube when it hit. Ironically the bottom of the rocket, including fins, are all fine. I'd post the video but still hurts too much to watch.

    Anyway, I started the tear-down last night to begin repairs. It took considerable effort to remove the spent E12-4 from the rocket. Then I noticed that the aft centering ring had cracked about 1" around on the glue joint with the BT101 body tube. (I used tight-bond yellow glue.) Looking inside the stuffer/engine tube, I noticed it was partially obstructed. So I got my Dremel out and completely removed the engine mount/stuffer tube. Then I noticed this:

    IMG_0327.jpg IMG_0326.jpg
    Now I know why it corkscrewed near the end of powered flight and why the parachutes did not deploy. The thrust of the engine deformed/partially destroyed the engine/stuffer tube, cracked the aft centering ring, causing the engine to tilt slightly. There are also some small holes in the tube where it deformed, which may have contributed to the failed ejection of the main parachutes.

    I built it stock and followed the directions exactly. I'd tried to build her on the lighter side; she weighed in at 13.5 ounces (no engine but fully packed with parachutes, 4 pats of clay, and wadding). I'm going to contact Estes about this. Not to complain, but to point out that these thin tubes may not be up to the job for an E engine.

    So, replacement parts are on order (wraps, decals, etc.). I've already built a new engine/stuffer tube (donor parts from a #2157 kit that was sitting in my closet), and I'm using epoxy, doubling up the thickness of the tubing in the engine section, and adding some balsa supports to add rigidity and strength to the lower section.

    A real bummer, but I have no regrets launching her and she will fly again. In late August.

    I post this to celebrate the 50th anniversary with all of you and with the hope that what I share here may help you to avoid what happened to me as you build this great kit.

    Keep … moving .. forward.
     
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  26. Jul 18, 2019 #236

    kuririn

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    Email Estes customer service, attach the pictures above. You may be surprised.
    Moving forward, perhaps an ST-9 tube instead of a BT-50 would be better?
    A little thicker and sturdier. Cheers.
     
  27. Jul 18, 2019 #237

    RocketManMike

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    Kuririn,

    Yes indeed. I had a 6" piece of ST-9 in my junk box, so, on my new engine mount, after building it, I sliced it down the middle and glued it around the section of the tube that deformed last time. That should help. I'm also going to add two 1/4" balsa struts along the sides of the tube between the aft centering ring and the middle centering ring to help distribute the force more evenly along the length of the tube. And the middle centering ring will now be glued to the BT101 since I had to lop off about 5 inches off the top of the BT101 to add a replacement section (with coupler). The BT101 tube joint will be hidden under the new interstage wrap, so the fix should not be visible....
     
  28. Jul 18, 2019 #238

    kuririn

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  29. Jul 18, 2019 #239

    RocketManMike

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    I'll be damned. That's it exactly. Thank you for sharing that report. Those of you still building your Saturn Vs may want to read this article.....
     
  30. Jul 19, 2019 #240

    RocketManMike

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    Here's a picture to show the changes: IMG_0330.jpg
     

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