Electric Match Sourcing? (Are they all the same?)

[majordude]

I'm interested in getting started with duel-deploy. Who sells suitable matches/FFFF powder?

 

[OzHybrid]

I'm interested in getting started with duel-deploy. Who sells suitable matches/FFFF powder?

Firstly, go with dual deploy. Duels are dangerous.
Talk to your club members regarding sourcing your ejection requirements. They'll know the local answers You can quite easily make your own matches. But nothing's as reliable as one from a proper manufacturer. MJG comes to mind...

 

[davidb123]

Chris’ Rocket Supplies is a great source for both. You can also find Chinese made ematches on eBay for cheaper, but their quality is not as great. I use them only for ground testing.

https://www.csrocketry.com/recovery-supplies/ejection-supplies.html

 

[Neutronium95]

I exclusively use MJG firewires, after hearing about some unreliable Chinese ematches. The sites with the best pricing that I'm aware of are Pyroboom and Cobra Firing Systems.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Are these also suitable for igniting motors (BP and composite)?

 

[Neutronium95]

Are these also suitable for igniting motors (BP and composite)?

Ematches are suitable for lighting some motors.

The head might be too big to fit up the nozzle of some black powder motors. MJG makes a smaller version for black powder motor ignition.

Most 24-54mm Cesaroni motors come with regular MJG ematches for ignition. They use an ignition pellet in the top grain that's lit by the ematch, which then lights the rest of the motor.

You might be able to light small composite motors with just an ematch, but for most applications you'll need to boost its performance somehow. There are several different pyrogen dips out on the market that can be used, or you can attach a small piece of fast burning propellant to the ematch.

 

[jsdemar]

Are these also suitable for igniting motors (BP and composite)?

For BP starters, see MJG: https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
For ematches, see: https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/36/6/mjg-firewire-initiater

Both of those can be dipped in BKNO3-Viton pyrogen to start composite motors. Pyrogen kits are available as ProCast from Quickburst. Also available from Apogee.

 

[mtnmanak]

+1 on MJG. Everything else is a crap shoot - MJG always works.

For FFFF, not sure when GOEX will become readily available again, but Buffalo Arms appears to have Schuetzen available right now. I have ordered from Buffalo Arms before and they were legit and reliable.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/schuetzen-4-f-black-powder-sch4f.html

 

[86mustang408w]

Apogee sells a kit that makes like 80 or something, Chris's Rocket supplies, Amazon, etc. You can make them too, don't listen to above about DD being dangerous. If done correctly they are not, and a requirement for L3....Good luck, Google how to make them and watch YouTube you'll find plenty of info..

 

[mtnmanak]

Apogee sells a kit that makes like 80 or something, Chris's Rocket supplies, Amazon, etc. You can make them too, don't listen to above about DD being dangerous. If done correctly they are not, and a requirement for L3....Good luck, Google how to make them and watch YouTube you'll find plenty of info..

I am pretty sure that "dangerous" was a sarcastic humorous comment about using "duel" vs "dual"

 

[86mustang408w]

I am pretty sure that "dangerous" was a sarcastic comment about using "duel" vs "dual"

Oh ok. I came over from Facebook it takes a minute to so to realize I'm actually on Earth again.

 

[OzHybrid]

I am pretty sure that "dangerous" was a sarcastic comment about using "duel" vs "dual"

Duel deployment is at 10 paces. Dual deployment is at apogee and another height closer to the ground. I thought I was being comedic and providing a practical solution. That wasn't close to me being sarcastic.....
Norm

 

[cbrarick]

DON"T make you own, ever. It's just not worth it. Why try to save $1 while risking your several hundred (or thousand) dollar rocket?
The economics do not make sense.
If your budget is that tight, fly a H vice a I once.

 

[mtnmanak]

DON"T make you own, ever. It's just not worth it. Why try to save $1 while risking your several hundred (or thousand) dollar rocket?
The economics do not make sense.
If your budget is that tight, fly a H vice a I once.

I don't know, maybe once

 

[prfesser]

DON"T make you own, ever. It's just not worth it. Why try to save $1 while risking your several hundred (or thousand) dollar rocket?
The economics do not make sense.
If your budget is that tight, fly a H vice a I once.

Qualifier: don't use homemade ematches for anything but ignition of a single motor on the ground. Trusting a deployment system to homemade ematches is a recipe for unhappiness.

I spoke to a guy at one launch who boasted that his ematches never failed. Watched him fly a DD rocket that used his ematches. Fail.

 

[86mustang408w]

DON"T make you own, ever. It's just not worth it. Why try to save $1 while risking your several hundred (or thousand) dollar rocket?
The economics do not make sense.
If your budget is that tight, fly a H vice a I once.

They seem to be pretty cheap to buy, I'm looking now for some. What's a better brand? Well a reliable brand I should say..

 

[86mustang408w]

Qualifier: don't use homemade ematches for anything but ignition of a single motor on the ground. Trusting a deployment system to homemade ematches is a recipe for unhappiness.

I spoke to a guy at one launch who boasted that his ematches never failed. Watched him fly a DD rocket that used his ematches. Fail.

I'm just getting into e-matches, what do you prefer? Thank you.

 

[beeblebrox]

+1 on MJG. Everything else is a crap shoot - MJG always works.

For FFFF, not sure when GOEX will become readily available again, but Buffalo Arms appears to have Schuetzen available right now. I have ordered from Buffalo Arms before and they were legit and reliable.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/schuetzen-4-f-black-powder-sch4f.html

Brand of black powder is irrelevant for parachute charges. The very slight difference from GOEX to Scheutzen to Swiss would only be noticed in competition with black powder guns. I have a few containers of Swiss bought from Buffalo. For BP charges I use 3F in bigger rockets over 4" As for e-matches, I have not personally had any issues with the Chinese ones. I have had problems with the MJG small black powder ones. They don't "Burn" they explode and will not light dipped pyrogen on top of them.

So -1 on MJG, I have been meaning to contact them but am too busy...

Although... This topic started as Dual Deploy, not lighting motors... I have not tried any of the MJG black powder motor starters for my dual deploy charge wells, I have always used the Chinese e-Matches. (I don't get them from any source in China, I get them from firework supply locations in the USA. Not necessarily looking at any difference in quality, but difference in shipping time. maybe a week, vs up to six months.)

 

[cwbullet]

Qualifier: don't use homemade ematches for anything but ignition of a single motor on the ground. Trusting a deployment system to homemade ematches is a recipe for unhappiness.

I spoke to a guy at one launch who boasted that his ematches never failed. Watched him fly a DD rocket that used his ematches. Fail.

Concur. I have made many ematches over my lifetime and use them to light rockets and fireworks. I would never trust my own to deployment and I have had a lot fo success making them.

 

[cwbullet]

I'm just getting into e-matches, what do you prefer? Thank you.

https://electricmatch.com/
That is your best source.

 

[beeblebrox]

Duel deployment is at 10 paces. Dual deployment is at apogee and another height closer to the ground. I thought I was being comedic and providing a practical solution. That wasn't close to me being sarcastic.....
Norm

I read that as a comedic statement...

 

[prfesser]

I'm just getting into e-matches, what do you prefer? Thank you.

I haven't used them personally---it's been some time since I flew electronic deployment--- but MJG matches seem to be the weapon of choice on TRF.

 

[thomas]

I think the best e-matches come from companies, who also make the ones for airbags or electric detonators.
Sobbe, Astotec (former Schaffler)
https://www.sobbe-zuender.de
https://automotive.astotec.com

It is also a good idea, to use two different companies, for primary and backup ignition, just in case there is a bad batch.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Apogee sells a kit that makes like 80 or something, Chris's Rocket supplies, Amazon, etc. You can make them too, don't listen to above about DD being dangerous. If done correctly they are not, and a requirement for L3....Good luck, Google how to make them and watch YouTube you'll find plenty of info..

Sorry to correct you, but dual deployment is not a requirement for L3. Electronic deployment is and redundant primary electronics are, but not dual deployment.

 

[86mustang408w]

Sorry to correct you, but dual deployment is not a requirement for L3. Electronic deployment is and redundant primary electronics are, but not dual deployment.

No, you can correct me. I'm on a phone most times and its terribly hard(and time consuming)to type out long sentences. But thank you for clarifying that I should have wrote more or differently. I was told by someone recently that dual deployment was a requirement for L3. I knew there were some requirements but not sure exactly what. I'm not anywhere near L3 yet. So I appreciate the correction I want to learn. I've used Google too and gone have back through threads for a few years, there is some very good threads and information by still active members which is great. Thank you again.

 

[cbrarick]

MJG is what I use. It's also the only unregulated ematch out there. It successfully was used on 4 flights at Black Rock, some extreme, the others just big.
I was a J-tek guy until unregulated was a reality.

https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/36/6/mjg-firewire-initiater

 

[kjhambrick]

For BP starters, see MJG: https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
For ematches, see: https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/36/6/mjg-firewire-initiater

Both of those can be dipped in BKNO3-Viton pyrogen to start composite motors. Pyrogen kits are available as ProCast from Quickburst. Also available from Apogee.

John --

I ordered but I have not yet received a box of MJG BP Rocket starters,

Will the 3mm heads fit thru any of the RMS 24/40 or RMS 18/20 reload nozzles ?

Maybe more importantly, will they pull out on liftoff ?

Thanks

-- kjh

 

[tsmith1315]

I spoke to a guy at one launch who boasted that his ematches never failed. Watched him fly a DD rocket that used his ematches. Fail.

And the rocket gods were clinking their steins and laughing out loud!

 

[jsdemar]

John --

I ordered but I have not yet received a box of MJG BP Rocket starters,

Will the 3mm heads fit thru any of the RMS 24/40 or RMS 18/20 reload nozzles ?

Maybe more importantly, will they pull out on liftoff ?

Thanks

-- kjh

I'm not sure about the 3mm heads fitting into various RMS nozzles. I guess anything over 1/8" throat diameter might work. It also depends on how much pyrogen it's dipped in.

 

[bad_idea]

I ordered but I have not yet received a box of MJG BP Rocket starters,

Will the 3mm heads fit thru any of the RMS 24/40 or RMS 18/20 reload nozzles ?

Maybe more importantly, will they pull out on liftoff ?

Konrad, bare they wouldn't fit either way through the nozzle of the 24/40 D15T when I tried, but they will fit though the E28T and F39T nozzles, bare or dipped. I can't recall if I tried one with the nozzle of an 18/20 reload or simply assumed it wouldn't fit based on experience with the D15. I acquired two packs of the discontinued 18/20 E27T yesterday, and I'm very curious whether the MJGs will fit.

As it happens, you helped me load BKNO3-dipped MJG BP starters into four E28s last weekend.