Disapearing Rockets.....

[James D]

Hey guys, I just launched my Quest Navaho 2 stage rocket on a C5-0 in the bottom stage and a C5-6 in the top stage. Now the manufacture reckons it will reach 2100ft (!) now i didnt belive this at the time - but I think I do now! It went up pretty straight and true.It was not particularly windy - about a 5knot wind, But I never saw the top stage again! In fact I never saw any kind of seperation! I just saw the bottom section tumbling back to earth!Didn't even see the bright red 'chute deploy. I was pretty peevedas you can imagine! I thought I'd be ok launching on the beach - its about 1 mile from sea to land when the tide is out. So I went and set up some where near the middle (about 1/2 mile from land).

Is there any way of stopping this happening?Can tracking devices be fitted to rockets that small? (24mm body tube).

James

 

[Hauptmann]

Hi James D,

I also have a Navaho. Yes, it does go out of sight. Two helpful tips:

1. Replace the parachute with a streamer. Mine is 12" long and 1" wide, made of mylar (but other materials will work). This will considerably cut down how far the rocket drifts.

2. Use tracking powder. If you've never used it, just go to your local Home Depot and pick up a bottle of carpenter's marking chalk. It comes in several colors, but I like the white stuff (colored stuff seems to stick to everything). After you pack your recovery device and shock cord into the rocket, crumple a square of wadding into sort of a little bag and fill it with the chalk (but don't twist it closed). Then put this in the body tube on top of the chute/streamer and shock cord. At ejection, the chalk powder will blow out and make a big dust cloud, making the ejection easier to spot.

I use the stuff all the time, and I can't tell you how many rockets I've lost sight of, only to pick up sight again at ejection due to the tracking powder cloud! Hope this helps.

 

[sandman]

James,

You are just going to have to buy some parts and replace the upper stage. But this time make it longer and add a payload section.

Estes makes a device called the Transroc II Rocket Locater. it has an audible tone and a listening device with a directional microphone. The unit will fit in an 18mm body tube. Unfortunately it is about $44.00 US.

Or you can make this device. It is really really LOUD.

https://www.rocketryonline.com/Search/db_search.cgi?setup_file=Tech&submit_search=yes&db_id=7

The powdered chalk helps too.

I didn't use my own advice last Saturday and lost my Black Brant II in a wheat field.

Good Luck,

sandman

 

[James D]

Thanks for the advice, I will definatly use the powdered chalk and add a streamer and for any larger rockets I build a traking device. I really didnt think it would go so high!!It just went WOOSH! and disapeared! I just had time to look up and it was gone - I was really shocked! It was ust loke a hand of god decided to drop the tail section out the sky! Quite bizzare.

Lesson to be learned though:

a) on first flights dont use the biggest engine it will take.
b)use untryed engines (it was my first C launch) on a test bird to see how they perform.
c) trust the manufactures advice - if it says it goes high it will!

Well it was certainly experience which will be "bagged"!

James

 

[Hauptmann]

Originally posted by James D
Lesson to be learned though:

a) on first flights dont use the biggest engine it will take.
b)use untryed engines (it was my first C launch) on a test bird to see how they perform.
c) trust the manufactures advice - if it says it goes high it will!

James

Indeed, right on all counts.

It just went WOOSH! and disapeared! I just had time to look up and it was gone - I was really shocked!

Sounds like launching an Estes Mosquito. I think more than a few of us have seen a Mosquito get "vaporized" on the launch pad.

 

[Mike]

That tracking dust idea is very good I think I ought to get some for my first multi-stage launch which should be happening as soon as the weather is better.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Stymye]

forget the high dollar "rocketry" alarms ....ive found those panic alarms that go on a keychain work great
the type that are real loud when you pull the pin.about $5.00
clip it onto the nose.and tape the body of it to the shockcord
at ejection it pulls out the pin and these things are loud!

 

[Mike]

I got round to using the powder technique quite recently, I made a small capsule to hold the powder instead of wadding. I took about 5cm of BT-20 then put a piece of balsa in the end to produce a cup. Then I screwed an eylet into the balsa and tied about a 10cm length of string to it. To put it into the rocket I prepped as normal then put the capsule alongside the parachute and tied the string to the shock cord above the parachute. Then fill the cup with powder and you're ready to go.

As i wanted to test this I decided to use a low altitude rocket, my Code Red RTF on a B6-4, and it worked better that I thought. Once the nosecone came off and the rocket began to fall the capsule left a streak of powder then the sudden jerk of the parachute opening made the rest of the powder release in a nice plume. Excellent.

 

[sandman]

Mike,

I really like your "piston cup" method of holding the tracking powder.

That sound like a better alternative to just dumping the powder into the end of the rocket, that always makes a mess anyway.

Now if you make the "piston cup" big enough for a loose fit you might not even need much wadding.

I like it!

sandman

 

[BigL]

Can someone tell me more about this piston cup? I am very interested in using tracking powder but dont want it to stick to the finish of the rockets. Are there any pictures of this cup?

 

[astronboy]

Ever since the early 1970's I have used baby powder when packing the chute, and as tracking powder. It works great.

For multi-stage rockets, I like the B6-0 booster w/a B4-6 sustainer. I have retrieved my sustainer stages every time with this combination, but I have lost 3 upper stages with the C6-0, C6-7 combo.

 

[spacecowboy]

the generic brand of baby powder is the easiest and cheapest idea.
bdhiii showed me the trick.
I just wish there was a good way to leave a trail of it on upper stages.
I had my new financee spot the puff, heck, I lost the whole Black Brant in the sky on a D12-3. Followed her line of sight, tracing the wind (yeah, I sail sailboats too) and found that joker well over 1/2 mile away AND this roc was on streamers only.
Unless you've got a monster field, C-engine anything on mults is a good way to lose a roc. So are D's on single stage.
Trust me, I put Comanche up on d12-0, c6-0 and c6-7, I never found one piece of that roc, and I saw all 3 stages including upper reco.
Occasionally, you have to sit back, after losing one, and say that was a totally groovy flight !

 

[Mike]

Originally posted by BigL
Can someone tell me more about this piston cup? I am very interested in using tracking powder but dont want it to stick to the finish of the rockets. Are there any pictures of this cup?

OK I made the cup as i described earlier in the thread, basically just blocking one end of a short length of tube. I've got a few pictures of the cup for you to see. The first is a closer picture of the cup so you can see how its made.

 

[Mike]

The second photo is the cup attached to the shockcord of it's test vehicle, my RTF Code Red. I'm yet to acctually test this in a situation where it might be needed.

 

[Mike]

The final picture is of the cup in position in the rocket next to the parachute, it is important to make sure the parachute isn't too stiff in the tube especially now there an extra object there. If it is too tight try refolding the chute, or you could make a smaller diameter one.

This method does need wadding but it is very good for containing the powder and should keep your rocket pretty clean .

I took note of Sandman's earlier suggestion of eliminating the need for wadding by making into a true piston cup and I am working on somthing to solve that.

HTH

 

[saxophone]

I've lost my share of top stage Navahos. As a result, I have quite a collection of boosters. I modified one booster to hold a 24mm motor like a D12-0. I took it to a dry lake bed and launched a 3-stage Navaho with a D12-0, C6-0, and C6-7.
I replaced the chute with several streamers including one very long brightly colored streamer. I managed to track the rocket (having additional pairs of eyes helps too). It took a very long time for that sucker to come down, and I had to walk about a 1/4 to 1/2 a mile to get it. But I got it back.

 

[jetra2]

I think I read earlier on this forum that some people were using foil cupcake things to hold their tracking powder!

Jason

 

[BigL]

After reading your instructions, I built my own cup out of an engine mount, thin balsa, and an eyelet.I havent tried it out yet but I think I need to after the 5 launches today. I launched an X-flyer on a C6-7 and boy did that thing make a hole in the clouds. It must have gone 2000 feet. Can someone calculate this on Rocksim? Some guys that were building a house helped me track it down up the hill in a ditch by a busy road. It's a miracle that the rocket didn't get squashed. I also launched my Baby Bertha , which I completed last night. Tested it out on a B6-4, after all, I didnt want to lose it or have it crushed on the first flight. It was a good decision since the brand new parachute melted together upon ejection and never opened. I was also lucky enough for it to land in a dirt pile, and the fins werent damaged.