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stealth6 said:
So, it looks like there are going to be LOTS of cars, trash, infrastructure, and "stuff" left out there. LOTS.

On the one hand, can't say I really blame anyone, as just getting out of there looked like trouble enough.
On the other hand, wow what an unholy freaking mess to leave.....and I'm very much not happy about it.
On the other hand (yep, three hands) I'm not really sure what I myself would do (would have done) if I was in that situation.
On the other hand, seems to me that it would be an awful nice gesture if a few of the ultra-rich folk who attended put up whatever money it takes to go back and clean up the freaking mess they all made. (and yes, that's four hands). I can guarantee you that the vast majority of attendees have no plans whatsoever to return when it all dries out and get their crap.
On the (fifth) hand, wanna take bets on how long (like in years) a lot of crap will remain out there?

Next time any of y'all head out there (to fly rockets!), perhaps it would be a good idea to plan on having some space to haul out some discarded junk when you leave. And I VERY much hope the weather don't do to you what it did to these folk.

peace, love, & rockets,
s6
Click to expand...

I’ve been going to BALLS since 2010. Even though we get there a good couple of weeks after BM, there is still a large crew from BM cleaning up the mess. One of the conditions the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) puts on large events out on the playa is basically “leave no trace”, and that applies to BM. It may take months, but they (the BM organizers) will get it cleaned up.

BALLS attendees are given a fair amount of instructions on what not do and that failure to follow the BLM guidelines may jeopardize our ability to return. The BALLS organizers do a good job of reminding us to leave no trace.

A number of years ago there was some friction between the BM cleaners and BALLS attendees, and as a result the road to our launch area is better marked and steers clear of Black Rock City.


Tony
 
Last edited:
MClark said:
I’m happy for them
We are the last people to criticize doing strange things in the desert
Click to expand...
IMHO the level of strange at BM is at least three orders of magnitude beyond BALLS. Some activities that have occurred over the years:
  • Roller coaster; riders must remove all clothing first---if they haven't already.
  • The Little Free Porn Shop, open all week.
  • Fencing. Not with foil or epee, but with certain double-ended rubber...implements...not often found outside the bedroom or specialty shops.
  • 900 gallons of jet fuel, 2000 gallons of liquid propane make a 300-foot tall mushroom cloud. Okay, kinda cool, I guess...
  • Art: a model of the ISS. Or MIR, can't tell. About 1/5 scale, I'd guess.
  • A temple complete with chandelier, wherein one can get married. Legally. Bring your marriage license.
  • A speed competition. The winner is the male who can most rapidly...demonstrate the gallant reflex in toto, shall we say? Hands forbidden.
  • On entry your vehicle will be searched. Drugs? Fine. Fireworks? Ho hum. Adult entertainment devices? No problem. But freeloaders who haven't bought a ticket are toast. Wonder if they have to walk back to Reno...
At least pooping in public is forbidden. Though that rule probably took a ride this year.

After all that and more...I dunno, launching big rockets in a barren area seems quite normal. I'm biased, of course. :)

(And now I'm wondering about BM2024. No, of course I'm not planning on attending. Just a thought. Not really. Probably not. Hmm....when do tickets go on sale?;))
 
prfesser said:
IMHO the level of strange at BM is at least three orders of magnitude beyond BALLS. Some activities that have occurred over the years:
  • Roller coaster; riders must remove all clothing first---if they haven't already.
  • The Little Free Porn Shop, open all week.
  • Fencing. Not with foil or epee, but with certain double-ended rubber...implements...not often found outside the bedroom or specialty shops.
  • 900 gallons of jet fuel, 2000 gallons of liquid propane make a 300-foot tall mushroom cloud. Okay, kinda cool, I guess...
  • Art: a model of the ISS. Or MIR, can't tell. About 1/5 scale, I'd guess.
  • A temple complete with chandelier, wherein one can get married. Legally. Bring your marriage license.
  • A speed competition. The winner is the male who can most rapidly...demonstrate the gallant reflex in toto, shall we say? Hands forbidden.
  • On entry your vehicle will be searched. Drugs? Fine. Fireworks? Ho hum. Adult entertainment devices? No problem. But freeloaders who haven't bought a ticket are toast. Wonder if they have to walk back to Reno...
At least pooping in public is forbidden. Though that rule probably took a ride this year.

After all that and more...I dunno, launching big rockets in a barren area seems quite normal. I'm biased, of course. :)

(And now I'm wondering about BM2024. No, of course I'm not planning on attending. Just a thought. Not really. Probably not. Hmm....when do tickets go on sale?;))
Click to expand...
lurch.jpg
 
I don't understand the schadenfreude about Burning Man's troubles this year. Are we in competition with them?

I've attended once (in 2000) and it was a pretty cool thing with lots of interesting art, both active and static. Sure lots of people get naked and do stupid stuff, but that doesn't bother me.
 
JohnCoker said:
I don't understand the schadenfreude about Burning Man's troubles this year. Are we in competition with them?
Click to expand...
I wonder if maybe it comes from a feeling that if Burning Man messes things up with BLM too badly, rocketry could be significantly impacted.
 
prfesser said:
IMHO the level of strange at BM is at least three orders of magnitude beyond BALLS. Some activities that have occurred over the years:
  • Roller coaster; riders must remove all clothing first---if they haven't already.
  • The Little Free Porn Shop, open all week.
  • Fencing. Not with foil or epee, but with certain double-ended rubber...implements...not often found outside the bedroom or specialty shops.
  • 900 gallons of jet fuel, 2000 gallons of liquid propane make a 300-foot tall mushroom cloud. Okay, kinda cool, I guess...
  • Art: a model of the ISS. Or MIR, can't tell. About 1/5 scale, I'd guess.
  • A temple complete with chandelier, wherein one can get married. Legally. Bring your marriage license.
  • A speed competition. The winner is the male who can most rapidly...demonstrate the gallant reflex in toto, shall we say? Hands forbidden.
  • On entry your vehicle will be searched. Drugs? Fine. Fireworks? Ho hum. Adult entertainment devices? No problem. But freeloaders who haven't bought a ticket are toast. Wonder if they have to walk back to Reno...
At least pooping in public is forbidden. Though that rule probably took a ride this year.

After all that and more...I dunno, launching big rockets in a barren area seems quite normal. I'm biased, of course. :)

(And now I'm wondering about BM2024. No, of course I'm not planning on attending. Just a thought. Not really. Probably not. Hmm....when do tickets go on sale?;))
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good time.... When is it next year??? ;)
 
cls said:
Hi John, for your consideration:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...e-burning-man-schadenfreude-where-do-i-start-

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/06/burning-man-wealthy-attendees

Plenty more similar opinion writing floating around...
Click to expand...

In that second link...
Another great enthusiast is the rightwing anti-taxation activist Grover Norquist, who also spent time there this summer. Of Burning Man’s affinity for his own rightwing politics, Norquist has said: “There’s no government that organizes this. That’s what happens when nobody tells you what to do. You just figure it out. So Burning Man is a refutation of the argument that the state has a place in nature.”
Click to expand...

The entire event is predicated on the availability of BLM land. [Politics edited by mods] We hold it collectively, we use it collectively. It is available to all, subject to regulated restrictions and minimal supervision. Without the collective of government, someone would have put a fence around that place to keep people out and charge admission. [Profanity deleted].
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SDramstad said:
Sounds like a good time.... When is it next year??? ;)
Click to expand...
Not injecting politics but the ticket price seems a trifle....capitalistic....for an activity that within sounds like a socialist system to a great degree. $725 'in the door', minimum. Well, $595 if you walk in. From Reno... Anyway, within BM most 'purchases' are in-kind exchange. Barter, if you will. Someone who's been there can correct me.

This site says Sunday 25 August - Monday 4 September 2024. I don't know the terminology below but...

・FOMO sale: Approximately 4,000 tickets available, 1,000 at $2,750 each, and 3,000 at $1,500 plus applicable fees and taxes.

・Main sale: Approximately 15,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 5,000 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

・OMG sale: Approximately 3,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 1,500 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

Then there's three days driving (two with a partner I suppose), gas, hotels and meals in between, bring food and water along for sustenance during the activity. And find someone crazy enough to go along cuz I ain't goin alone.

Anyway, if I go through all that to get from PartsUnknown KY to Black Rock... imma attend BALLS instead. For $700+ I could build a helluva rocket or two. Rethinking attendance... 😄
 
stealth6 said:
So, it looks like there are going to be LOTS of cars, trash, infrastructure, and "stuff" left out there. LOTS.

On the one hand, can't say I really blame anyone, as just getting out of there looked like trouble enough.
On the other hand, wow what an unholy freaking mess to leave.....and I'm very much not happy about it.
On the other hand (yep, three hands) I'm not really sure what I myself would do (would have done) if I was in that situation.
On the other hand, seems to me that it would be an awful nice gesture if a few of the ultra-rich folk who attended put up whatever money it takes to go back and clean up the freaking mess they all made. (and yes, that's four hands). I can guarantee you that the vast majority of attendees have no plans whatsoever to return when it all dries out and get their crap.
On the (fifth) hand, wanna take bets on how long (like in years) a lot of crap will remain out there?

Next time any of y'all head out there (to fly rockets!), perhaps it would be a good idea to plan on having some space to haul out some discarded junk when you leave. And I VERY much hope the weather don't do to you what it did to these folk.

peace, love, & rockets,
s6
Click to expand...
Wow ! Three-eyed shrimp and a five-handed rocketeer, all in one thread !

Now, that's science :)

-- kjh
 
prfesser said:
Not injecting politics but the ticket price seems a trifle....capitalistic....for an activity that within sounds like a socialist system to a great degree. $725 'in the door', minimum. Well, $595 if you walk in. From Reno... Anyway, within BM most 'purchases' are in-kind exchange. Barter, if you will. Someone who's been there can correct me.

This site says Sunday 25 August - Monday 4 September 2024. I don't know the terminology below but...

・FOMO sale: Approximately 4,000 tickets available, 1,000 at $2,750 each, and 3,000 at $1,500 plus applicable fees and taxes.

・Main sale: Approximately 15,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 5,000 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

・OMG sale: Approximately 3,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 1,500 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

Then there's three days driving (two with a partner I suppose), gas, hotels and meals in between, bring food and water along for sustenance during the activity. And find someone crazy enough to go along cuz I ain't goin alone.

Anyway, if I go through all that to get from PartsUnknown KY to Black Rock... imma attend BALLS instead. For $700+ I could build a helluva rocket or two. Rethinking attendance... 😄
Click to expand...
What in God's green earth (well, tan out there) do they provide for such exorbitant fees? A stick man to burn and a big clean-up crew?
 
Last edited:
So it's been confirmed that the one death during this event was unrelated to the weather. Is it okay we make fun now?
 
prfesser said:
Not injecting politics but the ticket price seems a trifle....capitalistic....for an activity that within sounds like a socialist system to a great degree. $725 'in the door', minimum. Well, $595 if you walk in. From Reno... Anyway, within BM most 'purchases' are in-kind exchange. Barter, if you will. Someone who's been there can correct me.

This site says Sunday 25 August - Monday 4 September 2024. I don't know the terminology below but...

・FOMO sale: Approximately 4,000 tickets available, 1,000 at $2,750 each, and 3,000 at $1,500 plus applicable fees and taxes.

・Main sale: Approximately 15,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 5,000 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

・OMG sale: Approximately 3,000 tickets at $575 each, and approximately 1,500 vehicle passes available at $150 each, plus applicable fees and taxes.

Then there's three days driving (two with a partner I suppose), gas, hotels and meals in between, bring food and water along for sustenance during the activity. And find someone crazy enough to go along cuz I ain't goin alone.

Anyway, if I go through all that to get from PartsUnknown KY to Black Rock... imma attend BALLS instead. For $700+ I could build a helluva rocket or two. Rethinking attendance... 😄
Click to expand...
If they just sell the tickets, that's 18.5M -costs.
 
DAllen said:
So it's been confirmed that the one death during this event was unrelated to the weather. Is it okay we make fun now?
Click to expand...
The weather probably cut down on the number of rapes, which is a good thing.
 
jderimig said:
The weather probably cut down on the number of rapes, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Confused Question Mark GIF by Fall Out Boy
 
cerving said:
So, on the topic of Black Rock... is the playa going to be OK for the three major launches coming up in a few weeks?
Click to expand...
Looks like yes: zero precipitation forecast for next 2 weeks, 80F days, 50s nights.

But, it'll be a thin dry crust on top, probably the lowest spots would be soggy. So take care driving, don't break through the top.
 
At the last launch out at BR..pulled one guy out of the mud/water twice.
Another nonrocketry guy/group..was very stuck and way out..tow from town said no.
Took a trip to Fernley to buy 18 tow straps. To get him out..
20230907_094247.jpg

I'll be out there on Tuesday for ARLISS/XPRS

Then back out for Balls.

Tony
 
tfish said:
At the last launch out at BR..pulled one guy out of the mud/water twice.
Another nonrocketry guy/group..was very stuck and way out..tow from town said no.
Took a trip to Fernley to buy 18 tow straps. To get him out..
View attachment 602777

I'll be out there on Tuesday for ARLISS/XPRS

Then back out for Balls.

Tony
Click to expand...
Tow straps can also be effective to help retrieve a rocket that has become 'stuck' in the playa. Not that I have any personal experience, or anything, other than a few straps that were cut by a fin.


Tony
 
Went in 2008. Left Sunday from Vegas so we could get there at midnight. Two hours out, realized forgot my ticket. Had to go back so missed rendezvous with friends who got there hours earlier. We arrived just at midnight and they let us right in. Our friends were stuck in a waiting area to be let in. They finally rolled in around 4am. Burners are not strangers to waiting in long lines to get in on the first day. Just unusual to wait in line to leave the day after the event closed.

Anyways, see you at XPRS/ARLISS on Tuesday.

IMG_1591.jpeg
 
My nephew attended BM this year and he's been attending for many years. As soon as my Sister texted my that he was on his way out I texted him and asked him to save me some samples of the mud caked on his boots/car/equipment. He texted my back & said he would.

I'm from Duluth, MN and the south shore area (Wisconsin) is mostly red clay. I built a cabin on some property I bought and it was all red clay. I had a small incline in the road in and one day after it had been raining I tried getting in and when I got to that incline my wheels started spinning. So I shut the car off, opened the door to get out, and when I shut the door the car slid backwards about 8 feet. Clay can get really slick under the right conditions. So I want to what the properties of BRD clay is like.
 
Greg Furtman said:
My nephew attended BM this year and he's been attending for many years. As soon as my Sister texted my that he was on his way out I texted him and asked him to save me some samples of the mud caked on his boots/car/equipment. He texted my back & said he would.

I'm from Duluth, MN and the south shore area (Wisconsin) is mostly red clay. I built a cabin on some property I bought and it was all red clay. I had a small incline in the road in and one day after it had been raining I tried getting in and when I got to that incline my wheels started spinning. So I shut the car off, opened the door to get out, and when I shut the door the car slid backwards about 8 feet. Clay can get really slick under the right conditions. So I want to what the properties of BRD clay is like.
Click to expand...
It's mostly calcium. When the continent pushed up and the oceans receded, the lakes dried creating an evaporated brine bottom. The main problem is that when it rains, there's a crust on top that's easy to break through with about an inch of powder underneath. Difficult at times to ride a bicycle over. When it turns into a lake, it basically turns into putty.

https://www.britannica.com/science/playa
This is interesting. Takes a lot of water and wind to move the rocks.

 

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