Best T:W Ratio Chart ?

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Rustie0125

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Hey All,

This must have been asked a million times before but Im still struggling to find a single source of all Motors A to G for LPR and MPR that listed the performance of each motor. The estes chart does great job but ends at D for some reason. Where can I find a list that covers all the motors and there specs ?

At this stage I keep resorting to Open rocket which is not ideal when trying to look something up quickly
 
Not sure what you are looking for, but https://www.thrustcurve.org/ motor search works well. Just put the impulse class in and search. You get the Impulse, average and max thrust, and burn time, along with other non-performance data. You can copy and paste that data into an excel spreadsheet.
You have to do each motor class on it's own. There are 69 G motors and 48 F motors listed.
 
Not sure what you are looking for, but https://www.thrustcurve.org/ motor search works well. Just put the impulse class in and search. You get the Impulse, average and max thrust, and burn time, along with other non-performance data. You can copy and paste that data into an excel spreadsheet.
You have to do each motor class on it's own. There are 69 G motors and 48 F motors listed.
Thanx, yes i have been playing with this but its not what im looking for. Simply looking for chart or spreadsheet with all motor sizes and states listed so you dont need any input fields populated.
 
Simply looking for chart or spreadsheet with all motor sizes and states listed so you dont need any input fields populated.


Short of creating one yourself, @jmasterj’s suggestion is likely the best way to get info spanning different manufacturers into one spreadsheet.

I copied Aerotech’s Master Motor Matrix into an excel sheet, and then manually added the relevant info from the other vendors that I was interested in.
 
So following suggestions and adding the information im looking for into the sheet the calculation used to determine max lift off wieght ? if Max thrust is listed as 10N then that's 1Kg and Thurst to weight ratio of 1:5 so thats 200g of recommended takeoff weight including motor weight ? i see the estes motor is more along the lines of 1: 8.5 Ratio. Again this just quick ref, I know the drag and stability has todo with airframe.
 
This is a sticky area, and a quick search says it has been discussed here a lot.


I am leery of posting anything without some cautions. You may know some or all of this, but I have know way of knowing that and don't want a chart I made to lead anyone down the garden path.

The first milliseconds of a model rocket engine are very dynamic, and exact analysis is sticky. The community uses a number of rules of thumb to simplify things. The 5:1/3:1 rule is basic. Go below 5:1 at your own peril, remember the rocket does not move until the thrust equals its weight - acceleration at 3:1 is HALF 5:1, not almost two thirds.

If I understand the definitive rules, they set an absolute requirement of a 3:1 ratio of weight on the pad to the certification average thrust. This is the law, but may or may not be enough, depending on the thrust curve. It may be marginal for motors that build thrust slowly (and more than enough for those designed with a high initial thrust spike that lasts long enough to get the bird off the rail). A 5:1 ratio to certified average thrust is probably a good place to start (until you have a reliable, detailed simulation).

Don't bet your life on maximum or initial thrust without supporting analysis. Maximum thrust is published for most motors. ThrustCurve speaks of "Initial Thrust", arbitrarily defined as the average over the first half second. In real life, what matters is the thrust curve (and integrated acceleration) from first motion to the top guide/button/lug reaching the top of the rail. At constant 4g acceleration (5:1 ratio) that ranges from 0.15 seconds to 0.4 seconds from first motion. Also bear in mind where your guides are - you get no credit for rail below the top guide. If your guides drag or catch on the rail, all bets are off.

The rule of thumb goal is 50 feet/second, or greater than four times the wind speed. This is the where the physics actually meets the road and the rocket should be aerodynamically stable, but you can only know you meet it through detailed calculation. And at constant 4g acceleration, that takes about ten feet of travel . . . . If you meet all the rules of thumb and charts but your rocket is in fact at only 25fps as it leaves the rail, it may or may not fly straight, and you will not have the opportunity to debate the issue with Mother Nature.

Bottom line is, use the charts, and rules of thumb, with discretion. Even the engines approved by the kit manufacturer are not not necessarily safe if you built, finished, or equipped you rocket in a way outside the assumptions built in to the recommendations. If you are anything less than 6-8:1 and your rocket has anything to it tougher than paper and balsa or substantial mass, you would be well to run a verified and validated simulation for your rocket and motor, ensuring the curve in the sim file matches the actual curve from the manufacturer (or cert authority) for your motor.

That said, here are two charts for smaller rockets (that absolutely do not supersede any published RSO chart, from any agency – and, if I slipped a cog on them, please let me know so I can take them down). OK to use these for a rough ballpark idea of motor choices NOT for the definitive safety check of any rocket.
 

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This is a sticky area, and a quick search says it has been discussed here a lot.


I am leery of posting anything without some cautions. You may know some or all of this, but I have know way of knowing that and don't want a chart I made to lead anyone down the garden path.

The first milliseconds of a model rocket engine are very dynamic, and exact analysis is sticky. The community uses a number of rules of thumb to simplify things. The 5:1/3:1 rule is basic. Go below 5:1 at your own peril, remember the rocket does not move until the thrust equals its weight - acceleration at 3:1 is HALF 5:1, not almost two thirds.

If I understand the definitive rules, they set an absolute requirement of a 3:1 ratio of weight on the pad to the certification average thrust. This is the law, but may or may not be enough, depending on the thrust curve. It may be marginal for motors that build thrust slowly (and more than enough for those designed with a high initial thrust spike that lasts long enough to get the bird off the rail). A 5:1 ratio to certified average thrust is probably a good place to start (until you have a reliable, detailed simulation).

Don't bet your life on maximum or initial thrust without supporting analysis. Maximum thrust is published for most motors. ThrustCurve speaks of "Initial Thrust", arbitrarily defined as the average over the first half second. In real life, what matters is the thrust curve (and integrated acceleration) from first motion to the top guide/button/lug reaching the top of the rail. At constant 4g acceleration (5:1 ratio) that ranges from 0.15 seconds to 0.4 seconds from first motion. Also bear in mind where your guides are - you get no credit for rail below the top guide. If your guides drag or catch on the rail, all bets are off.

The rule of thumb goal is 50 feet/second, or greater than four times the wind speed. This is the where the physics actually meets the road and the rocket should be aerodynamically stable, but you can only know you meet it through detailed calculation. And at constant 4g acceleration, that takes about ten feet of travel . . . . If you meet all the rules of thumb and charts but your rocket is in fact at only 25fps as it leaves the rail, it may or may not fly straight, and you will not have the opportunity to debate the issue with Mother Nature.

Bottom line is, use the charts, and rules of thumb, with discretion. Even the engines approved by the kit manufacturer are not not necessarily safe if you built, finished, or equipped you rocket in a way outside the assumptions built in to the recommendations. If you are anything less than 6-8:1 and your rocket has anything to it tougher than paper and balsa or substantial mass, you would be well to run a verified and validated simulation for your rocket and motor, ensuring the curve in the sim file matches the actual curve from the manufacturer (or cert authority) for your motor.

That said, here are two charts for smaller rockets (that absolutely do not supersede any published RSO chart, from any agency – and, if I slipped a cog on them, please let me know so I can take them down). OK to use these for a rough ballpark idea of motor choices NOT for the definitive safety check of any rocket.
Awesome ! Just Awesome. Thank you.
 
Again with the cautions! I've drawn from a variety of online sources, and all of them have at least a few issues. Info in certification records does not always match manufacturer data, and data in Thrust Curve is provided by users - it is very good but not perfect. Use this spreadsheet as a general guide only! Refer to certification documents and manufacturer's data when selecting a motor for launch. For anything other than a Hobby Rocket, don't rely on the 5:1 thumb rule for launch weight (3:1 is a hard limit, but may not be safe, particularly in high winds). You should be certified before launching more than 1,500 grams.

I have not listed maximum or initial thrust - these numbers cannot be relied on for performance. Maximum thrust can tell you something about peak stresses on your rocket, but anything having anything to do with capability requires detailed analysis or modeling of the actual thrust curve, rocket, and rail.

That said, here is a spreadsheet. You can filter or sort any category by clicking the down-arrow in the column label.
 

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