Any AstroCam Launchers Here?

[smstachwick]

Where rocket owners can't launch their own rockets? No thanks. But the topic here is the Estes AstroCam. I love mine. How is yours doing?

The only reason I pursued that line of disucssion is that I can't help but feel like there's been some sort of misunderstanding, like one or more of the thread participants is lacking some critical information or context.

I can't speak for any others here, but I'm proud of what we do at DART and I've had nothing but good experiences with the guys at TRASD and ROC. We fly together and I think the hobby is better for it. We learn from one another and become better rocketeers. What I'm inferring, and you can correct me if this was not what you were intending to imply, is that a small number of experiences or even just some hearsay you've collected has cast organized rocketry groups in an unflattering light for you. Given the huge number of NAR sections, Tripoli prefectures, and independent clubs that are out there, their vastly different operating procedures and circumstances, and the sheer number of personalities you can run into on the range, I simply don't think that's fair.

The decision of an RSO on any range is going to be binding. Yes, there are some people who are fundamentally unsuited to the job. It requires some people skills to get people onboard with their direction, and there are always going to be a small but non-zero number of individuals who will become abrasive in the position, or just plain abuse the authority. I have yet to encounter one, yet my intuition tells me that it may happen eventually, and making sweeping generalizations across entire national organizations like NAR or Tripoli is not something I'd even consider.

Even if you decide not to fly with a local organization, I'd still encourage you to rethink your reasoning behind it. Or at least just the way you present it. I don't think it's productive and it's not going to win you a ton of support on the forum. I think @CalebJ is onto something.

I've done this, rethinking my attitudes towards a few individual clubs. Flying with the Friends of Amateur Rocketry (FAR) up in California City was something I was previously nervous about, but when I learned more about their operating procedures and the kinds of people who fly there, I realized I was wrong about a lot of things. Experimental motors still make me nervous but if I ever want to fly something on commercial motors from smaller manufacturers that don't go for California State Fire Marshal approval (Apogee and Loki, for example), I know they're the guys who can make that happen.

For the record, I'm fully supportive of individual flying sessions. I've done this many times, most recently in November when I received a permit to fly at a local park about 30 minutes north of my house. I much prefer flying with DART but I can see the appeal. Many clubs have an off-season during times when it would still be good to fly. DART and TRASD close up shop during the summer, so I've often found myself kicking around the idea of getting my own permit with the city government to fly independently during this time. I still miss seeing the faces at the DART range, though.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

The only reason I pursued that line of disucssion is that I can't help but feel like there's been some sort of misunderstanding, like one or more of the thread participants is lacking some critical information or context.

I can't speak for any others here, but I'm proud of what we do at DART and I've had nothing but good experiences with the guys at TRASD and ROC. We fly together and I think the hobby is better for it. We learn from one another and become better rocketeers. What I'm inferring, and you can correct me if this was not what you were intending to imply, is that a small number of experiences or even just some hearsay you've collected has cast organized rocketry groups in an unflattering light for you. Given the huge number of NAR sections, Tripoli prefectures, and independent clubs that are out there, their vastly different operating procedures and circumstances, and the sheer number of personalities you can run into on the range, I simply don't think that's fair.

The decision of an RSO on any range is going to be binding. Yes, there are some people who are fundamentally unsuited to the job. It requires some people skills to get people onboard with their direction, and there are always going to be a small but non-zero number of individuals who will become abrasive in the position, or just plain abuse the authority. I have yet to encounter one, yet my intuition tells me that it may happen eventually, and making sweeping generalizations across entire national organizations like NAR or Tripoli is not something I'd even consider.

Even if you decide not to fly with a local organization, I'd still encourage you to rethink your reasoning behind it. Or at least just the way you present it. I don't think it's productive and it's not going to win you a ton of support on the forum. I think @CalebJ is onto something.

I've done this, rethinking my attitudes towards a few individual clubs. Flying with the Friends of Amateur Rocketry (FAR) up in California City was something I was previously nervous about, but when I learned more about their operating procedures and the kinds of people who fly there, I realized I was wrong about a lot of things. Experimental motors still make me nervous but if I ever want to fly something on commercial motors from smaller manufacturers that don't go for California State Fire Marshal approval (Apogee and Loki, for example), I know they're the guys who can make that happen.

For the record, I'm fully supportive of individual flying sessions. I've done this many times, most recently in November when I received a permit to fly at a local park about 30 minutes north of my house. I much prefer flying with DART but I can see the appeal. Many clubs have an off-season during times when it would still be good to fly. DART and TRASD close up shop during the summer, so I've often found myself kicking around the idea of getting my own permit with the city government to fly independently during this time. I still miss seeing the faces at the DART range, though.

I believe there are other areas of the forum devoted to getting deep into the weeds on club talk.

How are you enjoying your AstroCam?

 

[gtg738w]

I hate to be a nudge here, but I bought the rocket so I could launch it, so my son could launch it. Not for a range officer, a complete stranger, to launch it for me.

Just underscoring the amount of control and power these clubs seem to wield.

Where rocket owners can't launch their own rockets? No thanks.

People are trying to help you. Did you actually visit your local club and ask if you could push the button for your launch? Did they send you home?

For the record, since other people will see this, everything you've posted about club flying is just not true. You want to fly your rocket? Great! You wan't to fly everyone's rocket? Even better! We'll give you a microphone and a chair and you can push that button all day!

Hopefully you'll continue building rockets and branch out a bit but make sure if you're going to post something as fact, you actually know it's true.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

People are trying to help you. Did you actually visit your local club and ask if you could push the button for your launch? Did they send you home?

For the record, since other people will see this, everything you've posted about club flying is just not true. You want to fly your rocket? Great! You wan't to fly everyone's rocket? Even better! We'll give you a microphone and a chair and you can push that button all day!

Hopefully you'll continue building rockets and branch out a bit but make sure if you're going to post something as fact, you actually know it's true.

View attachment 498519

Look forward to hearing your experience with the AstroCam. How do you enjoy it? I have been flying for about a week, and plan on "branching out" when I am good and ready, Until then? Look forward to your thoughts on the Estes AstroCam.

 

[gtg738w]

Look forward to hearing your experience with the AstroCam. How do you enjoy it? I have been flying for about a week, and plan on "branching out" when I am good and ready, Until then? Look forward to your thoughts on the Estes AstroCam.

Well, I left mine hanging behind my elementary school 30 years ago before I could even develop the film, but I finally got a replacement thanks to @Launch Lab Rocketry! Unfortunately it's still in the box though, I spend too much time pushing buttons at club launches .

 

[Sandy H.]

Astrocam was not something I could afford when I was young.

I bought an Oracle when I first BAR'd. I've flown 808 keychain cams a bunch.

Every time I've been to a club launch where a child wanted to push the button themselves instead of the LCO, the LCO supervised the child pushing the button. I assume that would translate to adults as well, but most often the adults want to either video, photograph or watch and the LCO is actually doing them a favor.

I consider the above 3 paragraphs as fact based on my own experience. They may not translate to your experience.

I'm not a fan of the only-club/anti-club discussions. Clubs work for some and not others. Certain clubs might be a bad fit for a flier, but other clubs could be their perfect enabler. Personal experience is what counts, but counting all clubs as bad or all individual fliers as bad is pretty parallel to racism/sexism/etc.

Either way, rockets are cool. Photos from rockets are cool. Videos from rockets are cool. Videos of people taking photos of rockets that are taking photos or videos are also cool. Personally, I draw the line at photos of people taking videos of people taking photos of rockets that are taking photos or videos of rockets, but I feel that is my choice and I would likely not attend an event where that was the focus, club or private.

Sandy.

 

[samb]

Astrocam was not something I could afford when I was young.

I bought an Oracle when I first BAR'd. I've flown 808 keychain cams a bunch.

Every time I've been to a club launch where a child wanted to push the button themselves instead of the LCO, the LCO supervised the child pushing the button. I assume that would translate to adults as well, but most often the adults want to either video, photograph or watch and the LCO is actually doing them a favor.

I consider the above 3 paragraphs as fact based on my own experience. They may not translate to your experience.

I'm not a fan of the only-club/anti-club discussions. Clubs work for some and not others. Certain clubs might be a bad fit for a flier, but other clubs could be their perfect enabler. Personal experience is what counts, but counting all clubs as bad or all individual fliers as bad is pretty parallel to racism/sexism/etc.

Either way, rockets are cool. Photos from rockets are cool. Videos from rockets are cool. Videos of people taking photos of rockets that are taking photos or videos are also cool. Personally, I draw the line at photos of people taking videos of people taking photos of rockets that are taking photos or videos of rockets, but I feel that is my choice and I would likely not attend an event where that was the focus, club or private.

Sandy.

Well said.
Aerial photograph/videography is cool.
I think you're cool too, Sandy.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

I do with the blue LED indicators could be modified or swapped out for something easier to read while out at a launch site. Or, if an audio indicator could be somehow added. I have been in touch with Estes, and they are aware of the issue, and acknowledge it, even though it sound as though there is little that can be done.

 

[jrap330]

Since this is about Astrocams... Here is a video using a 3D printed nose to hold the camera oriented horizontally rather than vertically as in the stock kit. This rocket is BT-55 (I wanted it heavier and bigger for a reason) Motor is a C11-5. Just a basic flight nothing special, but it shows an odd flaw in the camera. It skipped frames a couple times.

I will say the flight is a good "ad" for the C-11 engine. Have to fly one.

 

[Grant_Edwards]

I do with the blue LED indicators could be modified or swapped out for something easier to read while out at a launch site.

It's pretty simple to fix, just drill/cut a small notch through the case so you can see the LED:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/estes-astrocam-drill-hole-to-see-led.168681/

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

It's pretty simple to fix, just drill/cut a small notch through the case so you can see the LED:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/estes-astrocam-drill-hole-to-see-led.168681/

Never said it was difficult, just not elegant. Hoping Estes comes out with something.

 

[Grant_Edwards]

Never said it was difficult, just not elegant. Hoping Estes comes out with something.

You said you wished it could be modified, from which I inferred that you weren't aware of how to modify it.

After I modified mine I contacted Estes suggesting a similar ECO. They were already aware of the problem and had a fix planned. However, the camera is undoubtedly manufactured in China with a batch size large enough to cover a year or two of Estes's sales and (based on the moaning where I work¹) a 6-12 month lead time on critical components — so who knows when the next version will start shipping.

¹ Thank dog I'm not directly involved in production.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

You said you wished it could be modified, from which I inferred that you weren't aware of how to modify it.

After I modified mine I contacted Estes suggesting a similar ECO. They were already aware of the problem and had a fix planned. However, the camera is undoubtedly manufactured in China with a batch size large enough to cover a year or two of Estes's sales and (based on the moaning where I work¹) a 6-12 month lead time on critical components — so who knows when the next version will start shipping.

¹ Thank dog I'm not directly involved in production.

I hear you. China manufacturing, and supply chain issues, are going to plague the hobby for quite some time.

The camera performance is adequate. The corner dark vignetting is really bad. Especially noticeable when you shoot video on an overcast or foggy day.

But that LED. Too small, not bright enough. An Estes improvement waiting to happen.

 

[Warren Baker]

I’m not going to make snap judgements about the OP, even though I was wondering if this was indeed the case. I just don’t know enough to judge.

DART and many other sections fly low-and mid-power exclusively, and a bulk of our flyers show up with stock Estes kits or RTF rockets. I have never heard of anyone having an issue with these kinds of people out on the flying field.

The Internet is a different matter, but I’d think it’s more common to dump on kids and new BARs on a semi-anonymous global forum like this one than a local organization’s FaceBook page.

I can, however, see a first-timer or rocketeer returning after a long absence getting in a huff about the safety rules and high level of organization on a club range. In that case, I think it’s a good thing those people fly alone. In many places, the atmosphere just isn’t as permissive or forgiving as it once was and the club has to protect itself and its attendees. It’s better to have an accident reflect poorly on a solo flyer and have a club suffer only collateral PR damage than for something terrible to happen at a club range and for the club to see its own name in the newspaper.

Well said.. I'm not a club member yet but probably will be soon. I only have one place to fly anything C or over even with JL chute release in the big ones. The club 50 miles from me has trees around but following someone else's lead will make me a little braver launching Fs and boosters. The farmer at the big field is OK with my friend using a strip for his plane and watched me launch a few smaller rockets but once the crops start I don't like walking on them and I'm trying to keep my granddaughter intrested and teach respect for other peoples property at the same time.

 

[smstachwick]

I believe there are other areas of the forum devoted to getting deep into the weeds on club talk.

How are you enjoying your AstroCam?

As I’m sure you’ve found out from other discussions, threads tend to drift in and out of topic. One good discussion deserves another. Sometimes the new subject is expansive enough that a separate thread can be desirable, but it is not always strictly necessary.

There is no explicit forum rule or longstanding moderation policy that threads must remain in line with the original posting or title. The only topic rules are that threads should be posted in the proper forum and that every user is to avoid “third rail” topics. A conversation participant rejecting a thread creator’s uninformed statements, even those on tangent discussion, is not generally considered an acceptable reason to demand a return to the original posted topic, especially when the participant appears to have a measure of community support.

Even if those circumstances were grounds for shutting down of a line of discussion, that would be for a forum mod to enforce and not the thread’s creator. Feel free to hit that report button, if you wish. I’m fully confident that they’d find me in line.

 

[smstachwick]

Regarding my fleet, I actually don’t own an Astrocam. It’s a bit out of my budget and the scope of my goals for now. It’s a cool rocket though, it’s definitely on the horizon for me. I’m glad you’re having fun with yours .

I’m thinking I’ll want a more capable camera though, it appears that the stock one generates some strange artifacts.

Currently my fleet consists of a Star Trooper, a Generic E2X, a Goblin, a Hi-Flier XL, and a Star Orbiter. The Star Trooper and Goblin have both been converted to fly two-stage. Right now my Star Orbiter is the only one to carry a payload: a Jolly Logic Altimeter Three on various E and F motors.

I’m also kicking around some concepts for a 38mm bird to fly on G-J or K motors. I’m thinking a WildMan Darkstar Jr or similar, that should be a fun camera carrier. More expensive than an Astrocam, sure, but think about the performance….

I will say the flight is a good "ad" for the C-11 engine. Have to fly one.

The C11 is a fun motor. A little bit of oomph to it but it won’t put a small airframe into the ionosphere like a D12 will.

 

[GlenP]

I don't have an AstroCam, yet, but I have always wanted one since the old 110 film camera edition, and will probably pick one of these new ones up one of these days. I did make a simple cardstock shroud for an 808 keychain camera and have flown that on a few rockets, here is the camera on an Estes Amazon. On smaller rockets it flies okay, but tends to spin way too much to get good quality video.





While not necessary to attend or join a local club to enjoy the hobby, as a card-carrying member of the National Association of Rocketry, you may benefit from liability insurance, just something to consider if you are launching beyond the boundaries of your own personal property. Local laws and regulations have a tendency to encroach on the rights of individuals to participate in the model rocketry hobby, and in joining the national organization we all can help each other in protecting these rights so that we all can continue to enjoy the safe conduct of our hobby, whether at a club or not. Equally it is not necessary to post on an internet forum to enjoy the hobby either, but adds to the fun and learning in sharing our experiences, right?

https://www.nar.org/join-nar/

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I hear you. China manufacturing, and supply chain issues, are going to plague the hobby for quite some time.

The camera performance is adequate. The corner dark vignetting is really bad. Especially noticeable when you shoot video on an overcast or foggy day.

But that LED. Too small, not bright enough. An Estes improvement waiting to happen.

I was bummed today because I tried ordering the AC cams from a sketchy website for $7 each and free shipping over $40. I got an initial confirmation email then nothing. I filed a claim and PayPal gave me my money back. Oh well. Worth a try...

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

I was bummed today because I tried ordering the AC cams from a sketchy website for $7 each and free shipping over $40. I got an initial confirmation email then nothing. I filed a claim and PayPal gave me my money back. Oh well. Worth a try...

The AstroCam camera does get a bad rap. Manly, I think, from some who expect it to have GoPro quality. It does not. But it is a very compact, versatile form factor that meets a modest price point. Is it perfect? No. Is it serviceable and useful? Yes.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

The AstroCam camera does get a bad rap. Manly, I think, from some who expect it to have GoPro quality. It does not. But it is a very compact, versatile form factor that meets a modest price point. Is it perfect? No. Is it serviceable and useful? Yes.

It is your namesake after all.

 

[dpower]

I've enjoyed flying the new AstroCam - enough so that I picked up 2 of the camera-only units to put on other rockets. It's ease-of-use is perfect for me, I don't really want to design in camera capability, but I don't mind strapping one on and pushing the button!

 

[GlenP]

I have thought it would be neat to put a camera on a rocket boosted glider, or design a glider specifically to carry a camera with either a pilots eye view or a downward facing land scanning view. Or like on the nose of a X-24 Bug?

 

[BEC]

I have thought it would be neat to put a camera on a rocket boosted glider, or design a glider specifically to carry a camera with either a pilots eye view or a downward facing land scanning view. Or like on the nose of a X-24 Bug?

Glen, I seem to recall that in one of Frank Burke’s many threads he recently mentioned starting to fly one of these on one of his RC gliders.

I haven’t done aerial photography from a fixed-wing airplane in some years, but mounting a keyfob-type camera on the wing of a small model just far enough outboard that the prop tip was in the frame (with all that rolling shutter stuff) was quite a bit of fun.

As far as the whole club/no club thing goes….I do both. I am the president/button pusher for one local club (which currently has a launch site that can only support up to D impulse), I fly with several others, and go flying on my own as well. I put up four flights, including one with an AstroCam, from the beach at Ocean Shores, Washington last week.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

from the beach at Ocean Shores, Washington last week.

When will the video be posted? Used to camp there every summer...

https://www.youtube.com/user/RecordersRocketsBEC

 

[BEC]

Well, if I just clip it down to the actual flight — there was no FS Mini aboard, so no data to feed through RaceRender — I suppose I can do it pretty shortly.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Where exactly are they launched? I believe the shores are considered State parks. Just curious...

 

[BEC]

Where exactly are they launched? I believe the shores are considered State parks. Just curious...

Here is the video: https://youtu.be/YolpoUOantc

According to this: http://traveloceanshores.com/things-to-do/beach-access/ the beach is considered a state highway with a speed limit of 25. There were signs where you can access the beach with a vehicle saying that the beach was closed to vehicles from mid April through Labor Day.

We were launching, that day, from a little south of the Chance a la Mer access — perhaps 300-500 feet south of there.

I also flew one Alpha III flight a couple of days later just off the jetty at the south end. That one landed in about 1/4 inch of water and it was a scramble to grab it before the ocean did. Fortunately the FS Mini aboard that flight didn't get wet...it stayed up in the nose cone as it should. https://flightsketch.com/flights/3288/

This is the third year I've flown that Alpha III off that beach in January, and the second with the AstroCam. I'll have to see about putting last year's flight video up.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Nice. Looks like a typical winter day in the PNW. We learned to bring boards with us to the beach to help dig cars out of the sand.

@BABAR lives nearby now.



Here's what our winters look like. Forget about trying to drive to Northshore when the surf's up.

 

[Back_at_it]

Finally got to fly my AstroCam yesterday. The first one I bought didn't work. It wouldn't charge or turn on but Estes replaced it no questions asked. After that I kind of forgot I had it until this weekend.

Used it on the AstroCam rocket and taped it to the side of a Big Bertha. While the video isn't great, it's not bad for a cheap camera. I'll continue using it.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Finally got to fly my AstroCam yesterday. The first one I bought didn't work. It wouldn't charge or turn on but Estes replaced it no questions asked. After that I kind of forgot I had it until this weekend.

Used it on the AstroCam rocket and taped it to the side of a Big Bertha. While the video isn't great, it's not bad for a cheap camera. I'll continue using it.

View attachment 523495View attachment 523497View attachment 523498View attachment 523499

Did the BB video work? It should be horizontal. After a while, I find it more interesting with unique rockets like the Expedition. Of course, this also means I’m more likely to lose the cam to the gym or canal if it arcs over.