JimJarvis50
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2009
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Yes, there is video somewhere.
Hey Chuck, nice to see you again at LDRS. If you're out in Nevada next September, you should drop by Balls!
Jim
Yes, there is video somewhere.
Thanks for the background. Given that number of involved parties and level of infrastructure / organisation, it sounds like you'll definitely have enough people to keep the project going. Good luck!
Moral of the story?
Big projects are *hard*. There's a tremendous amount of planning that's required for them to be successful, and building the rocket is, to be honest, one of the easier parts.
-Kevin
Moral of the story?
Big projects are *hard*. There's a tremendous amount of planning that's required for them to be successful, and building the rocket is, to be honest, one of the easier parts.
-Kevin
Your paperwork is DONE?
Really -- why not post the required sims then???
+1 million Kevin
Moral of the story?
Big projects are *hard*. There's a tremendous amount of planning that's required for them to be successful, and building the rocket is, to be honest, one of the easier parts.
-Kevin
Chuck -- a C is a "passing grade."
Not quite the back story I heard - that said you didn't pass.
Plus you clearly didn't file in time.
Remember the C-3 community isn't that large.
So just pushing the buttons on somebody's who, shall I say, has been a little less than 100% honest in this long post and lead several people down a garden path...…
Enough of the BS.....go hunt gold and have fun!
Hope somebody picks up your stuff and puts it to good use.
It would be nice to see the rocket fly.
Best of luck.
what you’re doing now comes off as petty and mean.
Again most everyone here has been wonderful. What a great group of guys! Trust me I don’t like halting something so close. But who knows what the future holds.
Chuck C.
I won’t just dismiss you as a hater but bring attention to it. In the end this is and was chucks project. He is putting it aside for now so his finances can be focused somewhere else. He is attempting fiscal responsible. Unless you’re financing the project your opinion doesn’t matter. There is no need to be so butt hurtI found this project thread interesting and it was an opportunity to think about some fun problems for a while, however its ultimate failure as a project is both a disappointment because of all the effort expended by many people in good faith coming to naught, and I would claim a demonstration of what can happen when one over reaches, whether it is an L3 'kit rocket' or an R 'kit rocket'.
Fred's criticisms may be heard as aggressive, yet there are legitimate criticisms of how this project was carried out that there seems to be a knee jerk reaction against. There is a reason [probably several] why all the material products of this effort are for sale rather than getting flown. I observe that many are inclined to put a positive spin on those reasons. That is fine I suppose, but I prefer to be objective where I can. Sure we can all 'focus on the positive', but then it depends on what one's objectives are. Mine are not for a 'participation trophy', others are welcome to their own.
From my perspective, ultimately we saw the creation of an R 'kit rocket'. Someone else designed and provided the motor case. Someone else designed and essentially provided the motor reload. Someone else designed the basic rocket. The 'committee' spent a great effort of sorting out detail decisions. I believe Chuck did a good job building the airframe, except that as far as I understand, the result was nearly too heavy to fly [yet a solvable problem].
A risk of building a kit rocket is that the builder may not have enough experience to know that when making changes, what things are important and what level of importance those things have. Also if they didn't design it, they don't necessarily understand it. If they have not 'worked up to it', they may lack the experience to understand the pitfalls when scaling up. Design by consensus is not a solution in itself, the flyer ultimately is the one responsible to know and understand the design. Then again, they may do fine and have a good comprehension of what matters and of what they are doing, producing a rocket that is expected to fly well and recover safely.
I would put forth that anyone who can pass an L3 cert flight should be able to fill out C3RC paperwork without difficulty. If this was some M powered >50k effort from someone who had done their L1,L2 & L3 certs all within a month and then put together an inadequate C3RC package, what would the view of that person's preparedness for extreme high power research flights be? Probably that they would benefit from some more flight experience/mentoring before taking on an extreme project.
This is not an M powered project, it is an R powered project with potential energy in the same class as tactical missiles. What level of competence and preparedness is appropriate for a project with that level of hazard? How much confidence should one have in a flyer who is learning basic stuff in the course of building a rocket powered by one of the largest motors flown?
Neither Fred nor I can point to a 100% successful R flight, but I will take credit for my motor not coming apart and for the airframe flying well at speeds over mach 3.6. It was not from my following someone else's formula or from someone else's instructions. If I had followed a formula and followed someone's already developed process, it would ultimately be just a 'kit motor', and would not prepare me for anything beyond the physical labor of casting propellant. The airframe would be a 'hope for the best' design because I would not be able to explain its design margins. I don't believe that 'hope for the best' is an appropriate design approach for projects of this size. Really big projects should be fun, they should also be taken seriously.
Folks should be proud of the effort they put into this. They should be proud of their willingness to support a grand project. I think they are poorly served by the project's abandonment for something 'more interesting'. Chuck had the opportunity to work through all of these criticisms and make the project successful. Go ahead and dismiss me as a 'hater'. I will bear no ill will, and I have plenty of stuff to be building.
br/
Tony
If I let people down that wasn’t my intent. For the first time a big project was done online for all to see. I’m very proud of all of you.
Thanks for understanding. It’s not a decision taken lightly.
Chuck C.
You did a really good job Dave.
There was a lot of information flowing on this thread in no small part because of your efforts.
It really won’t be that hard to figure out a motor down the road. I’ve got the casings up for sale but won’t be disappointed if they remain in the rocket barn.
Again nicely done. It was a fun year.
Chuck C.
I mean, I'm still trying to figure out how to afford to drive almost 150 miles to get to my first TRA event without spending $500.00 on the trip alone just to launch my first rocket..Still trying to figure out how I'm gonna pay for the $200.00 +/- for the load/casing/etc for the launch to attempt my L1...
S.S.
Personally, I'm just glad this is over. No matter the reason.
Probably a good time to close this thread. the project is over and what was a contentious relationship between those who supported it and those who did not; those who agreed with the build strategy and those who did not, those who felt obligated to see test data and those who did not.
With the project being over it is only going to get worse, and for no real reason.
This is over, let it rest in peace
S.S.
Welcome to high-power rocketry ! ( we're about the same age, I'm 58 )
Where are you located ?
I'm going to address your L1 issues, one by one.
(1) Travel - 150 miles is a "day trip", provided that you are "mission-oriented" . . . Cheap gas, fast food, no hotel ( drive back home the same day ).
(2) Load / Casing expenses - You will have to buy a reload . . . However, in most cases, someone at the launch will let you borrow a case, especially for Certification. ( Contact them, in advance ).
Assuming your car gets 25 mpg, you are looking at 12 gallons +/- of fuel and what ever your local price is. At $2.50/ga;. . . . $30.00
(3) Food - Three "gourmet meals" at McDonald's . . . $20.00 +/-
(4) Reload - If you fly an Aerotech motor, an "H" reload runs about $30.00 - $50.00, depending on who you get it from and whether it's a 29mm or 38mm reload.
An "I" motor will raise the cost to about $40.00 - $65.00, depending on Total Impulse. Cesaroni reloads should be close to the same cost.
(5) Launch Fee - Your "flying fee" at the flying field is about $10.00.
So, a "minimalist" approach would cost you $90.00 - $125.00, given the above parameters.
Dave F.
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