An "R"-powered rocket build

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by Rail Dawg, Nov 30, 2018.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dec 23, 2019 #2,521

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    Obsessed with Rocketry Staff Member Administrator TRF Lifetime Supporter Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    23,426
    Likes Received:
    2,212
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Glennville, GA
    Reopened at poster request but keep it civil and within the rules.
     
    g.pitts and Andrew_ASC like this.
  2. Dec 23, 2019 #2,522

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    449
    Cool. Is it coming back? As in, gonna fly?
     
  3. Dec 23, 2019 #2,523

    timbucktoo

    timbucktoo

    timbucktoo

    Well-Known Member Staff Member Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    6,722
    Likes Received:
    735
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cocoa Beach
    That’s the claim. He took all remaining items for sale off the market and stated he has a new motor mentor.
     
    Andrew_ASC likes this.
  4. Dec 23, 2019 #2,524

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Always learning!!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    708
    Location:
    Houston TX and Lovelock NV
    Well yesterday was a good day.

    The reason I backed off the project was the R motor. Pat G smartly stepped back due to his plate (as always) being full and then some. I realized I don't have the years of practice needed to build and test successive motors on up to an R.

    Yesterday a couple of very experienced rocket motor guys came to the house. They are on the road right now and I don't have permission to give names. However after a lengthy discussion yesterday it became obvious that they are quite capable of producing the R motor needed for this rocket. One of them can't actually build due to other aerospace agreements but one of them if given time certainly has the skills to produce up to a mid R motor.

    The plan will be for me to transfer the 10' motor casings, liners and casting sleeves to this gentleman.

    BALLS 2020 is the immediate goal. The motor builder will provide full support meaning he shows up at BALLS with the R motor after full approval through the Tripoli C3RC review process. After the flight he takes the casing back for cleaning and prep for a future launch.

    A man must know his limitations and I know mine. I can build a great rocket especially with engineers (and many of you!) providing input and corrections. However I don't have the required knowledge of propellant formulation and actual mixing to do the motor on my own. I don't (yet) have the ability to converse with the C3RC team on motor formulations with enough knowledge to get the proper approvals. The C3RC takes this stuff very serious as they should.

    However with an expert motor builder I know we can get through the C3RC process correctly. The rocket is solid and I'm looking forward to getting it through the C3RC.

    The only things I sold that need to be replaced are the electronics and the recovery harness. Easy to do in the months ahead.

    If this rocket and motor flies successfully we will then look at a 16" G-12 airframed rocket with an S motor.

    I've learned a great deal in the past year and will continue to do so.

    This is an AWESOME thread and for the first time a very big rocket was built from scratch using inputs of dozens of you. Trust me there are many old-timers out there who haven't approved of my approach. I respect their discontent however I also know a team approach produces superior results 100% of the time. There's a reason the airlines, shipping, railroads, hospitals and many other fields are utilizing a team approach to the decision-making process. As an airline Captain trust me the past three decades have drastically changed how I arrive at the smartest decisions especially when hundreds of lives are in the balance.

    So we move forward with strength! As always I'm open to ideas and corrections. I don't know it all. But there is a 22' foot rocket sitting on a world-class launch trailer built by THE Levi Seaton that is aching to stretch it's legs. It's exciting to know a new path has opened for this to happen.

    Merry Christmas everyone!

    Chuck C.
     
  5. Dec 23, 2019 #2,525

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    449
    Cool, love to see it actually happen. Can you give us any info on the motor itself? Understand if that's gotta be held tight for now..
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
    Rail Dawg likes this.
  6. Dec 23, 2019 #2,526

    Theory

    Theory

    Theory

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2018
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    292
    Gender:
    Male
    happy to hear that she might fly
     
    Andrew_ASC likes this.
  7. Dec 23, 2019 #2,527

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    449
    What are your plans for electronics?
     
    Andrew_ASC likes this.
  8. Dec 23, 2019 #2,528

    JimJarvis50

    JimJarvis50

    JimJarvis50

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes Received:
    485
    Hopefully, the "new rocket motor guys" will see an uptick in their luck as well. Looking forward to seeing this fly.

    Jim
     
    Andrew_ASC likes this.
  9. Dec 23, 2019 #2,529

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Always learning!!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    708
    Location:
    Houston TX and Lovelock NV
    Yes it's not going to be a "showy" motor. It's going to be designed using modern methods for producing the most power. Using these methods a 10' casing should be able to produce upwards of a mid-R.

    Chuck C.
     
    Wallace, tomsteve and Andrew_ASC like this.
  10. Dec 23, 2019 #2,530

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Always learning!!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    708
    Location:
    Houston TX and Lovelock NV
    Marsa33 LHD for altimeter
    PerfectFlite as backup altimeter. StratoLoggerCF.
    BigRedBee for tracking.

    Chuck C.
     
    Andrew_ASC likes this.
  11. Dec 23, 2019 #2,531

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    Hunkered down TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Happy to see this project revived! That rocket is sort of a BAR unto itself now. :)
     
    Rail Dawg likes this.
  12. Dec 23, 2019 #2,532

    Andrew_ASC

    Andrew_ASC

    Andrew_ASC

    UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,841
    Likes Received:
    499
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes it’s gonna soar....
     
  13. Dec 23, 2019 #2,533

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Chuck,

    Never fear . . . I intend to instantly report any "snarky" posts, immediately !

    Dave F.

    Chuck,

    What a great "Christmas Present" . . . I am eagerly anticipating the successful completion of this project !

    Merry Christmas, Sir !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg

    Chuck,

    With all of that in mind, re-simming, after Motor Static Testing is highly-advised. With the substantial power increase, the fins should be re-evaluated to assess their flutter stability.

    Is there a "checklist" of items left to be completed and /or tested ( i,e, - Charge Cannons, Electronics testing, etc. ) ?

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg

    Andrew,

    With the projected power increase, we will need to re-evaluate the Fins for Flutter Resistance . . . I may have a source for the type of analysis program you had previous access to, or similar.

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2019
    Andrew_ASC and Rail Dawg like this.
  14. Dec 23, 2019 #2,535

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    449
    Funny seeing the ' in lieu of the " when referecing motors.
     
    neil_w likes this.
  15. Dec 23, 2019 #2,535

    Andrew_ASC

    Andrew_ASC

    Andrew_ASC

    UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,841
    Likes Received:
    499
    Gender:
    Male
    If the rocket doesn’t exceed current flutter Mach after new motor data is collected I don’t see a need to sim it again. However if another flutter sim is needed I still have access to finsim v4.53.
     
  16. Dec 23, 2019 #2,536

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Hi, Andrew !

    Initially, we were anticipating a 6% "R" motor AND we never had an "All-Up" weight for the rocket. With the latest update, the end result could be a 50% + "R" motor. Depending on "Real World Testing", whenever that is performed, velocities could, likely, be considerably higher than previously anticipated.

    Merry Christmas !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  17. Dec 23, 2019 #2,537

    OverTheTop

    OverTheTop

    OverTheTop

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,235
    Likes Received:
    732
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Great to hear this is progressing after all the work expended so far. Good luck :).
     
    Paulb06 and Rail Dawg like this.
  18. Dec 23, 2019 #2,538

    DAllen

    DAllen

    DAllen

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    449
    This news brings a smile to my face.
     
    Paulb06 and Rail Dawg like this.
  19. Dec 23, 2019 #2,539

    Rob702Martinez

    Rob702Martinez

    Rob702Martinez

    Zip-Tie Oversight Committee TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Oh boy...here we go
     
    Ethan likes this.
  20. Dec 23, 2019 #2,540

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  21. Dec 25, 2019 #2,541

    Tyler P

    Tyler P

    Tyler P

    Nom-nom-nom... TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    192
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm so glad to see this project continuing! Bring it on!
     
    Paulb06 and Rail Dawg like this.
  22. Dec 25, 2019 #2,542

    ksaves2

    ksaves2

    ksaves2

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    127
    Sounds like you have some really qualified folks in your corner. Much smarter than me. My concern is aft case heating that could cause case failure around the nozzle due to heat transfer from the nozzle to the case.
    Also I understand that multiple firings and case heating can compromise strength. I witnessed a 6 inch O motor blow off the aft end of the case after 4 successful firings. Fifth firing and the case gave way above the nozzle before the rocket left the pad so there wasn’t an erratic or dangerous flight. Actually, went up the rail, got off the end, tipped over on the ground all the while the flaming grains were falling out slowly under the auspices of gravity. Consumed the aft end of the rocket and burned a tire off the launch trailer! Entertaining actually except for the builder. :confused:
    Since you mention you have the assistance of aerospace engineers that should cover your bases. All the best.
    Kurt Savegnago
     
    Rail Dawg likes this.
  23. Dec 26, 2019 #2,543

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Back on topic . . .

    Chuck,

    Whenever you get a chance, please update current status, including any outstanding items, tasks, or testing to be completed.

    Thank you & Happy New Year, sir !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
  24. Dec 26, 2019 #2,544

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    Obsessed with Rocketry Staff Member Administrator TRF Lifetime Supporter Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    23,426
    Likes Received:
    2,212
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Glennville, GA
    Please try to stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.
     
    Nytrunner and 0011001100 like this.
  25. Dec 26, 2019 #2,545

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Wallace

    Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    449
    Got it. Let's see this thing actually fly..
     
  26. Dec 26, 2019 #2,546

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Chuck,

    Thank you, sir . . . Happy New Year !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
  27. Dec 26, 2019 #2,547

    ksaves2

    ksaves2

    ksaves2

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    127
  28. Dec 26, 2019 #2,548

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Always learning!!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    708
    Location:
    Houston TX and Lovelock NV
    It’s actually kinda fun to think about The Black Rock.

    Such a great place to fly when conditions are perfect.

    Not having to invest a lot of time and energy into the motor building is awesome. Just concentrate on the rocket.

    Pretty cool.

    Chuck C.
     
  29. Dec 26, 2019 #2,549

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    696
    Chuck,

    Kind of like your first Estes rockets . . . NEVER forget them !

    Welcome back, Chuck !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
  30. Dec 28, 2019 #2,550

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

    Always learning!!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    708
    Location:
    Houston TX and Lovelock NV
    Ok we may not see the same intensity of building this rocket as we saw earlier but we're still going to enjoy some intensity.

    I also will be posting some questions inviting comment.

    Took the rocket apart this morning to begin work.

    The pics show first off the motor casing. It really is a beautiful piece of work.

    The next pics are how I want to attach the airframe to each end of the Avionics Bay. Decided to go with a bolt setup that allows you to epoxy the holding nut inside the Av Bay.

    I didn't space the stringers inside the Av Bay perfectly so I'm going to have to figure out how to space the 8 retaining bolts on each end so they don't hit one of the stringers. That will take some thinking lol.

    Chuck C.

    IMG_5478[1].JPG IMG_5483[1].JPG IMG_5484[1].JPG IMG_5485[1].JPG
     
    Joe Bruce and g.pitts like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Group Builder