AeroTech Open Thread

[JasonB]

Website does not have a link for the 650 and 685 face grain bonding instructions …

did not want to open the packages until im ready to build, but wanted to read up… thanks

 

[rocketcharlie]

Hello propulsion Forum,

I have several 38 mm AT DMS motors. Has anyone ever used an Aeropac MD retainer with one of these motors? I'm not seeing how it would be possible without the threaded forward closure available with reload cases.

Charlie

 

[jimzcatz]

You make a tape thrust ring. And I think you mean rear closure.

 

[markg]

I have several 38 mm AT DMS motors. Has anyone ever used an Aeropac MD retainer with one of these motors? I'm not seeing how it would be possible without the threaded forward closure available with reload cases.

Check this thread :

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...se-cone-and-4-fins.162266/page-2#post-2053896
cheers - mark

 

[AeroTech]

Website does not have a link for the 650 and 685 face grain bonding instructions …

did not want to open the packages until im ready to build, but wanted to read up… thanks

I’ll check on it tomorrow.

 

[BEC]

I received two 25-motor bulk boxes of C12-6FJs today and was pleased to see not only were the initiators packaged very nicely, protecting them from damage in shipping, there are also now four spares included in the package. Nice.

 

[jmasterj]

I received two 25-motor bulk boxes of C12-6FJs today and was pleased to see not only were the initiators packaged very nicely, protecting them from damage in shipping, there are also now four spares included in the package. Nice.

View attachment 514888View attachment 514889

Did your package have q-piks?

 

[Bill S]

Lets hope the new Q-Jets aren't prone to CATOs. I also received some of the newish C12-6s before they reformulated the clay nozzles, and the igniters were very well packed. I told them that I liked it.

 

[BEC]

Did your package have q-piks?

No. You can see the heat shrink tubes in the initiator box picture (right side).

To be fair, the production dates for the two boxes are March and July of last year. This is before Gary told us about Q-piks.

Lets hope the new Q-Jets aren't prone to CATOs. I also received some of the newish C12-6s before they reformulated the clay nozzles, and the igniters were very well packed. I told them that I liked it.

I've flown probably a couple hundred Q-Jets including some betas of the 18mm White Lightning motors. I have never had a nozzle-related failure, though I have seen the pictures of some others have had on here.

 

[joe7]

Interested in an L1000, still wishing there was a reliable way to get the dimensions.. apogee lists the "length" as 635mm but there are more than a few ways to measure "length". Additionally I have heard that (some?) of the copies of this motor have the thrust ring further forward than the typical aft edge of the casing.

Oh, my kingdom for reliable and accessible diagrams.

 

[crossfire]

Interested in an L1000, still wishing there was a reliable way to get the dimensions.. apogee lists the "length" as 635mm but there are more than a few ways to measure "length". Additionally I have heard that (some?) of the copies of this motor have the thrust ring further forward than the typical aft edge of the casing.

Oh, my kingdom for reliable and accessible diagrams.

I have never seen the thrust ring on the L1000 mover forward from edge of motor.

 

[joe7]

I have never seen the thrust ring on the L1000 mover forward from edge of motor.

Oh good news! Any chance you could confirm if 635mm includes the thrust ring or not? Or how far the front "closure" protrudes but I think the 3/8" estimate is fairly reliable on that one

 

[joe7]

(totally assuming 635mm does NOT include the front end but suppose i do not know that for certain)

 

[crossfire]

(totally assuming 635mm does NOT include the front end but suppose i do not know that for certain)

Total lenght of case is 25 "
Total lenght of motor from end of nozzle to end of charge well is 26.5"

 

[Neutronium95]

Interested in an L1000, still wishing there was a reliable way to get the dimensions.. apogee lists the "length" as 635mm but there are more than a few ways to measure "length". Additionally I have heard that (some?) of the copies of this motor have the thrust ring further forward than the typical aft edge of the casing.

Oh, my kingdom for reliable and accessible diagrams.

You'll have to count pixels, but you should be able to get all of the dimensions you need from the L1000 assembly drawing on RCS.

 

[joe7]

Big, big help - thanks crossfire and neutron!

 

[StreuB1]

Question regarding ignitors.

I am planning on flying my first 2-stage this weekend and I am beginning to assemble some motors and I have hit a potential snag.

My first flight will be low and the sustainer I was planning on using an F40W in my 29/40-120 case. I will use my RRC3 to light the sustainer and was planning on using an e-match. Opened the reload and realized the e-match head will not fit through the throat. The motor came with an AT ignitor but I question whether a new 9V battery can fire it.

Does anyone know if the ignitor that came with this, I believe it is a First Fire Jr (?), can it be lit by a 9V battery? I have some First Fire Mini's as well (not sure where I got those) but not sure if those would be appropriate.

Anyone that can add any help here, it would be greatly appreciated.

I have a G for this case as well and I guess I could move up to the G but I'd rather not.


EDIT:

Disregard. It says right on the package that a 12v system is required for those igniters. Upon inspection of the G64W, an e-match doesn't fit up the throat on that reload either! RATS!!!

Think the mini's will fire up the F40? Could augment it with a little sliver of blue thunder propellant......

 

[mrwalsh85]

Question regarding ignitors.

I am planning on flying my first 2-stage this weekend and I am beginning to assemble some motors and I have hit a potential snag.

My first flight will be low and the sustainer I was planning on using an F40W in my 29/40-120 case. I will use my RRC3 to light the sustainer and was planning on using an e-match. Opened the reload and realized the e-match head will not fit through the throat. The motor came with an AT ignitor but I question whether a new 9V battery can fire it.

Does anyone know if the ignitor that came with this, I believe it is a First Fire Jr (?), can it be lit by a 9V battery? I have some First Fire Mini's as well (not sure where I got those) but not sure if those would be appropriate.

Anyone that can add any help here, it would be greatly appreciated.

I have a G for this case as well and I guess I could move up to the G but I'd rather not.


EDIT:

Disregard. It says right on the package that a 12v system is required for those igniters. Upon inspection of the G64W, an e-match doesn't fit up the throat on that reload either! RATS!!!

Think the mini's will fire up the F40? Could augment it with a little sliver of blue thunder propellant......

Have any Estes Pro Series II Sonic Igniters? I've been using those for my small motors, notably G55's/G110's and they fit the bill just fine. I haven't tested them with a 9v battery but seeing as I have about 10 packs of those, I think I can stand to sacrifice one for the sake of a ground test. I bought as many as I could whenever I was at a Hobby Lobby. This past weekend afforded me the opportunity to peruse the collection of a hobby shop that had closed down and I picked up all the igniters I could. 13 packs of Sonic Igniters and probably 40 packs of First Fire Igniters - a mix of 8", 24" and 36". I'll need them someday!

 

[jimzcatz]

FYI, an ematch alone won't fire a white lighting motor, it might could a blue thunder. I recommend a piece of a pyrodex pellet in the top of the F40 with an ematch. Build this into the motor as you assemble it. A 9v will light a dozen ematches.

 

[joe7]

Disregard. It says right on the package that a 12v system is required for those igniters. Upon inspection of the G64W, an e-match doesn't fit up the throat on that reload either! RATS!!!

Think the mini's will fire up the F40? Could augment it with a little sliver of blue thunder propellant......

I have wasted many, many ignitors on F40s and G64s. I would definitely augment, whether it is a pyrodex pellet or blue thunder sliver (or thermite?!).

 

[StreuB1]

FYI, an ematch alone won't fire a white lighting motor, it might could a blue thunder. I recommend a piece of a pyrodex pellet in the top of the F40 with an ematch. Build this into the motor as you assemble it. A 9v will light a dozen ematches.

Hey Jim,

Yeah I wasn't going to use just the match; I always use a little sliver of BT with them. I've just never done staging, only clustering, and never done clustering with such small motors (I only use matches.) So I went into it not thinking until I went to assy the motor last night and said "Well, sh1t....."

Are there any issues with putting the motor together with the ignitor and with it being connected to the RRC3 and whatnot in advance of going to the RCO table? Only time I do that is on complex clusters but its easy to have a test lead to have the ignitor assy jumpered out. With staging, there is no real way to do that. I was going to have the match wired and routed and hanging loose. Then on the pad, insert the ignitor and then slide the sustainer onto the interstage and then arm it.

We can go to PM's so as to not clog the AT thread. I value your input. Planning on flying it this weekend at the QCRC club launch but only if I can do it properly. Could also buy a G104T from Tim and use that since it has a throat thats big enough for a match.

EDIT:
Forgot, cannot use a match anyway as the chip itself is too wide to fit the throat so it will jam in the throat and **POOF** lol

 

[StreuB1]

I have wasted many, many ignitors on F40s and G64s. I would definitely augment, whether it is a pyrodex pellet or blue thunder sliver (or thermite?!).

Thermite in a small core motor is called a bomb. I would never suggest doing such a thing.

Unless you meant ThermAlite. Then, yes I agree; I haven't had any in years though.

 

[waltr]

Question regarding ignitors.

I am planning on flying my first 2-stage this weekend and I am beginning to assemble some motors and I have hit a potential snag.

My first flight will be low and the sustainer I was planning on using an F40W in my 29/40-120 case. I will use my RRC3 to light the sustainer and was planning on using an e-match. Opened the reload and realized the e-match head will not fit through the throat. The motor came with an AT ignitor but I question whether a new 9V battery can fire it.

Does anyone know if the ignitor that came with this, I believe it is a First Fire Jr (?), can it be lit by a 9V battery? I have some First Fire Mini's as well (not sure where I got those) but not sure if those would be appropriate.

Anyone that can add any help here, it would be greatly appreciated.

I have a G for this case as well and I guess I could move up to the G but I'd rather not.


EDIT:

Disregard. It says right on the package that a 12v system is required for those igniters. Upon inspection of the G64W, an e-match doesn't fit up the throat on that reload either! RATS!!!

Think the mini's will fire up the F40? Could augment it with a little sliver of blue thunder propellant......

I make igniters and use 40 gauge Nichrome for the element with a 2S Li-Po. Pyrogen is QuickBurst's ProCast.
http://quickburst.net/qb/making-igniters/http://quickburst.net/qb/procast-order-page/
For small nozzle motor I use twisted pair of 28ga wire wrap wire (Kelnar) as the lead and a smaller amount of pryogen.
This has worked perfectly to light a sustainer motor from an Eggtimer Quantum.

What ever igniter you plan to use GROUND TEST it with the Altimeter and battery you plan to fly.

 

[StreuB1]

Reporting back

A MissileWorks with a fresh 9V will fire neither a First Fire Jr or a First Fire Mini. The Jr. browns out the unit and it shuts down. The mini browns it out as well but it recovers. Neither end in any ignition.

Tested with a match, worked fine.

Time to get motors with larger throats.

 

[rharshberger]

Reporting back

A MissileWorks with a fresh 9V will fire neither a First Fire Jr or a First Fire Mini. The Jr. browns out the unit and it shuts down. The mini browns it out as well but it recovers. Neither end in any ignition.

Tested with a match, worked fine.

Time to get motors with larger throats.

As others have said, this is when you want to roll your own igniters. I use 30gauge wire wrapping wire (twisted together using a drill), and 40ga. Nichrome from Jacobs Online my pyrogen of choice is BKNO3V (Procast from Quickburst). I regularly use these on the AT 18/20 and 24/40 reloads without issue.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

It's the battery! With the unannounced and hidden redesign of the Duracell 9V, current has gone from 5.5A to 2A, not enough to fire regular igniters. Ematches will fire but don't parallel them on the new batteries. 3 parallel was OK with the old batteries. Energizer Ultimate Lithium are like the old ones but a 2S LiPo is cheaper and can be used as a disposable.
Old, before redesign New, like the cheap brands Lithium

 

[DeltaVee]

It's the battery! With the unannounced and hidden redesign of the Duracell 9V, current has gone from 5.5A to 2A, not enough to fire regular igniters. Ematches will fire but don't parallel them on the new batteries. 3 parallel was OK with the old batteries. Energizer Ultimate Lithium are like the old ones but a 2S LiPo is cheaper and can be used as a disposable.
Old, before redesign View attachment 516262 New, like the cheap brands View attachment 516261 Lithium View attachment 516263 View attachment 516264

I would never have seen this one coming.... but I guess that it was only a matter of time... a pack of 8 hot dogs is now 14 oz down from 16 oz, A "half gallon" of orange juice is 59 oz... Peet's coffee went from 12 to 10 oz. (not sure if the package was EVER a pound...). They don't think we will notice...

Smoke and CO2 detectors use these... in this case it might (however unlikely) cost someone their life... Not sure of course what this means to the lifetime of the battery in such a detector... but I doubt it's a good thing.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Smoke and CO2 detectors use these... in this case it might (however unlikely) cost someone their life... Not sure of course what this means to the lifetime of the battery in such a detector... but I doubt it's a good thing.

Smoke and CO detectors use a very low current all the time. The new design is OK for these. However, the way we use them greatly favors the old design. A moderate (few ma) with an occasional almost dead short when firing an igniter. This is limited by the internal resistance of the battery which is much higher with the rectangular cells. As shown with the lithium 9V, it contains 3 3V cylindrical cells and works like the old Duracell 9V.
I used 9V batteries to fire my igniters when doing testing of the 18 mm motors. The old Duracells fired at least 30 and I was lucky to get 1 firing from the new ones

 

[DeltaVee]

Smoke and CO detectors use a very low current all the time. The new design is OK for these. However, the way we use them greatly favors the old design. A moderate (few ma) with an occasional almost dead short when firing an igniter. This is limited by the internal resistance of the battery which is much higher with the rectangular cells. As shown with the lithium 9V, it contains 3 3V cylindrical cells and works like the old Duracell 9V.
I used 9V batteries to fire my igniters when doing testing of the 18 mm motors. The old Duracells fired at least 30 and I was lucky to get 1 firing from the new ones

Clearly idle speculation w/o thinking gets me nowhere... I hope EverReady doesn't follow suit... my stratologger is currently set up with a 9V. I use e-matches in the deployment cannisters and I'd really hate to have that go wrong. I guess if they do, I'll have to switch to something else...

 

[boatgeek]

Clearly idle speculation w/o thinking gets me nowhere... I hope EverReady doesn't follow suit... my stratologger is currently set up with a 9V. I use e-matches in the deployment cannisters and I'd really hate to have that go wrong. I guess if they do, I'll have to switch to something else...

Do NiCd or NiMH rechargeables have good current capacity? At least they'd fit in the same form factor.