Aerotech Igniters and Fuses in same pack?

[Aaronius31]

When I was out in the field and needed some un-bent igniters I turned to the 15-30 year old field kit I inherited. And in it was 3 sealed Aerotech Igniter packages. And to my surprise...there were what looked to be 3" long fuses...Does anyone know if fuses and igniters were sold in the same package back in the day based on people's preferences to launch?

 

[Rocketman248]

Could you post a picture? I've never seen anything like that before.

 

[Aaronius31]

I can get my friend to send me a picture of the sealed package with the fuses in it tomorrow since it's 3AM and I can post it then. But actually when I checked my pockets I had one of the fuses in it so I'll webcam pic it right now:

Actual Size is 3-4 inches. I don't exactly know the use for it since it would barely fit in an engine....unless it was only suppose to barely go in...And I know it's for sure a fuse...since...well...yunno

 

[Rocketman248]

Huh. I've never seen that before. I'm sure one of our resident motor historians will chime in soon.

 

[blackjack2564]

That's a section of thermalite fuse. Quite common back in the day. There should be some small pieces of nichrome wire to go these.

The thermalite was placed in the nozzle a piece of nichrome wrapped around the "fuse" sticking out the nozzle.

Each of the launch system leads is clipped onto each end of the wire.

Button pushed wire heats up, ignites the thermalite and off flies the rocket!

Basically you were wrapping an Estes igniter around a fuse to lite small composite motors, but thermalite burns much hotter and faster than fuse.

Sometimes you would "unwrap"a piece of the wire that encases the thermalite & do the same described above.

 

[blackjack2564]

Roll of thermalite. Very hard to find these days. about 50.00 Used for detonating TNT in mining.

Small sections cut off.

Look closely I pulled a single strand off nichrome of it. It comes wrapped with several strands of nichrome.


Wrap that around the piece.

Insert and hook up clips. That was how it was done.

I still use it today when short of igniters........ attaching some to a e-match wire end with the nichrome wrapping that's on it. Stick it up to top of motor and your good to go. I've done big K's and seen M's lit this way.

I do airstarts with it too. E-match lites it well. It can also be attached to the igniter with a wrap or 2 of the nichrome to fortify an igniter for larger motors or formulations that are hard to lite.

 

[MarkH]

Looks kind of like the Centuri sure shot method except for the use of thermite instead of magnesium.

 

[blackjack2564]

Looks kind of like the Centuri sure shot method except for the use of thermite instead of magnesium.

Yep, that too!

 

[r1dermon]

That's awesome, i can't believe these motors used to ship with thermalite. Yes this stuff is very hard to find now, but you can still find it.

 

[Aaronius31]

Thanks very much for explaining Blackjack and company! Pretty interesting stuff! Now that I know how it works, I might have to test it in the ground or something! Thanks a ton!

 

[llickteig1]

That's a section of thermalite fuse. Quite common back in the day. There should be some small pieces of nichrome wire to go these.

The thermalite was placed in the nozzle a piece of nichrome wrapped around the "fuse" sticking out the nozzle.

Each of the launch system leads is clipped onto each end of the wire.

Button pushed wire heats up, ignites the thermalite and off flies the rocket!

Basically you were wrapping an Estes igniter around a fuse to lite small composite motors, but thermalite burns much hotter and faster than fuse.

Sometimes you would "unwrap"a piece of the wire that encases the thermalite & do the same described above.

CJ description is one method Aerotech used.

Also, back in the day, Aerotech had a technique for supplementing Copperheads with a small chunk of thermalite at the pyrogen head. The reload instructions included a detailed description with pictures how to do it. I've seen it for sure on 54mm motors. I suspect there were issues getting enough oomph out of just the Copperheads to light the larger core motors.

BTW, thermalite is now BATFE regulated fuse. That is a big part of the reason it is difficult or impossible to obtain.

--Lance.

 

[jimzcatz]

That's awesome, i can't believe these motors used to ship with thermalite. Yes this stuff is very hard to find now, but you can still find it.

WHERE?. I will buy as much as I can afford.

 

[Tronman]

I remember my first Estes motors coming with nichrome wire and Jetex fuse.

 

[r1dermon]

WHERE?. I will buy as much as I can afford.

you might want to check the PGI convention. which will be in fargo ND in about 2 weeks.

to the best of my knowledge, thermalite is made in brazil, and is no longer being imported into the US due to shipping restrictions. a few years ago, restrictions were placed on bulk fireworks known as salutes, classifying them as 1.1D instead of 1.3G, salutes containing over 71g of salute composition are now considered 1.1D (high explosive). to work around this, some manufacturers have been placing a single color star in their salutes, so they could still ship full boxes of them under 1.3G shipping guidelines. 1.1D is extremely hard to import (usually 1 container per container ship). also, 12"+ shells are also now considered 1.1D and subject to the same regulation...to my knowledge, thermalite is placed under the SAME regulations, as to the best of my knowledge, it's only packed in bulk.

unfortunately, the cost effectiveness isnt there, so people stateside have been making their own, and using up old stock...but rest assured, there's a lot of old stock. to find it, you'll have to get good with the fireworks crowd. anyone who's anyone in pyrotechnics, will be in fargo, ND in a few weeks for the PGI convention. if thermalite is still stateside, it'll be there. bring your BATFE license with you, and have a nice smile for the ATF, DHS, DOT, and all the other alphabet agencies who will meet you at the gate

 

[quickburst]

I have two boxes of it a guy gave me a few years ago.

Its labeled cXa thermalite Igniter cord and "Made In Canada" by Fabrique in Brownsburg, Que. Its also labeled 10 M "Slow". I assume there were different burn rates? It's old as dirt. I assume the 10m is the length, and it looks about right.

iPhone photo, excuse the lack of detail. I love the phone but the camera is lacking (what were they thinking?).

I'd love to sell it, but I'm not interested in finding out if/how it can be shipped. Someone want to pick it up at LDRS? PM me and we'll work something out.

 

[shreadvector]

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showpost.php?p=84211&postcount=4

I have two boxes of it a guy gave me a few years ago.

Its labeled cXa thermalite Igniter cord and "Made In Canada" by Fabrique in Brownsburg, Que. Its also labeled 10 M "Slow". I assume there were different burn rates? It's old as dirt. I assume the 10m is the length, and it looks about right.

iPhone photo, excuse the lack of detail. I love the phone but the camera is lacking (what were they thinking?).

I'd love to sell it, but I'm not interested in finding out if/how it can be shipped. Someone want to pick it up at LDRS? PM me and we'll work something out.

 

[r1dermon]

People use mantitor cord nowadays, since thermalite is hard to find. You'll be able to find 100m rolls at PGI, but other than that, good luck. ICI manufactures mantitor, and you'll need an FEL to purchase it.

 

[JoeG]

I used to use thermalite ignitors exclusively in composite motors back in the early 90's. The thermalite comes with five (I think) strands of nichrome wire wrapped around it. We would remove three to reduce the resistance and still have redundancy.
Then we wrapped the stripped ends of two very small insulated wires just a 1/4" or so apart around the thermalite and making sure they were in contact with the nichrome. These wires were long enough to place the thermalite up into the front end of the motor and have the wires exit the nozzle for the clips. The nichrome already attached acted as the initiator for the thermalite.

I used this system successfully on many clustered flights up through 38 mm.

I still have a little left but it has dried out and crumbles apart when you touch it. Great stuff though.

 

[shreadvector]

FSI igniters from the dawn of time.

https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/77fsi26.html

 

[Bazookadale]

FSI provided thermalite igniters for their black powder motors. they simply told you to insert in the motor and attach your micro clips to the end - you were bound to hit at least 1 piece of nichrome which would ignite the wick

 

[shreadvector]

FSI provided thermalite igniters for their black powder motors. they simply told you to insert in the motor and attach your micro clips to the end - you were bound to hit at least 1 piece of nichrome which would ignite the wick

FSI called them "microgator clips", not micro clips. They always showed toothed alligator clips and that is what they provided with their launch systems. They were slightly better at biting around the thermalite and grabbing the wires wrapped around. That is, until the teeth filled with crud (or until the low amp firing button burned out).

 

[JDcluster]

The last roll I had came from Mexico.
The Brazilian stuff was old stock back in 1999.....


JD

you might want to check the PGI convention. which will be in fargo ND in about 2 weeks.

to the best of my knowledge, thermalite is made in brazil, and is no longer being imported into the US due to shipping restrictions. a few years ago, restrictions were placed on bulk fireworks known as salutes, classifying them as 1.1D instead of 1.3G, salutes containing over 71g of salute composition are now considered 1.1D (high explosive). to work around this, some manufacturers have been placing a single color star in their salutes, so they could still ship full boxes of them under 1.3G shipping guidelines. 1.1D is extremely hard to import (usually 1 container per container ship). also, 12"+ shells are also now considered 1.1D and subject to the same regulation...to my knowledge, thermalite is placed under the SAME regulations, as to the best of my knowledge, it's only packed in bulk.

unfortunately, the cost effectiveness isnt there, so people stateside have been making their own, and using up old stock...but rest assured, there's a lot of old stock. to find it, you'll have to get good with the fireworks crowd. anyone who's anyone in pyrotechnics, will be in fargo, ND in a few weeks for the PGI convention. if thermalite is still stateside, it'll be there. bring your BATFE license with you, and have a nice smile for the ATF, DHS, DOT, and all the other alphabet agencies who will meet you at the gate

 

[dave carver]

Thermalite also has a property that makes it attractive for lighting outboard motors on clusters. If you insert the thermalite in Teflon tubing it burns at the normal rate. Insert the thermalite in a heatshrink tubing and it will burn so fast that small test pieces I tried would shoot across the ground like little rockets. Sheathing in heatshrink vastly speeds up the burn time. Old Hi Power mag artical of igniting like 30 G80's at the same time using heatshrink & thermalite and 1 flashbulb for ignition. They all lit...

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I've used Thermalite a lot for igniting outboards over the last 20 years of HPR. There is a lot of variation in timing. How it burns in the tube (non-shrinking tube works but it can't be too loose. Like quickmatch, the tube helps spread the fire along the fuse. It works well, but make sure the center motor will provide enough velocity to keep the flight path straight in the event of a staggered ignition.
My Big Motoreater on a M1850 & 4 J350s at NSL 2008 using Thermalite.
[YOUTUBE]MW5XtJ5Vkr4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[accooper]

Man, Blackjack, welcome to the older than dirt club. You are member No. 3 as I am No.1 and Jeff is No. 2. I had not seen one of those in a coons age.

Andrew

 

[Aaronius31]

This is a bit off topic but oh well...

Can anyone list for me ALL the types of Aerotech F and G engines for me real quick? All I know of is the Blue Thunder and White Lightning...is there a smokey-trail one or a green goblin at all? Anything else?

 

[Rocketman248]

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/products.aspx

 

[UPscaler]

Aerotech's propellants in F and G are as follows:
J=Black Jack (black smoke)
FJ=fast black jack
G=Mojave Green
W=White Lightning
T=Blue Thunder
R=Redline

I highly doubt you have any mojave green, since your stash is as old as I am, but I'm sure you have black jack, white lightning, blue thunder, and maybe even some redline. The letters will appear at the end of the motor code I.E

G33-4J

G80-10T

Braden

 

[eggplant]

Don't forget metal storm and warp nine! Those are new, though.

 

[Aaronius31]

Thanks Rocketman, UPscaler, and eggplant!

Now the thing is, mine also said the name of propellant type on the black powder cap (ex. Aerotech White Lightning G**-*W) ...are the names spelled out on newer engines also?