HAZMAT Shipping Update.

[dlrflyer1967]

DOT has changed the rules so that A-G motors are no longer hazmat. There are rules, but the gist is, no hazmat restrictions for motors up to 62.5g. Pilfered straight from Aerotech:

AeroTech/Quest has determined and confirmed with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) that previously DOT-approved model rocket motors, rocket motor reloading kits and igniters that are reclassified under special permit DOT-SP 7887 as Flammable solids, organic, n.o.s., Division 4.1, Identification number UN1325, Packing group II may be offered for ground transportation only according to the limited quantity provisions of 49 CFR 173.156, 49 CFR 173.151 and 49 CFR 173.315, under the following conditions:

1. Inner packages may contain up to 1.0 kg (2.2 pounds) net propellant weight capacity each, packed in a strong outer packaging (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)(i)).

1. All outer packaging and gross weight requirements of DOT-SP 7887 must be met including:
   • The outer packaging must not exceed 11.3 kg. (25 pounds) gross weight if no model rocket motors contain more than 30 grams of propellant. The outer packaging shall not exceed 4.5 kg. (10 pounds) gross weight if any model rocket motors contain more than 30 grams, but none contain more than 62.5 grams of propellant.
   • Outer packaging must be UN 4C1 Boxes of natural wood; UN 4D Plywood boxes; UN 4F Boxes of reconstituted wood; or UN 4G Fiberboard boxes.
2. The DOT Limited Quantity (LQ) marking must be applied to each outer packaging (49 CFR 172.315):
3. No other marking or labeling needs to be applied to the outer packaging (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)).
4. No shipping paper is required (49CFR 173.151(d)).
5. A current copy of the DOT-SP 7887 special permit must be maintained at each facility where the package is offered or reoffered for transportation.
6. The model rocket motors and reload kits authorized under this special permit DOT-SP 7887 may be shipped in the same outer packaging with non-hazardous materials needed to construct model rockets.
7. Igniters originally classed as Division 1.4G or 1.4S may be shipped with the rocket motors or reload kits.
8. Multiple outer packages may be overpacked in accordance with the provisions of 49 CFR 173.25.
9. Shipments of limited quantities of division4.1 flammable solids are not subject to placarding requirements (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)).
10. Hazmat fees will not be incurred for packages shipped in this manner via FedEx or UPS.
11. Per DOT-SP 7887: “A person who receives a shipment of model rocket motor kits classed under this special permit but is not a grantee may reoffer the kits for transportation in conformance with this special permit provided no modifications or changes are made to the inner packagings and they are reoffered for transportation in conformance with this special permit and the HMR.”

Basically this means that we will now be able to ship 25 lb. gross weight shipments of model rocket motors that contain no more than 30 grams of propellant each and 10 lb. gross weight shipments of model rocket motors that contain more than 30 grams of propellant each, but no more than 62.5 grams of propellant each, without HazMat labels, HazMat paperwork or HazMat fees providing the DOT Limited Quantity marking is used. Larger size and weight shipments can be made as long as the 10 lb. or 25 lb. inner packs utilize UN approved boxes within an outer pack fiberboard box, which has the DOT Limited Quantity marking applied.

Please see the following links for the actual CFR regulations involved in this interpretation and explanation:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...ubchapter-C/part-173/subpart-B/section-173.25

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-173/subpart-D/section-173.151

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-173/subpart-D/section-173.156

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-172/subpart-D/section-172.315

Please refer to the Master Motor Matrixfor propellant weights. A copy of DOT-SP 7887 can be viewed here.

 

[Gastrok]

Yes, this is a great development. Aerotech posted about it a few days ago here: link

 

[rharshberger]

DOT has changed the rules so that A-G motors are no longer hazmat. There are rules, but the gist is, no hazmat restrictions for motors up to 62.5g. Pilfered straight from Aerotech:

AeroTech/Quest has determined and confirmed with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) that previously DOT-approved model rocket motors, rocket motor reloading kits and igniters that are reclassified under special permit DOT-SP 7887 as Flammable solids, organic, n.o.s., Division 4.1, Identification number UN1325, Packing group II may be offered for ground transportation only according to the limited quantity provisions of 49 CFR 173.156, 49 CFR 173.151 and 49 CFR 173.315, under the following conditions:

1. Inner packages may contain up to 1.0 kg (2.2 pounds) net propellant weight capacity each, packed in a strong outer packaging (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)(i)).
2. All outer packaging and gross weight requirements of DOT-SP 7887 must be met including:
   • The outer packaging must not exceed 11.3 kg. (25 pounds) gross weight if no model rocket motors contain more than 30 grams of propellant. The outer packaging shall not exceed 4.5 kg. (10 pounds) gross weight if any model rocket motors contain more than 30 grams, but none contain more than 62.5 grams of propellant.
   • Outer packaging must be UN 4C1 Boxes of natural wood; UN 4D Plywood boxes; UN 4F Boxes of reconstituted wood; or UN 4G Fiberboard boxes.
3. The DOT Limited Quantity (LQ) marking must be applied to each outer packaging (49 CFR 172.315):
4. No other marking or labeling needs to be applied to the outer packaging (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)).
5. No shipping paper is required (49CFR 173.151(d)).
6. A current copy of the DOT-SP 7887 special permit must be maintained at each facility where the package is offered or reoffered for transportation.
7. The model rocket motors and reload kits authorized under this special permit DOT-SP 7887 may be shipped in the same outer packaging with non-hazardous materials needed to construct model rockets.
8. Igniters originally classed as Division 1.4G or 1.4S may be shipped with the rocket motors or reload kits.
9. Multiple outer packages may be overpacked in accordance with the provisions of 49 CFR 173.25.
10. Shipments of limited quantities of division4.1 flammable solids are not subject to placarding requirements (49CFR 173.151(b)(1)).
11. Hazmat fees will not be incurred for packages shipped in this manner via FedEx or UPS.
12. Per DOT-SP 7887: “A person who receives a shipment of model rocket motor kits classed under this special permit but is not a grantee may reoffer the kits for transportation in conformance with this special permit provided no modifications or changes are made to the inner packagings and they are reoffered for transportation in conformance with this special permit and the HMR.”

Basically this means that we will now be able to ship 25 lb. gross weight shipments of model rocket motors that contain no more than 30 grams of propellant each and 10 lb. gross weight shipments of model rocket motors that contain more than 30 grams of propellant each, but no more than 62.5 grams of propellant each, without HazMat labels, HazMat paperwork or HazMat fees providing the DOT Limited Quantity marking is used. Larger size and weight shipments can be made as long as the 10 lb. or 25 lb. inner packs utilize UN approved boxes within an outer pack fiberboard box, which has the DOT Limited Quantity marking applied.

Please see the following links for the actual CFR regulations involved in this interpretation and explanation:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...ubchapter-C/part-173/subpart-B/section-173.25

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-173/subpart-D/section-173.151

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-173/subpart-D/section-173.156

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...bchapter-C/part-172/subpart-D/section-172.315

Please refer to the Master Motor Matrixfor propellant weights. A copy of DOT-SP 7887 can be viewed here.

However all this still requires an individual to be trained and authorized to ship Hazardous Materials, not just anyone can ship HazMat. It does remove a lot of the hazmat shipping fees associated with ceryain motors though which isxdefinitely a good thing.

 

[cwbullet]

I hope sites start removing the HAZMAT fee. I have yet to see a dealer removing the HAZMAT charge to date.

 

[SolarYellow]

BMS, Hobbylinc, and ACSupply have all taken it off all the big Estes and AT Hobbyline stuff except the G138. BMS has taken it off the HPR stuff where it can be taken off. BuyRocketMotors still says HAZ is required on the product pages as of a few days ago, but when I added a test reload to my card, I got to the checkout stage without HAZ being added, so they backend of the site appears GTG. I believe Wildman is working on it.

 

[Gastrok]

BMS, Hobbylinc, and ACSupply have all taken it off all the big Estes and AT Hobbyline stuff except the G138. BMS has taken it off the HPR stuff where it can be taken off. BuyRocketMotors still says HAZ is required on the product pages as of a few days ago, but when I added a test reload to my card, I got to the checkout stage without HAZ being added, so they backend of the site appears GTG. I believe Wildman is working on it.

Just repeated the test with BuyRocketMotors, and the HAZ fee is not added when you go to check out even though the product page says the fee is required.

 

[cwbullet]

Good catch - thanks guys.

 

[Gastrok]

Having just moved up to the F/G range of motors I am pretty psyched. The HAZ fee was a big blocker for me.

 

[Bill S]

Wow, that is good news. I had been waiting to make another motor order until I needed a bunch of motors, but the lack of Hazmat is a real bonus and may prompt me to make that order sooner.

 

[cwbullet]

It will have a huge effect on the expansion of the use of MidPower Motors.

 

[Gastrok]

It will have a huge effect on the expansion of the use of MidPower Motors.

I really have to wonder if the manufacturers will be able to keep up in the short term. Personally, my orders for SU motors requiring a HAZ shipping fee is going to up significantly. If it wasn't nearing the end of the prime launching season here in New England, I'd be buying a load of motors I might not have otherwise.

Longer term I'm sure the manufacturers will be quite happy.

 

[cwbullet]

I really have to wonder if the manufacturers will be able to keep up in the short term. Personally, my orders for SU motors requiring a HAZ shipping fee is going to up significantly. If it wasn't nearing the end of the prime launching season here in New England, I'd be buying a load of motors I might not have otherwise.

Longer term I'm sure the manufacturers will be quite happy.

Atleast for the shirt term - I doubt it. Buy Rocket Motors has trouble keeping my favorite mid-power motors in stock. It forces me to pre-order from BMS.

 

[lakeroadster]

I contacted Apogee Components, via email. They are waiting for paperwork from Aerotech and FedEx.

 

[Bill S]

Sirius Rockets hasn't updated their website yet, and I wasn't able to find a link to talk to them to let them know about it, assuming they hadn't heard. They already had way higher shipping costs than I like to see, but their "sale" prices were decent. If they can just get rid of the Hazmat charge, they'd be more competitive.

 

[cwbullet]

I contacted Apogee Components, via email. They are waiting for paperwork from Aerotech and FedEx.

That is prudent.

 

[rcktnut]

Sirius Rockets hasn't updated their website yet, and I wasn't able to find a link to talk to them to let them know about it, assuming they hadn't heard. They already had way higher shipping costs than I like to see, but their "sale" prices were decent. If they can just get rid of the Hazmat charge, they'd be more competitive.

Dave Miller -920-915-7599, [email protected]

 

[burkefj]

However all this still requires an individual to be trained and authorized to ship Hazardous Materials, not just anyone can ship HazMat. It does remove a lot of the hazmat shipping fees associated with ceryain motors though which isxdefinitely a good thing.

If they are not classified as hazmat and just need the limit quantity labeling then why do they need to be trained for HazMat handling?

 

[ShadowSpire48]

Is it just reloads that are non-haz or are the SU stuff in it as well? I'd love to pick up some F52C and some more F67's and they're already expensive

 

[burkefj]

Is it just reloads that are non-haz or are the SU stuff in it as well? I'd love to pick up some F52C and some more F67's and they're already expensive

Anything that meets the propellent mass limits.

 

[manixFan]

If they are not classified as hazmat and just need the limit quantity labeling then why do they need to be trained for HazMat handling?

From the first post:

“may be offered for ground transportation only according to the limited quantity provisions of 49 CFR 173.156, 49 CFR 173.151 and 49 CFR 173.315, under the following conditions:”

From 173.315:
“Each "Hazmat employee", as defined in § 171.8 who performs a function subject to this special permit must receive training on the requirements and conditions of this special permit in addition to the training required by § 172.700 through § 172.704.”

It’s in the regs. Basically, they are still Haz Mat, they just have a shipping exception – but only if packaged properly.


Tony

 

[Scott_650]

If they are not classified as hazmat and just need the limit quantity labeling then why do they need to be trained for HazMat handling?

The items are still in a hazard class and are required to be packaged and marked correctly so the training is probably still relevant - there’s always the possibility of reactivity with other stuff and regardless of the changes you still need to know the restrictions so you stay compliant.

I was a logistics guy before retirement and had plenty of hazmat training though it was both very general and very specific based on the hazardous items I was responsible for as a supervisor and a limited-scope inspector.

 

[burkefj]

From the first post:

“may be offered for ground transportation only according to the limited quantity provisions of 49 CFR 173.156, 49 CFR 173.151 and 49 CFR 173.315, under the following conditions:”

From 172.315:
“Each "Hazmat employee", as defined in § 171.8 who performs a function subject to this special permit must receive training on the requirements and conditions of this special permit in addition to the training required by § 172.700 through § 172.704.”

It’s in the regs.


Tony

Thanks for posting that, I think most people have the impression it's just a free-for-all and anybody can mail motors now by ground.

 

[manixFan]

Thanks for posting that, I think most people have the impression it's just a free-for-all and anybody can mail motors now by ground.

You’re welcome. There are still a lot of regs and the exemption only carries through to re-shippers in certain circumstances. I strongly suggest folks read through the regs before thinking they can now ship these motors.

 

[burkefj]

You’re welcome. There are still a lot of regs and the exemption only carries through to re-shippers in certain circumstances. I strongly suggest folks read through the regs before thinking they can now ship these motors

For my part I'm a motor dealer but I only ship USPS mailable stuff so I was fine anyway but it does mean that the cost of receiving larger choices of motors is quite a bit less now which is great.

 

[Art Upton]

Just repeated the test with BuyRocketMotors, and the HAZ fee is not added when you go to check out even though the product page says the fee is required.

View attachment 609014

o

Anything that meets the propellent mass limits.

62.5 grams Propellannt and the shipping reuirements

 

[Sandy H.]

From the first post:

“may be offered for ground transportation only according to the limited quantity provisions of 49 CFR 173.156, 49 CFR 173.151 and 49 CFR 173.315, under the following conditions:”

From 173.315:
“Each "Hazmat employee", as defined in § 171.8 who performs a function subject to this special permit must receive training on the requirements and conditions of this special permit in addition to the training required by § 172.700 through § 172.704.”

It’s in the regs. Basically, they are still Haz Mat, they just have a shipping exception – but only if packaged properly.


Tony

Thank you. I felt like I was reading 2 different threads, but that information cleared up my misunderstanding very concisely. It can be very important to read the words correctly and not make assumptions and I think your post helped me see why I was confused.

I don't really think training matters for me, as I can't see myself shipping motors either way, as I just want to buy motors and watch them sit in the rocket while burning 10-20 igniters and the motor not lighting (exaggerating, but we all have a bad day lighting one every now and then. . . ). The reduced shipping cost will be appreciated. I'll have more cash to buy igniters!

Sandy.

 

[bjphoenix]

BMS, Hobbylinc, and ACSupply have all taken it off

erockets?

 

[SolarYellow]

Haven’t checked them. Never found Randy’s prices on motors to be that favorable.

 

[rharshberger]

You’re welcome. There are still a lot of regs and the exemption only carries through to re-shippers in certain circumstances. I strongly suggest folks read through the regs before thinking they can now ship these motors.

Which is exactly why and what I was trying to convey with my post, thank Manix.

 

[BEC]

BMS, Hobbylinc, and ACSupply have all taken it off all the big Estes and AT Hobbyline stuff except the G138. BMS has taken it off the HPR stuff where it can be taken off. BuyRocketMotors still says HAZ is required on the product pages as of a few days ago, but when I added a test reload to my card, I got to the checkout stage without HAZ being added, so they backend of the site appears GTG. I believe Wildman is working on it.

Does AC just not insist on charging it when you actually make an order? All the Estes E and F motors have the "we have to add HAZMAT" note on the various motor listings.

If I really can order the 29mm Estes motors from ACS without HAZMAT charges, that will increase my use of them again. It fell off sharply after Hobby Lobby stopped carrying them.