LPR Idea: 12V Rocket Launch System Schematic Using Transistors Configured as Darlington Pair; Also MOSFET-based Circuit

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brockrwood

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This idea is strictly for LPR use and black powder rocket engines. I have no idea if this would be suitable for composite propellant rocket engines and the igniters used to ignite them.

The idea came from discussions in this existing post:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...imation-eyes-on-and-opinions-welcomed.179560/
Objective: Connect a 12 volt, sealed lead acid battery to Estes-type igniters using a compact system that lets me stand 20 feet away from the launch pad while pushing the "launch" buttons.

Here is what I came up with:

schematic_darlington_controller_cropped.jpg

There is one box near the launch pad. I will call it the "transistor box". It contains two NPN BJT transistors configured as a "Darlington Pair" to achieve high current gain.

A separate "controller box" is attached to the "transistor" box. It contains an on/off toggle switch to completely turn off the system. It also contains two normally open, push button switches, wired in series. Both push buttons have to be pressed at the same time to complete the circuit. The on/off switch also has to be in the "on" position. All this redundancy is to minimize the possibility of an accidental launch.

The gist of the idea is this: When you press the launch buttons you connect the 12 volt battery to the base of the first transistor in the Darlington Pair through a 470 ohms resistor. This turns on the first transistor in the pair which, in turn, turns on the second transistor in the pair.

The second transistor is a high-current type which conducts the high current from the battery to the igniter.

The whole process should not take more than three seconds to launch the rocket. Then you release the push button switches and current stops flowing.

Both transistors in the pair are fully saturated, meaning they are fully "on" when you push the buttons.

I chose a TIP41 for the first transistor in the pair and a 2N3771 for the second transistor. The second transistor needs to have a high current rating (preferably more than 12 amps). The first transistor can be a medium power transistor like the TIP41. Both transistors are NPN types.

The current from the battery cannot get to the igniter unless the second transistor in the pair, the 2N3771 is turn on. The current flowing through the igniter has to flow through the collector and out of the emitter of the 2N3771 to get to ground. If the 2N3771 is not conducting, as it is not when the push buttons are not pressed, no current can flow. The circuit is "open". The 2N3771 is acting as a solid state "switch" to turn the flow of current on and off.

There should not be a lot of power dissipation by the transistors so I don't think they need to be mounted on heatsinks. Yes, 12 amps flowing from collector to emitter in the 2N3771 is lot of current, but when the 2N3771 is fully saturated, the voltage drop from collector to emitter will be less than a volt, I think, so the wattage (power dissipated as heat) will be just 12 watts or less. And that will be for three seconds or less.

The key is the high current rating of the second transistor in the pair. It has to be high enough to handle the current flowing through the igniter(s) which can be a lot - 12 amps if the igniter is 1 ohm in resistance and the battery is 12 volts. It has to have a nice, high current rating for the current on its collector when current is flowing to the igniter. I chose the 2N3771 because I have some in my parts bin and because the current rating on the collector is 30 amps. That should do it.

The controller box can have fairly low power switches in it and the wire from the controller box to the "transistor box" can be fairly light gauge, like it is here (22 gauge). All the controller box switches do is connect the 12 volt battery through the 470 ohms resistor to the base of the TIP41 transistor. That is a pretty small amount of current - about 26 milliamps (.026 amp).

So, what do you think? Is this schematic ready to prototype on some perfboard? Am I missing something?
 
The design seems OK and should work but would add an in-line 10 amp fuse F1 and a continuity check using switch SW4, the LED and R3.
SW1 is usually a keylock switch.
View attachment 613377

I like the keylock switch. I have a couple of those in the parts bin somewhere.

The fuse is a good idea just in case something goes terribly wrong. That little sealed lead acid battery is amazingly powerful. I bet it could melt insulation on a wire if there is a dead short.

So SW4 is just a simple push button to push to make the LED light up to see if there is continuity (alligator clips properly clipped onto igniter)?
 
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Personally I would use a N channel mosfet to replace Q1 and Q2.
What scares me about MOSFETs for this application is gate capacitance holding the MOSFET in a conducting state and touchiness (super high impedance on the input so that a tiny current turns it on). I don’t want an accidental launch. Can you show me a quick schematic of what it would look like? Pretty please? :)
 
Hmm. Another problem. When launching a cluster, the current drawn by the igniters goes up. Way up. That is because resistors (igniters) in parallel present an overall lower resistance than the value of any single resistor. According to an article by Mr. Brohm, the resistance of an Estes igniter before it ignites the engine is a mere .711 ohms. With a 12 volt battery, that results in a current of 12/.711 or 16.87 amps!! Woo doggy!

If you put three of those igniters in parallel (cluster rocket), the effective resistance is only .237 ohms!! With a 12 volt battery that is 12/.237 or 50.63 amps!! This is getting close to a short circuit.

At that point, it is just the battery’s ability to supply current that is the limiting factor on the current.

I don’t know of any BJT transistors that can handle 50.63 amps of current.

https://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/Igniter_Continuity_Tests.pdf
 
What scares me about MOSFETs for this application is gate capacitance holding the MOSFET in a conducting state and touchiness (super high impedance on the input so that a tiny current turns it on). I don’t want an accidental launch. Can you show me a quick schematic of what it would look like? Pretty please? :)
Example circuit:
1699064969311.png
 
A couple suggestions.
You have the collectors tied to B+ all the time and the emitters tied to ground all the time. The Darlington Pair has very high current gain, more than you need. It doesn't take much noise to fire the transistors. You are switching the base of the transistors. You need a hard switch on the B+ or B- to the transistors to be safe.
 
Only briefly, as the resistance increases as the wire heats up. In the link he reports the average current is only 1 amp to fire an Estes igniter.
There are plenty of mosfets that can handle 50 amps and more.
So, what you are saying is that, long before the current through the igniter(s) hits 50 amps, the igniter is going to fire (somewhere around 1 amp). Also, the igniter doesn’t stay at .711 ohm, the resistance rises as the igniter heats up so that lowers the curent.

Plus, per your suggestion there is a 10 amp fuse on the positive side of the battery just in case something goes wrong (such as short).

So my transistor, be it a BJT or a MOSFET doesn’t have to be rated at 50 amps.
 
Still need a switch to kill B+ on the igniter. Above schematic provides a current path from battery through igniter to ground if the FET is failed conducting with all the switches open.
 
Redrew the schematic using the mosfet with an optional LED ARM indicator.
View attachment 613667
It takes quite a bit of voltage to turn on a MOSFET but very little current. This is different ftom BJT’s. I have to change my mindset.

IMG_8644.jpeg
As soon as you put about 7 volts on the gate lead it is almost fully saturated with an on resistance of a mere 5.5 milliohms. What weird creatures these MOSFETs are!
 
Redrew the schematic using the mosfet with an optional LED ARM indicator.
View attachment 613667
@sghioto So, the 10K resistor on the gate lead and the 10K pull-down resistor on the gate lead ought to prevent any accidental launches, I would think. @jderimig suggested a switch close to the positive side or negative side of the battery to connect and disconnect the battery from the whole system. He was referring to the Darlington Pair version of the circuit, however, so I am not sure if he still recommends that for the MOSFET version. Either way, that switch would have to be one that can handle high current, as the high current from the battery will be flowing through it when you press the two launch buttons. I was trying to avoid having a high current switch in the system.

I did not draw it in my original schematic, but the battery is connected to the system using two heavy gauge lamp wires (16 gauge or 14 gauge I think). On the end of each wire is a heavy duty alligator clip that connects to the connector on the battery (one for positive and one for negative). My idea of a battery on/off "switch" was to simply connect or disconnect the alligator clip from the positive pole of the battery. Is that sufficient?
 
Still need a switch to kill B+ on the igniter.
Better idea is to add a third LED as a Fault indicator. If Q1 is shorted LED3 is ON. In normal operation pressing the continuity button without an igniter connected will light both LED2 and LED3 as a confirmation they are good. Pressing the Launch buttons will light LED3 indicating Q1 is good.
1699219752162.png
 
Vgs Max is 4V for that mosfet (max voltage from gate to source). 12V nominal (14V for a fully charged lead acid battery) across a 10k,10k divider gives 6 or7 volts at the gate. Parameters exceeded is always bad....
Turn on is 2V. A 3v3 or 3v6 zenner diode across gate to source will fix this.


edit: woops the 4v is the max THRESHOLD turn on voltage required
Max Vgs is 20V.
 
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Better idea is to add a third LED as a Fault indicator. If Q1 is shorted LED3 is ON. In normal operation pressing the continuity button without an igniter connected will light both LED2 and LED3 as


a confirmation they are good. Pressing the Launch buttons will light LED3 indicating Q1 is good.
View attachment 613681

What is the nifty software or other tool you use to draw these schematics? I enjoy hand-drawing my Forrest Mims style schematics, but changes are easier to make using software! :)
 
Vgs Max is 4V for that mosfet (max voltage from gate to source). 12V nominal (14V for a fully charged lead acid battery) across a 10k,10k divider gives 6 or7 volts at the gate. Parameters exceeded is always bad....
I saw the voltage divider in @sghioto ’s circuit. Some of the MOSFETs I ordered have a limit of 16 volts for gate to source voltage so a voltage divider is necessary I think. My sealed lead acid battery has a fully charged voltage of 13.7 volts! I am nervous if the max gate voltage on the MOSFET is 16 volts.
 
@sghioto So, the 10K resistor on the gate lead and the 10K pull-down resistor on the gate lead ought to prevent any accidental launches, I would think. @jderimig suggested a switch close to the positive side or negative side of the battery to connect and disconnect the battery from the whole system. He was referring to the Darlington Pair version of the circuit, however, so I am not sure if he still recommends that for the MOSFET version.
YES!!!!!! You need a mechanical switch to disconnect the igniter from battery. You never, ever want B+ voltage on an igniter lead ALL THE TIME just waiting for a command or accidentally provided source to ground.

Incidentally your design would not conform to NAR safety code without this manual disconnect.
 
Vgs Max is 4V for that mosfet (max voltage from gate to source). 12V nominal (14V for a fully charged lead acid battery) across a 10k,10k divider gives 6 or7 volts at the gate. Parameters exceeded is always bad....
Turn on is 2V. A 3v3 or 3v6 zenner diode across gate to source will fix this.


edit: woops the 4v is the max THRESHOLD turn on voltage required
Max Vgs is 20V.
I am still nervous about the gate input voltage on MOSFET’s. To turn it on fully it looks like you need 7 maybe 8 volts. But the “absolute maximum rating” for gate voltage on some of these MOSFET’s is a mere 16 volts. To get the MOSFET to turn on completely, you need a voltage that is half way to “absolute maximum”. I need to design carefully and be very careful when prototyping.
 
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