Advanced Topics - restricted access

[SCE to AUX]

when is one considered a "senior NAR/TRA Member"?

When you are over 18 years of age.

 

[troj]

when is one considered a "senior NAR/TRA Member"?

Basically, it means you're an adult (over 18).

-Kevin

 

[jsdemar]

Congrats to ITAR and TRF for being as useful to international relations as the Klu-Klux-Klan or the BNP

Your quaint collection of antiquated islands has a similar set of export restrictions, administered by your BIS:
https://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/export-control-organisation

In fact, all NATO countries are required by treaty to have export controls on potential military goods and information.

Some people may find the tone of your message, and the content of your signature, to be political in nature and a violation of the forum's guidelines.

 

[MaxQ]

I hope everyone sees this as its not Kevin personally attacking or denying access its more of a CYA thing. Hell *I* cant get in for another few months.

Ben

You are FINALLY going to cert, right?

 

[o1d_dude]

Well, rules and application:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=17943

I was turned down :no:

You forgot to tell Troj that you live in northern Ohio, you know, just across Lake Erie.

 

[powderburner]

I was turned down :no:

Isn't Canada one of our states?





(just kidding!!!!)

 

[mkadams001]

I'm not too happy about the HPR restriction. It doesn't make much sense to me but, it is something that I have come to expect from TRF. I bow down to the high power flyers of the forum. Your skills and knowledge allow you to places I can only dream of visiting. Now I will take my worn copy of "Rocket Manual for Amateurs" and build the rockets of 50 years past. Build your wall and keep your secrets to yourself. Censorship is the rule here after all.

 

[cjl]

I'm not too happy about the HPR restriction. It doesn't make much sense to me but, it is something that I have come to expect from TRF. I bow down to the high power flyers of the forum. Your skills and knowledge allow you to places I can only dream of visiting. Now I will take my worn copy of "Rocket Manual for Amateurs" and build the rockets of 50 years past. Build your wall and keep your secrets to yourself. Censorship is the rule here after all.

I honestly can't say I see anything wrong with the HPR restriction. The vast, vast majority of homemade motors fall into HPR thrust classes, and the techniques used are very clearly HPR related. They can also be dangerous if done incorrectly.

If you genuinely want to do EX/Research motor making, L1 is hardly a restriction at all (especially since to launch it at a TRA launch, you need L2).

 

[sunward]

You forgot to tell Troj that you live in northern Ohio, you know, just across Lake Erie.

He would then want proof!

I figured being the president of Canadian Association of Rocketry - L'Association Canadienne De Fuséologie and doing some of certification testing - recognized by NAR and TRA - would be enough.

Nope.

Isn't Canada one of our states?
...
(just kidding!!!!)

Nope.

 

[WiK]

Your quaint collection of antiquated islands has a similar set of export restrictions, administered by your BIS:
https://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/export-control-organisation

As far as I can see, that doesn't apply to information (the site only mentions "items" and "goods"). Though it wouldn't at all surprise me if that was covered by a separate law.

I'm not too happy about the HPR restriction. It doesn't make much sense to me but, it is something that I have come to expect from TRF.

As cjl said, the majority of orgainised research launching is done under TRA rules/insurance, and they require a minimum of L2 before you can fly research at one of their launches. As a bonus, being HPR certified also proves you're a senior member of TRA/NAR.

I figured being the president of Canadian Association of Rocketry - L'Association Canadienne De Fuséologie and doing some of certification testing - recognized by NAR and TRA - would be enough.

Nope.

Unless the CAR presidency comes with US citizenship, there's not a whole lot that can be done... At the end of the day, if the US Govt suddenly decide to take an interest troj will be the one who has to answer to them.

 

[blackjack2564]

"You can make some of the people happy, all of the time, and all of the people happy, some of the time".

BUT: "you can never make all of the people happy ALL of the time"




Capt. Kangaroo!

 

[troj]

I figured being the president of Canadian Association of Rocketry - L'Association Canadienne De Fuséologie and doing some of certification testing - recognized by NAR and TRA - would be enough.

As soon as you get the US Dept of State to recognize the CAR Presidency as relevant to this, then we'll talk.

-Kevin

 

[frb]

deleted by mod

 

[jsdemar]

As far as I can see, that doesn't apply to information (the site only mentions "items" and "goods"). Though it wouldn't at all surprise me if that was covered by a separate law.

"Items" also means "information transfer via electronic form". You should take a look at UK Export Control Order 2008. "Research" guidelines are at: https://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/eco/docs/guidance-academics.pdf

 

[mkadams001]

I honestly can't say I see anything wrong with the HPR restriction. The vast, vast majority of homemade motors fall into HPR thrust classes, and the techniques used are very clearly HPR related. They can also be dangerous if done incorrectly.

If you genuinely want to do EX/Research motor making, L1 is hardly a restriction at all (especially since to launch it at a TRA launch, you need L2).

My position has nothing to with launching. This is a rocketry related forum where you would think that you would want dialog and discussions on all topics. I can see the point of an age restriction (even though I don't agree with it) but to limit other adult rocketeers from learning more about the hobby does nothing more than create an elitist group.

 

[Peartree]

My position has nothing to with launching. This is a rocketry related forum where you would think that you would want dialog and discussions on all topics. I can see the point of an age restriction (even though I don't agree with it) but to limit other adult rocketeers from learning more about the hobby does nothing more than create an elitist group.

Bah.




By your definition, Sam's Club is an elitist group...

 

[troj]

My position has nothing to with launching. This is a rocketry related forum where you would think that you would want dialog and discussions on all topics. I can see the point of an age restriction (even though I don't agree with it) but to limit other adult rocketeers from learning more about the hobby does nothing more than create an elitist group.

Except that adults, within legal limitations, aren't prevented. The requirements for access are clearly laid out. Whether or not you choose to meet those requirements is within your control, and your control alone, with the exception on limits forced on us by ITAR.

I don't like the ITAR induced limits, but I don't like the idea of jail or hefty fines, either.

-Kevin

 

[jderimig]

but to limit other adult rocketeers from learning more about the hobby does nothing more than create an elitist group.

Believe me, if you saw that group together in a single room, "elite" would not be the first word that would come to mind.....

 

[cjl]

My position has nothing to with launching. This is a rocketry related forum where you would think that you would want dialog and discussions on all topics. I can see the point of an age restriction (even though I don't agree with it) but to limit other adult rocketeers from learning more about the hobby does nothing more than create an elitist group.

I really don't see L1 HPR certification as an elitist group, honestly. It's approximately as difficult to get a L1 as it is to tie your shoes (and it's FAR easier than making your own motors). Anyone who has a NAR or TRA membership and already flies MPR could probably get an L1 in their sleep. I'm kind of surprised that the restriction isn't to L2, honestly.

 

[cydermaster]

I can't believe how badly this has been implemented. This elite forum could have been set up using another url or on a subdomain of trf. The way it stands I log on to be confronted by a forum with a racist access criteria reminding me how little freedom of speech there really is in this world.

At least one of the mods is not American and therefore not allowed to gain the knowledge of what's behind the virtual electrified fence. That workload to make sure no 'kosha/hal-hal' mods have any access to this data would have been saved by having this forum as a separate entity from trf.

I fully understand the problems you have with the oppressive regimes having your proverbial 'sacks in their grip' (I'm not saying us Brits or any other country are any better), I just think this could have been implemented in a much more tactful and technically less complicated manner. I appreciate that trf is a VERY american-centric forum, but lets keep rocketry inviting for internationals!

 

[edwinshap1]

I can't believe how badly this has been implemented. This elite forum could have been set up using another url or on a subdomain of trf. The way it stands I log on to be confronted by a forum with a racist access criteria reminding me how little freedom of speech there really is in this world.

At least one of the mods is not American and therefore not allowed to gain the knowledge of what's behind the virtual electrified fence. That workload to make sure no 'kosha/hal-hal' mods have any access to this data would have been saved by having this forum as a separate entity from trf.

I fully understand the problems you have with the oppressive regimes having your proverbial 'sacks in their grip' (I'm not saying us Brits or any other country are any better), I just think this could have been implemented in a much more tactful and technically less complicated manner. I appreciate that trf is a VERY american-centric forum, but lets keep rocketry inviting for internationals!

its just an ex motor forum, im sure there are plenty of british ones...im gonna guess most TRFers aren't authorized to read the threads, but its not that big of a deal lol

 

[jsdemar]

I can't believe how badly this has been implemented. This elite forum could have been set up using another url or on a subdomain of trf. The way it stands I log on to be confronted by a forum with a racist access criteria reminding me how little freedom of speech there really is in this world.

At least one of the mods is not American and therefore not allowed to gain the knowledge of what's behind the virtual electrified fence. That workload to make sure no 'kosha/hal-hal' mods have any access to this data would have been saved by having this forum as a separate entity from trf.

I fully understand the problems you have with the oppressive regimes having your proverbial 'sacks in their grip' (I'm not saying us Brits or any other country are any better), I just think this could have been implemented in a much more tactful and technically less complicated manner. I appreciate that trf is a VERY american-centric forum, but lets keep rocketry inviting for internationals!

Boo hoo.

 

[Mikus]

i still have my fingers thank gooooodnes...

For now. :rofl:

 

[Peartree]

I can't believe how badly this has been implemented. This elite forum could have been set up using another url or on a subdomain of trf. The way it stands I log on to be confronted by a forum with a racist access criteria reminding me how little freedom of speech there really is in this world.

At least one of the mods is not American and therefore not allowed to gain the knowledge of what's behind the virtual electrified fence. That workload to make sure no 'kosha/hal-hal' mods have any access to this data would have been saved by having this forum as a separate entity from trf.

I fully understand the problems you have with the oppressive regimes having your proverbial 'sacks in their grip' (I'm not saying us Brits or any other country are any better), I just think this could have been implemented in a much more tactful and technically less complicated manner. I appreciate that trf is a VERY american-centric forum, but lets keep rocketry inviting for internationals!

IF there is sufficient interest and IF there are qualified persons willing to moderate and IF you can comply with the laws of your home nations, I would guess that Troj would be more than happy to establish an international forum (here on TRF) to discuss these subjects exclusive of Americans.

TRF tends to be Ameri-centric largely because most of the members live there. Please feel free to invite your friends to shift that demographic. Personally I miss all the Aussies and Kiwis that used to be on TRF 1.0 and who never seemed to come back to TRF 2.0. To the best of my knowledge most (or all) of them shifted to an Aussie forum. I wish them all well but I think TRF is a better place with more international participation and I would welcome them (or anyone) to come back. Again, if there was sufficient interest, I'm sure Troj would be happy to set up a forum within TRF for Aussies, or Brits, or Germans, or Canadians or whomever.

 

[cydermaster]

Boo hoo.

Thank you for that highly articulate reply.

 

[spacecadet]

That wasn't the point of my post, I am sorry it came across wrong. It was just an acknowledgment of your statement that the English made rockets for a while and you wouldn't be learning from us. It was the first historical reference that came to mind. It wasn't a dig.

Fair enough.

 

[spacecadet]

Your quaint collection of antiquated islands

Not fair enough. We could trade insults all day, I dare say.


Some people may find the tone of your message, and the content of your signature, to be political in nature and a violation of the forum's guidelines.

See above. Touché. (That's French, btw, not American, although I understand there are a few people in a country quite near your who speak it.)

 

[troj]

IF there is sufficient interest and IF there are qualified persons willing to moderate and IF you can comply with the laws of your home nations, I would guess that Troj would be more than happy to establish an international forum (here on TRF) to discuss these subjects exclusive of Americans.

Unfortunately, due to regulations, I cannot offer such a service. At least not on a server under my control, or hosted in the US.

What I can do is offer technical assistance. But the site would have to be under the control of someone outside the US.

It's the regulations I'm stuck with.

-Kevin

 

[InFlight]

Unfortunately, due to regulations, I cannot offer such a service. At least not on a server under my control, or hosted in the US.

What I can do is offer technical assistance. But the site would have to be under the control of someone outside the US.

It's the regulations I'm stuck with.

-Kevin

Sounds like fun, but I would not take the risk with any of this on a public forum. Especially if you have to micro manage it. One mistake and you're done.

Your life, you go to jail, who takes care of your family? not this forum I can tell you that.

Not worth it man.

.

 

[bill2654]

I think Kevin is smart for restricting access. The internet is full of free info so just go look it up else where. Too many winers here anyway.