Make sure you read the fine print about availablity and ship times for motors

I just wanted to post a friendly reminder to all of you to make sure you read the fine print and fully understand the lead and shipping times for motors.

I made an order last Monday with a vendor who will go unnamed. I went with this vendor because they had the best prices for the motors I wanted. I failed to read all of the fine print and didn't realize that they don't actually have the motors I wanted in stock. So the shop ordered them on Monday and it took until Friday for them to receive them. They shipped the motors to me on Friday, but my package won't get here until Saturday which unfortunately is the day I wanted to use them.

I was penny wise and pound foolish. Luckily I found out that the local dealer won't be attending this launch but will be in the area on Friday so I get to buy at least a portion of my order twice. See how much I saved? :eyeroll:

I've learned that one the hard way too. Now I only order places that verify stock, or call the order in

That one bit me recently (combination order of motors and a kit). What bothered me is how uncommunicative the person was regarding order status and ETA... canceled and went to another vendor (Wildman)

Reminds me of an order to another dealer (pretty big one) , who does operate as though they have everything in stock.

A week had gone by since I had ordered via the website. I realized there had been no e-mail confirmation.

I sent an e-mail. They replied that they did not have all the motors. They had the 1/2A motors, but were out of A3-4T's, and only had one G12 reload pack (had ordered three packs).

So, they were waiting for more A3-4T's to come in from Estes, and for a shipment of motors from Aerotech. When would the order from Aerotech get to them? They had no clue.

So in theory this order could have taken many weeks.

It really "Ticked" me off that they just sat on the order without telling me they were waiting and not asking me if I wanted to wait.

I told them to ship what they had, and cancel the rest, I'd get it elsewhere. And did. I got the A3-4T's from Belleville Wholesale Hobbies, should have gone to them to begin with for the Estes motors.

They caused a project to miss its intended launch date (needed the G12 reload pack), by waiting over a week doing nothing before I contacted them.

They are no longer at the top of my list of dealers to buy from.

- George Gassaway

Many rocketry vendors are just part time operations. If I need any rocketry item in a hurry I always contact the vendor to assure they have it in stock and can ship quickly.

I've personally been to the Aerotech facility and they don't have a big warehouse full of stock ready to ship.

I don't know who you ordered from, but I would suggest it could not have been Balsa Machining.

I "pre-order" from Balsa Machining for all of my motor needs and save a lot doing it. It just takes a little forward planning to have the right motors ordered early enough to have them in by the time I need them. There's no fine print involved--just the nature of the deal. It doesn't bother me a bit that the motors I am pre-ordering aren't actually in stock. And, the longest I've waited for motors, which was just before LDRS, was under 2 months. But, I still save 25% off retail by ordering this way. Never had anything late--nothing but superb service from Balsa Machining, highly recommended. Their webpage says:

"Click the boxes in blue under the heading "pre-order" to order items at a significant discount for shipment at a later date. The discount for items ordered this way is currently 25% for propellant and 20% for Hardware and non-propellant items. This shipment date will be mid April. The last day to order for this pre-order cycle is the last day of March."

Viperfixr said:

I don't know who you ordered from, but I would suggest it could not have been Balsa Machining.

I "pre-order" from Balsa Machining for all of my motor needs and save a lot doing it. It just takes a little forward planning to have the right motors ordered early enough to have them in by the time I need them. There's no fine print involved--just the nature of the deal. It doesn't bother me a bit that the motors I am pre-ordering aren't actually in stock. And, the longest I've waited for motors, which was just before LDRS, was under 2 months. But, I still save 25% off retail by ordering this way. Never had anything late--nothing but superb service from Balsa Machining, highly recommended. Their webpage says:

"Click the boxes in blue under the heading "pre-order" to order items at a significant discount for shipment at a later date. The discount for items ordered this way is currently 25% for propellant and 20% for Hardware and non-propellant items. This shipment date will be mid April. The last day to order for this pre-order cycle is the last day of March."

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Sounds very reasonable. I am expecting that after you place your order you get an e mail confirming your purchase AND the dates of delivery? A lot of thing like this, or even actual mistakes like "we thought it WAS in stock, oops now we find it isn't" are tolerable (up to a point, anyway) if they are promptly acknowledged up front when the purchase is confirmed. From the description of the first poster, the company appeared to have no intention of acknowledging the problem and doing what they could to rectify it. I am curious what percentage of business is returning customers? Seems like a good way to have one time customers, at best.

Fortunately, my club has an excellent onsite vendor who stocks pretty much everything Aerotech and a goodly supply of CTI. Associated hardware, kits, kevlar, and other rocketry necessities.

Buying from your onsite vendor keeps him in coming to your launches and saves you the HazMat charges. Just saying.

The vendor I ordered from is a well known brick and mortar shop. If you didn't read the shipping notices you'd never know that they didn't have everything in stock.

The local vendor doesn't attend the nearby LPR/MPR launch and couldn't sell there if he did, but I called and found out he does visit the area every Friday. Now I know and I'll purchase all I can from him from now on.

Luckily I have never been in the OP's situation. I have gotten into the habit of ordering all my motors well in advance.

I only launch with two local clubs. One of which has vendors. I used to buy my motors exclusively from the onsite vendors.
Then, about a year and a half ago, I went through several months of attending launches "hoping" to buy motors from the onsite vendor... nope never had more than a tiny portion of what I wanted... seemed he only stocked higher power motors with any consistency. I like launching low and mid power with my little nephew... so something had to change. I now buy my Estes BP from https://www.acsupplyco.com . Always at least 40% list on Estes products, free shipping over $100 and no sales tax (hazmat still applies on E and above motors). Twice a year or so, I put an order in through Quest for their 40% off sales. I buy my 18mm RMS reloads directly from Aerotech's store for $9.99/3-pack (they cost more from Valuerockets.com).. nobody else seems to carry them anymore... Hobbylinc.com & redarrowhobbies.com get the majority of my hobby line RMS orders...

I still tried to buy motors from the on site guy over the past year... same... not much...

Oh.. that vendor... seems he's calling it quits now... no surprise here...

I really never intended to buy so much online... but I had no choice... I save a ton using my preferred online vendors... and I spend even more than before!

There is still another vendor out there that has been stepping it up. I always try to buy kit or two from them.


Jerome

GeorgeGassaway, your PM inbox is full. I'm wondering if we're talking about the same vendor here.

JeromeK99 said:

I now buy my Estes BP from https://www.acsupplyco.com . Always at least 40% list on Estes products, free shipping over $100 and no sales tax (hazmat still applies on E and above motors).

Jerome

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Upfront prices for acsupplyco.com beat HobbyLinc by about a buck a 3 pack. Hobbylinc however ships everything USPS (including HAZMAT) without additional fee
https://www.hobbylinc.com/frequently_asked_questions
as opposed to ACS Supply which ships "E" and up UPS and charges $27.50 HAZMAT fee.
https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/engines.htm
I've had pretty good luck with HobbyLinc, shipping costs seem reasonable and they are pretty fast.
Both HobbyLinc and ACS Supply only go up to "G" engines, at least as of checking today.
so if all you are getting is engines and you are staying "F" and under, at least price wise you may be better off with ACS Supply.

Zeroignite said:

GeorgeGassaway, your PM inbox is full. I'm wondering if we're talking about the same vendor here.

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After clearing space in my PM box, and reading your PM, yes, same one (I went into more detail in my PM reply).

I'd rather not identify here publicly who the vendor was. If anyone asks "was it Vendor X", or "Vendor Y", or any vendor, I won't be playing that game.

Pretty much the lesson learned was that if you do not get a response withing a day, contact any dealer for confirmation.

But also, it was bad business practice to just sit on an order until they got everything in stock.... without letting me know first.

- George Gassaway

georgegassaway said:

After clearing space in my PM box, and reading your PM, yes, same one (I went into more detail in my PM reply).

I'd rather not identify here publicly who the vendor was. If anyone asks "was it Vendor X", or "Vendor Y", or any vendor, I won't be playing that game.

Pretty much the lesson learned was that if you do not get a response withing a day, contact any dealer for confirmation.

But also, it was bad business practice to just sit on an order until they got everything in stock.... without letting me know first.

- George Gassaway

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Why harbor the vendors who are not serving as they advertise? Do you have some vested interest in this vendor? Maybe letting the public know who's not getting the job done will force them to change their ways and step up? Maybe?

I considered starting a thread in the vendor forums, pasting the email exchange directly. However, the forum rules there seem to indicate bringing out grievances with a particular vendor is frowned upon...

dont wait until 1 week before a launch to order motors

mail could still get them to you in time , my past few packages have been coming faster than tracking said they would lol , maybe usps needs to update there computers lol service seems faster


the good news no money lost even if double order you can still burn em


We are lucky to have a great onsite vendor who is well stocked in AT and CTI 24/29/38mm if 54mm CTI is needed that he doesn't have he is happy to order with no isk upfront , for instance a month ago I ordered 2 K's for May launch

g zilla said:

dont wait until 1 week before a launch to order motors

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How about 2.5 weeks?

Which is plenty of time unless a vendor chooses to sit on an order until everything is in stock before sending anything.

And most importantly, not telling the customer about it so the customer can decide what to do.

Ultimately, I found out that it was likely that the vendor in question night not have had it in stock, for SIX WEEKS, or more, after I had originally ordered it. They get one shipment of Aerotech stuff a month. The person I talked to had no clue if the monthly shipment would include any G12's, the owner was away. Sounded likely that that month's shipment would not, meaning none until their next monthly shipment!). Actually, they had one pack, but were holding up my order for two more packs , plus some Estes motors they were out of stock of.

Ironically, when they finally sent what they did have in stock (after I told them to send what they had and cancel the rest), including that one pack I needed for a specific launch....... it arrived the Monday after that launch. One less day in that chain of events and it would have arrived in time, on the previous Friday.

The real issue was not ordering several MONTHS in advance so that a vendor can take however long until they have it all in stock, then send it.

The issue is a vendor sitting on an order without any communication whatsoever about the delay, which could have taken them many weeks, and possibly months, to finally ship.

- George Gassaway

georgegassaway said:

How about 2.5 weeks?

Which is plenty of time unless a vendor chooses to sit on an order until everything is in stock before sending anything.

And most importantly, not telling the customer about it so the customer can decide what to do.

Ultimately, I found out that it was likely that the vendor in question night not have had it in stock, for SIX WEEKS, or more, after I had originally ordered it. They get one shipment of Aerotech stuff a month. The person I talked to had no clue if the monthly shipment would include any G12's, the owner was away. Sounded likely that that month's shipment would not, meaning none until their next monthly shipment!). Actually, they had one pack, but were holding up my order for two more packs , plus some Estes motors they were out of stock of.

Ironically, when they finally sent what they did have in stock (after I told them to send what they had and cancel the rest), including that one pack I needed for a specific launch....... it arrived the Monday after that launch. One less day in that chain of events and it would have arrived in time, on the previous Friday.

The real issue was not ordering several MONTHS in advance so that a vendor can take however long until they have it all in stock, then send it.

It is a vendor sitting on an order without any communication whatsoever about the delay, which could have taken them many weeks, and possibly months, to finally ship.

- George Gassaway

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I sure am glad we don't know who it is, I'd sure hate to miss out on getting screwed over too.:eyeroll:

georgegassaway said:

But also, it was bad business practice to just sit on an order until they got everything in stock.... without letting me know first.

- George Gassaway

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As time goes by, that seems more and more to be the norm. Unfortunate, but true.
Daniel

I have some LPR motors on order from a brick and mortar vendor that also has an online store. Put the order in Sunday night, paid with Paypal. Order status is still 'Payment Received'. My money hard at work doing nothing. I'm going to call them tomorrow to find out what's up, but two days and you haven't touched my order? Doesn't bode well for them having me as a repeat customer...

Well in the other direction, Wildman lists stock, and sirius has never done me wrong. Between them I've never been left wanting for AP.

chadrog said:

I sure am glad we don't know who it is, I'd sure hate to miss out on getting screwed over too.:eyeroll:

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Well, if I said who, does that mean you'd never bother to ask any other dealer about the status of your order when you heard nothing?

Or learn from this to be proactive about finding out the status of your order, as Matt Laudato is going to do?

- George Gassaway

georgegassaway said:

Well, if I said who, does that mean you'd never bother to ask any other dealer about the status of your order when you heard nothing?

Or learn from this to be proactive about finding out the status of your order, as Matt Laudato is going to do?

- George Gassaway

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Letting the public know might get the vendor to change their ways, as I said in post 14. It has more to do with them than us, what part of that do you not understand?

I will post the response from the vendor later today after I speak with them. You always need to be proactive - I too am on a deadline, hoping to get the motors by next Friday in time for a 3/22 launch.

OK, I'll post unedited email transcript into a new thread for the Vendors subforum. Posting the raw transcript is fair, right? S'the objective truth, after all.

I was unable to reach the vendor by phone (busy 5x, then hold, then 'sorry no one can take your call'), so I sent them an email. No email response, but I did see the order status change to 'In-Progress'. That is encouraging.

chadrog said:

Letting the public know might get the vendor to change their ways, as I said in post 14. It has more to do with them than us, what part of that do you not understand?

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I had a very bad, and very similar experience with Red Arrow Hobbies around Xmas a few months ago. I'd ordered a kit and some motors. After not hearing from them for a couple of weeks I sent an email and found out the motors were on back order. They weren't going to tell me, just wait and ship it all when the motors eventually showed up - and who knows how long that would take?

The owner refused to send me just the kit now and the motors later, so I cancelled my order completely.

I will also not order anything from Red Arrow Hobbies again in the future.

I received a personal email response from the vendor explaining the delay and assuring me that my order will ship tomorrow. They hit a snag but came through with a good follow up. On the fence about identifying the vendor...

So here's an update. My order wound up showing up on Friday. I had deleted the email with the tracking number off my phone so I didn't know it was delivered until I got home. I wound up buying a couple motors for the launch from the local AT dealer, one E15 that refused to light after three tries and an F52 that ripped my Leviathan off the pad with authority. We also burned all of the Estes motors I bought for the launch.

From now on I'll buy Estes at Hobby Lobby and AT from the local dealer now that I know where to find him. :wink: