Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?

[DAllen]

This thread: DOOM AND GLOOM. Good grief there are a lot of doom and gloomers on this site.

People...the prices of EVERYTHING is going up. The solution is simple: If you can't afford it fly smaller. Also, if cost is the thing keeping you out of the hobby then yes, it's probably time to step away and reassess your goals and priorities. Maybe even reassess your goals and priorities in life in general. I'm still in the hobby because of the people, the fun of construction, mentoring young 'uns, etc.

 

[cwbullet]

Estes motors are the most common motor used at our club. 24mm and 29mm composites are next. We see some 38 and 54, which is higher at our TRA launches. Not unexpected based on cost, and I expect it will get worse.

Then again, I will continue to fly. I may eat out less and cut other corners to afford more motors.

It always amazed me that people would cut spending on their kids or clothing to buy cigarettes and booze but would not do the same for other things. We need to make priorities and cut on other things, and we can still fly rockets.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

If we priced rocket motors in terms of "eggs" instead of dollars, it would be interesting to see how prices have changed. How many eggs does a J motor costs today?

 

[cwbullet]

If we priced rocket motors in terms of "eggs" instead of dollars, it would be interesting to see how prices have changed. How many eggs does a J motor costs today?

The average price per egg is about 50 cents, so that would be about 200 eggs per J.

 

[neil_w]

Wait, does this mean we're all going to have to start raising chickens if we want to do HPR?

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

Wait, does this mean we're all going to have to start raising chickens if we want to do HPR?

Yep! Motors manufacturers soon may only take eggs as tender. We need to prepare.

 

[neil_w]

Man, this hobby really *is* in trouble.

 

[cwbullet]

Yep! Motors manufacturers soon may only take eggs as tender. We need to prepare.

Hmm, I can make a killing. There are at least 1000 chicken houses locally that raise chickens for meat or eggs.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Challenges create opportunities for innovation. If the cost of composite motors is being driven by APCP, then maybe a manufacturer will release a line of certified composite motors using AN as the oxidizer. Or perhaps a line of commercially manufactured certified sugar motors.

 

[Theory]

Going to try and pull this back to something resembling the title of the tread.

What it comes down to is flying. If you want to fly, and that is really something you want to do, you will. "What" you fly may change, however, you will fly. Personally I get a ton of enjoyment out of flying, doesn't matter if is a 'G' or a 'K.' Again,, personally, $100 - $150 is about what I can comfortably spend on a motor. Sure I would love a $120 'L' however, as those don' exist, I'll fly a 'J' or "K' that I bought on sale somewhere. One of those flights per month is ok for me. Then there's the EX side that I am definitely getting into. Will it save money, maybe, time will tell...

So, YES, HPR can withstand the $100 J motor!

 

[Rob Campbell]

Yep! Motors manufacturers soon may only take eggs as tender. We need to prepare.

How many M motors can you get for two Taylor Swift tickets?

 

[neil_w]

How many M motors can you get for two Taylor Swift tickets?

All of them.

 

[Banzai88]

Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?​

Yes, most likely.

Grow or continue to be somewhat self-sustaining? That's a whole other issue.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?​

Yes, most likely.

Grow or continue to be somewhat self-sustaining? That's a whole other issue.

Tripoli hit 5000 members when I was president. Since then it has gained another 2000 members. NAR is even larger and has grown similarly. The hobby has definitely been growing.

 

[rfjustin]

"Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?"

100% yes for a variety of reasons.

1. Hobbies are almost always funded by Discretionary Income, and the amount of DI varies from person to person. Personally there are hobbies that I simply cannot afford and that's ok. I've always wanted a high(er) end car but choose not to spend my hard earned money on that. I'd rather drive a more modest vehicle and in return have more money to burn on reloads, firearms, and ammo.

2. The aerospace industry is growing leaps and bounds, so that will increase interests in rocketry in general. I imagine YouTube channels like Dude Perfect show casing HPR/Rocket Battles will draw additional interest.

3. Big increases in the last 5-7 years on the number of collegiate and high school teams participating. Most will drop off after school ends, but some will stay in the hobby for decades.

Bottom line, if you can't afford it, don't put yourself in debt just to participate. Lots of folks are comfortable carrying large amounts of credit card debt, I've never been a fan.

Onward and upward...

 

[Ez2cDave]

Another thing to consider is that, if demand for motors decreases, volume of production will, most likely, also decrease.

Dave F.

 

[Bill S]

It always amazed me that people would cut spending on their kids or clothing to buy cigarettes and booze but would not do the same for other things. We need to make priorities and cut on other things, and we can still fly rockets.

My sister used to be an kindergarten teacher in a rural area in NC. She was constantly amazed and dismayed how poorly many of the kids who she taught were dressed - many didn't have underwear or socks, and hadn't been fed breakfast, but boy howdy their parentf had nice clothes and bling.

Most people have plenty of fat in their budget that can be trimmed if they really feel the desire to fund their entertainment/hobbies if they really want to. Starbucks/Dunkin every day is pricey vs making your own coffee. Cellphone budget can be trimmed (I use T-Mobile, and pay $17.55 a month (unlimited call, text, and 2.5gb data) vs $30-75 a month PER phone, etc. Don't need to eat out several times a week, etc.

 

[UPscaler]

$100 is a problem? Um... come join me in the land of Astrophotography! Now THAT is an endless pit to throw cash into. I have more $ into my telescope than most of my neighbors paid for their Audis...

$100 IS a problem for some folks that just want to fly rockets. You reminding them that you have more money than them isn't exactly beneficial to anyone lol.
Happy for you, but as a European car enthusiast, I'd take the Audis.

Braden

 

[ksaves2]

The first time I heard that was nearly 20 years ago and it was @ksaves2. I've only heard it a few times ever since.
As I understand it, the reasoning is that L2 is the first certification level that requires learning the safety rules (including some regulations) and has a test to document that knowledge. We don't test at the L1 level, probably to dangle the hook.

Yep, I was ticked off at the time that one had to be an L2 to fly at a Research launch period. I was an L1 at the time and wanted to be able to fly certified motors at a Research launch. Rules of the time said I couldn't so that limited the launches I could attend. With the fickle weather of the Midwest, that was a concern it would cut my ability to fly. Fortunately the rules were later changed but I made my L2 by that time. Shoot, I attended a two day private mixing class at the Prefect's shop just after I got my L1. They needed my tuition money so they could pay the instructor to make it worth his while to come down and teach the class. I made a lot of motors before I achieved L2. I just didn't fly any of them until I certified L2. Shoot, when I took the class, I got 54mm Loki hardware and L motor grains out of it. Best $200.00 I ever spent in a weekend. Kurt

 

[firemanup]

Literally, this was my first motor > a C motor; 1990, Hobbytown USA, Aurora, IL

Of course my Aerotech Mustang's first flight was on that G80 as well.....I had no idea how high "3300 feet" was but at the time, it was literally like a drug that changed my entire life.

"Where'd he go?!?!?" ...... "Where'd whooooooooo goooooooo????" Mustangs on G80s

 

[KenECoyote]

Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?

• Did Starbucks survive $5+ coffee?
• Did bottled water survive when people were shocked at paying for something they get free from the tap?
• Did designer jeans & clothes survive?

People want what they want and the more people want things, the higher the price can go (Ebay seller here).

Supply shortages, materials cost inflation, wage increases, factory work disruption from covid, government giving out "Covid Relief" money, are all creating a perfect storm imo. I think it could be much worse.

 

[ep29030]

This thread: DOOM AND GLOOM. Good grief there are a lot of doom and gloomers on this site.

People...the prices of EVERYTHING is going up. The solution is simple: If you can't afford it fly smaller. Also, if cost is the thing keeping you out of the hobby then yes, it's probably time to step away and reassess your goals and priorities. Maybe even reassess your goals and priorities in life in general. I'm still in the hobby because of the people, the fun of construction, mentoring young 'uns, etc.

Re-discover MMX and cardstock rocketry. I have lots of HPR kits and electronics, and I'm currently making a couple of kits from a piece of BT-5 tubing, cereal box cardboard and a BT-5 nosecone. I'm doing a Black Brandt and a micro-Der Red Max. Print the skins and roll them on the tubing. Clear coat to seal it. Simple to do, and I have about $2.50 in the rocket. Mine will fly on mini-motors. Have plans to make downscaled MMX Gooneybirds to go with my full scale ones.

 

[jderimig]

Challenges create opportunities for innovation. If the cost of composite motors is being driven by APCP, then maybe a manufacturer will release a line of certified composite motors using AN as the oxidizer. Or perhaps a line of commercially manufactured certified sugar motors.

We need those Don Carter motors stat!

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

I looked and relative to egg prices, a $100 J motor is about right, and higher than where we are now. In 2021 the average price of eggs per dozen was $.93 and in 2021 it was $1.67. A J motor was about $50 back then, so it is close. Eggs in 2023 are also higher than 2021 by a lot.

Rocket motor prices have been fairly stable for years with respect to inflation and even dropped for awhile. I think people are upset because prices increased in jumps rather than smoothly per year.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/egg-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

 

[DMehalko]

Ya hopefully things at least level out for a bit, and we can get used to the new price normals, i do hate buying motors and realizing it was way cheaper just a year before.

 

[T-Rex]

Yep, I'll fly what I can afford. Given that it is rare for me to get to fly more than 3 times a year, if I put back $5-$10 a pay day, I'll have enough to support my habit.
I was planning to burn $$ on Black weekend, but held back. Maybe that was the wrong thing to do. Oh well, too bad for me.
A business operating at a loss folds eventually. AT has to charge what they have to charge to stay in business. Though my contribution is fairly insignificant, I will continue to support AT as best I can.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Yeah! You know what? I say @AeroTech should raise the prices higher! With all the labor Gary has to do on this forum I think he should make a list. Start sending invoices to people. Charging them for every thread about how their hobby rocket motors have gone up 10 dollars in the last 35 years. Listen @AeroTech, call me crazy but I think your workers should be able to afford the costs of living!

Vern Estes & John Langford are smiling . . .

The "cost of living" is a double-edged sword . . . When prices increase, a Consumer's "net income" decreases ( less buying power ) . . . If you increase wages to offset the decrease, the cost to suppliers of raw materials, manufacturers, distributors, & dealers also increases . . . As a result, they increase prices . . . This is a "vicious cycle", with no end in sight.

Dave F.

 

[Pete.D]

"Where'd he go?!?!?" ...... "Where'd whooooooooo goooooooo????" Mustangs on G80s

My first medium power rocket was a Mustang. It flew great on E15s and E30s, but I lost it the first time I tried a G80.

 

[KenECoyote]

I looked and relative to egg prices, a $100 J motor is about right, and higher than where we are now. In 2021 the average price of eggs per dozen was $.93 and in 2021 it was $1.67. A J motor was about $50 back then, so it is close. Eggs in 2023 are also higher than 2021 by a lot.

Rocket motor prices have been fairly stable for years with respect to inflation and even dropped for awhile. I think people are upset because prices increased in jumps rather than smoothly per year.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/egg-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

 

[cwbullet]

My sister used to be an kindergarten teacher in a rural area in NC. She was constantly amazed and dismayed how poorly many of the kids who she taught were dressed - many didn't have underwear or socks, and hadn't been fed breakfast, but boy howdy their parentf had nice clothes and bling.

Most people have plenty of fat in their budget that can be trimmed if they really feel the desire to fund their entertainment/hobbies if they really want to. Starbucks/Dunkin every day is pricey vs making your own coffee. Cellphone budget can be trimmed (I use T-Mobile, and pay $17.55 a month (unlimited call, text, and 2.5gb data) vs $30-75 a month PER phone, etc. Don't need to eat out several times a week, etc.

I guess I could try Mint Moble. 15 a month sounds cheap.