AeroTech Open Thread

[crossfire]

I think if AT dosen't install thrust ring there going to be issues with flyers not installing one when needed, useing the wrong expoy. It dosen't take a lot of work to remove the AT installed thrust ring if needed. Why go back 25 years ago when motors had no thrust rings?

 

[Cameron Anderson]

I think if AT dosen't install thrust ring there going to be issues with flyers not installing one when needed, useing the wrong expoy. It dosen't take a lot of work to remove the AT installed thrust ring if needed. Why go back 25 years ago when motors had no thrust rings?

I've never tried, what's the best way to remove a thrust ring? I like thrust rings, but in this case not having one would be beneficial for me.

 

[crossfire]

A Dremal tool. It might take 5 minutes

 

[crossfire]

I've never tried, what's the best way to remove a thrust ring? I like thrust rings, but in this case not having one would be beneficial for me.

A Dremal tool. It might take 5 minutes

I wouldn't not want a DMS with out a thrust ring AT installed. I think the DMS line of motors is great addition to the line up. Gary don't remove factory installed thrust rings.

 

[jimzcatz]

Thrust ring? Seriously? U don't need no fancy glued on ring. Been using masking tape for 30 years

 

[crossfire]

Thrust ring? Seriously? U don't need no fancy glued on ring. Been using masking tape for 30 years

You dont need air in car either. Just roll windows down.

 

[jimzcatz]

My point is Aerotech should not be required to supply a thrust ring. Just another failure point unless it's molded into the case.

 

[rharshberger]

A Dremal tool. It might take 5 minutes

And the last thing I need to do is nick the case removing the thrust ring and potentially damage the structural integrity of a filament would casing.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Gary I don't want to sound rude when I say this, but how many units of this motor do you forecast selling per quarter ? I would be on board for maybe 3 a year with no thrust ring . They make 1/2 inch masking tape everyday , and if the flyer has a rocket suitable for the motor , they should be able to install a tape thrust ring.

 

[Charles_McG]

For those of you thinking of a 17sec sustainer burn, how do you keep it vertical? The longer the burn I’ve tried, the more gravity turn I get.

 

[ChicagoDave]

+1 for the thrust ring - if for nothing else than to keep people from asking the questions on how to create a thrust ring. (Although for such a special motor you would hope the user is already advanced enough to know how to at least use tape...)

~Dave~

 

[crossfire]

I just think that the DMS line of motors are much safer with a thrust ring especially for the new person in the hobby. One can still do a masking tap thrust ring along with the glued on ring if you want to. Done

 

[Rocket501]

I am personally in favor of having no thrust ring or one included but not attached. I don’t ever see myself using one and I find it much easier to epoxy something into place than trying to remove a thrust rig already attached.

For standard motors a thrust ring makes sense, but the H13 is specialized and for most possible uses, will benefit from lacking the ring IMHO. Also, it is really easy to wrap one out of tape.

I look forward to hearing the price, but what matters more to me is whether or not it will be available in California.

Edit: Have you ever considered selling that K76 hamster dance motor? I think one could make quite a few fun designs with it. If the temps are too hot, would it be possible to get a few details? The diagram I have a copy of is rather hard to read the text.

 

[AeroTech]

That’s exactly what we’re concerned about. In the past when we shipped separate thrust rings for the customers to bond onto the motors, there were problems.

I think if AT dosen't install thrust ring there going to be issues with flyers not installing one when needed, useing the wrong expoy. It dosen't take a lot of work to remove the AT installed thrust ring if needed. Why go back 25 years ago when motors had no thrust rings?

 

[Walter Longburn]

K56

What's the burn time on that?

 

[AeroTech]

If the H13ST is sold without a thrust ring I think we will recommend that you use a tape thrust ring if you need it. Reason being that a key component of the 3D printed thrust ring is designed to be embedded into the nozzle epoxy at the time the nozzle is installed into the casing. The thrust ring cannot be installed as securely post-assembly.

All AeroTech and Quest motors except N and larger are submitted for California approval after NAR or Tripoli certification.

Yes, the K76WN motor has been submitted for certification. I don’t think it will be too hot.

I am personally in favor of having no thrust ring or one included but not attached. I don’t ever see myself using one and I find it much easier to epoxy something into place than trying to remove a thrust rig already attached.

For standard motors a thrust ring makes sense, but the H13 is specialized and for most possible uses, will benefit from lacking the ring IMHO. Also, it is really easy to wrap one out of tape.

I look forward to hearing the price, but what matters more to me is whether or not it will be available in California.

Edit: Have you ever considered selling that K56 hamster dance motor? I think one could make quite a few fun designs with it. If the temps are too hot, would it be possible to get a few details? The diagram I have a copy of is rather hard to read the text.

 

[AeroTech]

It’s a K76WN and it’s 20 seconds.

What's the burn time on that?

 

[AeroTech]

Here’s a flight I made with one to over 13,000 feet.

For those of you thinking of a 17sec sustainer burn, how do you keep it vertical? The longer the burn I’ve tried, the more gravity turn I get.

 

[Walter Longburn]

It’s a K76WN and it’s 20 seconds.

Is it DMS? What are the dimensions?

 

[AeroTech]

Probably no more than a couple hundred per year. I guess it is possible to sell two versions.

If you’re using this for an upper stage you are going to friction fit or use some other means, with no thrust ring at all so the aft end of the motor will fit into the booster tube, right?

Gary I don't want to sound rude when I say this, but how many units of this motor do you forecast selling per quarter ? I would be on board for maybe 3 a year with no thrust ring . They make 1/2 inch masking tape everyday , and if the flyer has a rocket suitable for the motor , they should be able to install a tape thrust ring.

 

[AeroTech]

Yes, 54mm x 14” approx.

Is it DMS? What are the dimensions?

 

[Cameron Anderson]

Probably no more than a couple hundred per year. I guess it is possible to sell two versions.

If you’re using this for an upper stage you are going to friction fit or use some other means, with no thrust ring at all so the aft end of the motor will fit into the booster tube, right?

I epoxy nuts into empty charge wells and then use a bolt through a bulkplate in the airframe for motor retention (done it a lot). For a thrust ring replacement, I plan to use a reinforced coupler glued into the airframe to act as a stop for the motor thrusting forward, then I could use the sustainer motor itself to as a coupler into the booster.

 

[beeblebrox]

Thrust ring? Seriously? U don't need no fancy glued on ring. Been using masking tape for 30 years

I've been using masking tape for a half century...lol We don't need no steeeeenking thrust rings. I also discovered that motors don't stack in your range box as well when they have thrust rings attached...

 

[crossfire]

I've been using masking tape for a half century...lol We don't need no steeeeenking thrust rings. I also discovered that motors don't stack in your range box as well when they have thrust rings attached...

With a masking tape thrust ring do you guys trim tape so a screw on type motor retainer can be used? I suppose you guys don't want RMS rear closure to have a thrust ring in its design.

 

[rharshberger]

With a masking tape thrust ring do you guys trim tape so a screw on type motor retainer can be used? I suppose you guys don't want RMS rear closure to have a thrust ring in its design.

I have a RMS rear closure thats turned down flush, yes its not certified but it has special applications. If needed I do make tape thrustrings or attach ones if included as needed.

 

[afadeev]

Good news...we just tested another redesigned (thicker liner, thinner case) 29mm H13ST and the average case temperature was about 270 deg. F using a standard testing protocol. This means that redesigned G8 and G12 motors should be acceptable as well. We are submitting the redesigned H13 and some additional motors for TMT certification soon.
[...]Great news! The 29mm end burning H13ST-P DMS motor passed Tripoli certification

Awesome!
What's the over/under on G8 and/or G12 getting certified in time for Xmas this year as well?

Apparently they were certified with no thrust ring. [...]
How many here would prefer no thrust ring attached?

Yes for the thrust rings.
I would order a dozen or so of G8/G12/H13 motors to experiment with thrust vectoring arrangements. I need plugged motors with thrust rings for those.
For 2nd stage flights, any of the above motors will likely infringe on the <18K FAA waivers (more like <5K waivers on most fields) we fly under on the East Coast.

Further out West, I can see folks taking advantage of the 2nd stage opportunities. Than the thrust rings become superfluous.

a

 

[Neutronium95]

I'm mostly interested in the super long burn motors for doing silly sub-minmum diameter rockets with fins glued onto the casing, so I would prefer not to have a thrust ring on them.

 

[AeroTech]

Quite possible.

Awesome!
What's the over/under on G8 and/or G12 getting certified in time for Xmas this year as well?



Yes for the thrust rings.
I would order a dozen or so of G8/G12/H13 motors to experiment with thrust vectoring arrangements. I need plugged motors with thrust rings for those.
For 2nd stage flights, any of the above motors will likely infringe on the <18K FAA waivers (more like <5K waivers on most fields) we fly under on the East Coast.

Further out West, I can see folks taking advantage of the 2nd stage opportunities. Than the thrust rings become superfluous.

a

 

[AeroTech]

You can get some crazy altitude that way.

I'm mostly interested in the super long burn motors for doing silly sub-minmum diameter rockets with fins glued onto the casing, so I would prefer not to have a thrust ring on them.

 

[beeblebrox]

With a masking tape thrust ring do you guys trim tape so a screw on type motor retainer can be used? I suppose you guys don't want RMS rear closure to have a thrust ring in its design.

I don't use the screw on retainers in general. BUT, I have designed 3d printed retainers that have two different caps. One for motors with molded or glued thrust rings (Or Reloadables) and a second one with more room in it to accommodate a 3/4" tape thrust ring. The Aeropac and Estes screw on retainers don't have enough room to have a longer thrust ring. You could use 1/4" tape, but that is only good for 24mm or smaller motors, not enough grip area for larger motors. 1/2" tape is good for 29mm, but again it is a bit too long for the threaded mounts. All of which should have been designed a little longer anyway, even with the motors they are designed for they only engage half of the threads....