Vendors in decline?

[crossfire]

Shrox
May I ask about what its going to cost you a Month? We are going to need to look into it very soon.

 

[Wingarcher]

I too am a new vendor in the hobby-- started up this spring officially, actually was doing work last year for a wholesale customer. I purchased the equipment I have because I knew it would allow me to easily make parts I had in mind for my own designs. Figured it would be smart to share with everyone after I learned the ropes. The hobby tends to be very kit oriented but there are plenty out there who are interested in designing their own. As word has been slowly getting around I have had more inquiries and done more work. I wish I could be cheaper price-wise but I can't afford to give away my time. Custom work has that difficulty built in- it takes X time to make one set and just 15% of X to make another... anyone want TWO of their custom thing? It'll cost more but the per-piece price will be lower? Anyone?

I think some of the extreme discounts that are offered by some dealers are bad for the health of the vendor segment in general. This can create a price expectation that can't be met year round by vendors who support launches. Or it creates a "buy now and stash" mentality which also hurts local vendors. Sales are cool, but big discounts down to the point where the dealer is only doing around 10% profit isn't healthy.

As for activity in the hobby, the MARS club is doing great! Lots of HPR members, flights, certifications.

Nat Kinsey
UpscaleCNC

 

[gdjsky01]

Until now I have been uninsurable. Now I will have health coverage, and since my condition does directly affect my rocket wizard powers, it's probably a good thing.

Bingo something some will never understand.

 

[shrox]

Bingo something some will never understand.

Yep.

 

[cwbullet]

Yep.

Or you think you have coverage. Only time will tell.

 

[shrox]

Or you think you have coverage. Only time will tell.

I have coverage. Even have a card.

 

[cwbullet]

Good for you. Hopefully it hold up. I am a skeptic of the new bill. I think the system is going to fail. Too many providers are refusing to accept it in my area.

Enough with the political gibberish and get back to the topic.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

I think some of the extreme discounts that are offered by some dealers are bad for the health of the vendor segment in general. This can create a price expectation that can't be met year round by vendors who support launches. Or it creates a "buy now and stash" mentality which also hurts local vendors. Sales are cool, but big discounts down to the point where the dealer is only doing around 10% profit isn't healthy.
QUOTE]

Bingo! This is the problem I see as I am a vendor. It is really difficult to stay in business when everyone expects discounts. The other thing that hurts is people buying from xyz hobbies at a deep discount and not supporting that local vendor. I figure this-If you buy $500 in reloads online at 10%off, and pay shipping, you could have bought them from your local vendor at the launch at retail and paid the same amount. Better yet, you supported the local guy who is trying to help your club. The truth is that a club with a vendor has the ability to expand a lot faster than a club without one.

 

[Eric1]

Well said Chris.
I didn't have a black friday sale because I give the best of me in my products.
I offer a fair price too. I know of a vendor that sold a kit for $200.00 dollars at a Black Saturday sale, only made 5 dollars for the effort.
This hurts innovators and designers. Some simply decide why bother.
I refuse to undersale what I create because my customers deserve the best.
If they want cheap crap thrown together they can look elsewhere.

 

[shrox]

Well said Chris.
I didn't have a black friday sale because I give the best of me in my products.
I offer a fair price too. I know of a vendor that sold a kit for $200.00 dollars at a Black Saturday sale, only made 5 dollars for the effort.
This hurts innovators and designers. Some simply decide why bother.
I refuse to undersale what I create because my customers deserve the best.
If they want cheap crap thrown together they can look elsewhere.

I just want to design...

 

[shrox]

Shrox
May I ask about what its going to cost you a Month? We are going to need to look into it very soon.

PM sent.

 

[thobin]

Well said Chris.
I didn't have a black friday sale because I give the best of me in my products.
I offer a fair price too. I know of a vendor that sold a kit for $200.00 dollars at a Black Saturday sale, only made 5 dollars for the effort.
This hurts innovators and designers. Some simply decide why bother.
I refuse to undersale what I create because my customers deserve the best.
If they want cheap crap thrown together they can look elsewhere.

That has been my problem, while I have a day job and don't need to make money selling rockets, i'm sure as hell not doing it for free. I had a whole line of LPR and MPR rockets designed suppliers lined up and all, it's just not worth the ink from my printer or the gas to the post office for the $5 bucks over cost that people demand. And as you said you get what you pay for.

I like a sale just as much as the next guy, but the 5% over cost isn't going to do anybody any good, there just isn't enough volume in this hobby to sustain it.

I cant say I blame most consumers though, with every ones pay check shrinking, what should we expect, i'm making $250 less than 2010 and that's with two cost of living raises.





TA

 

[cwbullet]

I have lost faith in online vendors. After being ripped off by two, I am going to stick to my on-field vendors. They keep out club afloat.

 

[JMZawodny]

I like to build my own rockets from scratch so I mostly buy parts (primarily because I like the end of my tubes to be square and the fin slots to be straight and equally spaced - it is amazing how far off these can be at some vendors). Seeing something interesting on sale at a vendor's site often gets me to buy. I'll usually toss in a few items (not on sale) that are needed with a kit. If I like what I bought on sale, I'll go back to that vendor again during the year for other things. It is not unusual for the quantity of sale items to be limited, so I suspect some may use this as a form of advertising to obtain new customers.

I'll give a personal example, I bought my first Mad Cow kit at a Black Friday sale a couple of years ago. I liked it a lot and have been back several times since to buy things at essentially full price. In return, Mad Cow now offers some nice quality FWFG nosecones in less popular shapes and sizes. They are using them in their kits and also offering them as parts. They are not cheap, but they are high quality and worth the price (to me). I go back to them without having to worry about quality. Fortunately for all of us there are quite a few vendors like this.

I also agree with the comments that customers want these sale prices year round and that is generally not possible if the vendor plans to stay in business. I'll confess that I had very (too) high expectations for really good deals this year's Black *day Sales. As a result I bought nothing, but that was just me. I was interested in reloads this year and had to weigh the cost of shipping and hazmat against the difference in price (only 5% more off than our local vendor who delivers to our launches). I opted to give a good sized order to our local vendor rather than save a few dollars. Many others had an on-line feeding frenzy that will likely dampen sales for months to come.

I think the bottom line is that vendors have different motivations and business models so we should not expect all of them to be doing the same thing (sale, no sale, free shipping, clubs, ...). Ultimately the customer will determine who succeeds and who does not, so the vendors need to find and continually adjust what works for both them and their customers. This is the essence of the capitalist system.

 

[belfert]

I remember LDRS 2011 at Argonia. Vendors were offering discounts on motors up to 35% and maybe even 40%. It is hard for anyone to make money when vendors are practically working for free. Nothing was really selling either.

Some rocketry vendors refuse to give large discounts. Nobody will buy today if they know eventually you'll have a sale and they can stock up.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

I remember LDRS 2011 at Argonia. Vendors were offering discounts on motors up to 35% and maybe even 40%. It is hard for anyone to make money when vendors are practically working for free. Nothing was really selling either.

Some rocketry vendors refuse to give large discounts. Nobody will buy today if they know eventually you'll have a sale and they can stock up.

35-40% discounts-not working practically for free, that is free. Don't forget that vendors have to cover shipping charges from the manufactures, and that eats 5-10% off the top. I didn't sell much at that launch either.

 

[michigander]

Estes sale was perfect timing I ordered almost 10 lbs. of rockets .. but that hurt hobbylinc in my case I was very close to ordering rockets for grand kids Christmas presents


other November sales I only bought 1 FG rocket and tons of propellent that was my first ever hazmat fee lol
I normally buy motors from onsite vendor .. but he missed a few launches last summer so nice to have backup plans
another note on our onsite vendor he emails before placing order if anything special wanted + doesn't want money until pickup

 

[Delta-IV]

Carl
What is the normal shipping time for a pre built model?
Gary

If you are speaking of the plastic display models they are currently taking me about 5 to 7 days to get it out the door.

Thanks,
-Carl-

 

[tmacklin]

Reading this thread gives me a fabulous idea on a way to stimulate sales. Screw the discounts! I'll just offer all of my products for free! Yes, FREE!

But wait, there's more! For an unlimited time, I'll also pick up the shipping costs. And as if this deal ain't sweet enough I'll actually pay customers an additional TEN DOLLARS just for the trouble of placing an order! Holy Crap, can you believe it!

This offer not valid where prohibited. Limit one per customer. :flyingpig:

 

[shrox]

I am only going to offer plan paks.

 

[harsas]

Bingo! This is the problem I see as I am a vendor. It is really difficult to stay in business when everyone expects discounts. The other thing that hurts is people buying from xyz hobbies at a deep discount and not supporting that local vendor. I figure this-If you buy $500 in reloads online at 10%off, and pay shipping, you could have bought them from your local vendor at the launch at retail and paid the same amount. Better yet, you supported the local guy who is trying to help your club. The truth is that a club with a vendor has the ability to expand a lot faster than a club without one.

And everyone say in unison "thank you Walmart". Walmart has taught us that no matter how cheap anything is, you can get it cheaper.

 

[chris m]

Until now I have been uninsurable. Now I will have health coverage, and since my condition does directly affect my rocket wizard powers, it's probably a good thing.

Reading this thread gives me a fabulous idea on a way to stimulate sales. Screw the discounts! I'll just offer all of my products for free! Yes, FREE!

But wait, there's more! For an unlimited time, I'll also pick up the shipping costs. And as if this deal ain't sweet enough I'll actually pay customers an additional TEN DOLLARS just for the trouble of placing an order! Holy Crap, can you believe it!

This offer not valid where prohibited. Limit one per customer. :flyingpig:

Yes I will take four of everything . You can keep the ten dollars , don't want to feel I'm taking advantage . And can it be here before Christmas . I will make order for ten other people addresses that I know for the same thing

 

[tmacklin]

Yes I will take four of everything . You can keep the ten dollars , don't want to feel I'm taking advantage . And can it be here before Christmas . I will make order for ten other people addresses that I know for the same thing

I'm sorry. There must have been too much rum in my egg nog.

 

[cwbullet]

I want to help stimulate the winter builds. Stay tune for more auctions. I am going to my storage building today and will post at least one new kit and some parts. I have a lot to offer up. I just have to sort it.

What are you guys looking for?

 

[crossfire]

Hi
I am looking for a Dynacom Black Widow kit or tubes. I think there around 2.6 tubes. Or Eric's last kits AirX-1 kits.
gp

 

[belfert]

Walmart mostly sells at everyday low prices and doesn't have a lot of sales. The stores that really have caused everyone to expect everything on sale are department stores. Kohl's, JC Penney, and other dept stores have 30%, 40%, 50% off sales all time. Hardly anything at Kohl's is ever not on sale. I doubt anybody has ever paid the marked up "retail" prices on their clothes. I bought a pair of pants marked $45 the other day for less than $15. JC Penney tried to eliminate the constant sales and just mark everyday prices on everything. This new strategy almost put the company out of business.

The Kinetico dealer locally has basically baked in a $500 discount into their prices. They are constantly advertising $500 off for one reason or another. I bet if you walked in off the street the salesperson would give you $500 off just for asking for a lower price.

 

[VonMises]

You don't suppose that the "sticker shock" of the not so Affordable Health Care Act is coming home to roost? Anybody want to buy a good, used bass boat? :cyclops:

Absolutely. Perhaps not immediately, but even a basic understanding of real economics, Austrian not Keynesian, tells us that this is inevitable. We have limited resources, therefore we must allocate those resources from things we want to those things we’re forced to pay for against our will. I know this is very basic, but there are those that will never get it.

Reading this thread gives me a fabulous idea on a way to stimulate sales. Screw the discounts! I'll just offer all of my products for free! Yes, FREE!

But wait, there's more! For an unlimited time, I'll also pick up the shipping costs. And as if this deal ain't sweet enough I'll actually pay customers an additional TEN DOLLARS just for the trouble of placing an order! Holy Crap, can you believe it!

This offer not valid where prohibited. Limit one per customer. :flyingpig:

In addition, we’ll force all manufacturers on to an exchange and make them include extra parts in their kits that don’t belong. Then we’ll tell everyone the kits cost less even though the cost has doubled. I’m sure we’ll find plenty of support for this. We’ll call it the Affordable Kit Act.

 

[stealth6]

It's sure is good that this thread didn't turn political - especially in such a way that has absolutely NOTHING to do with rocketry in any way, shape, or form.

But I understand - I too am just livid that Obama and those evil libruls are so dead set on destroying this hobby that they came up with this vicious scheme of "affordable healthcare" simply to do so.

s6

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

It's sure is good that this thread didn't turn political - especially in such a way that has absolutely NOTHING to do with rocketry in any way, shape, or form.

But I understand - I too am just livid that Obama and those evil libruls are so dead set on destroying this hobby that they came up with this vicious scheme of "affordable healthcare" simply to do so.

s6

It's not affordable healthcare that's destroying rocketry, it's same-sex marriage and renewable energy.

 

[shrox]

More pictures of cats please.