Utter Neophyte Question

[John T]

Was in a hobby shop this morning to get supplies for my son's Pinewood Derby car. Made the mistake of bringing him inside with me, and he found the model rocketry aisle....

Waiting for warmer weather before we assemble the rocket, but my most basic question is, where do we launch this thing?

Mostly I'd like to know how much open area do we need, in order to be able to find the rocket again. School playground? Football field? Sports complex with multiple fields? Farmers field with 100's of open acres????

We're in northern Maryland, and I have some sites in mind, including a park area that has some huge open fields. The rockets have purported max altitudes of 600 - 1000 feet.

Thanx.
-John-

 

[Gnomad]

You need landowner permission to launch legally. There are no public lands in Maryland that permit rocket launches.

Fortunately there are quite a number of clubs in the area and you can find one launching just about every weekend.

https://www.narhams.org/

https://www.mdrocketry.org/

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/visitor/events/rocket_launch.html

https://www.spaar.org/

 

[stantonjtroy]

If your looking to fly modrocs in northern MD Then NARHAMS is the group to hook up with. They fly at Old Pike Park just east of Frederick. Great group of guys and very helpfull.

 

[John T]

Thanks Gnomad - this isn't something I'd hoped to hear - I just wanted my boy to shoot off a couple of rockets and be able to find them again.

And StantonJTroy - these are basic off-the shelf entry level 1 rocket kits - not punching any holes in the ozone.....

Maybe if I rephrase the question - I live on several acres, but much of it is wooded. Assuming I can launch an off-the-shelf model rocket on my own property without special permits, how much clear area do I need, so the rocket doesn't come down in the trees?

I realize that the answer will be "It depends", but lets assume I launch on a relatively calm day. Again, these are basic, beginner rocket kits, B and C engines, but the package CLAIMS possible altitudes of 600 to 1000 feet.

I'm happy to launch from my own land, and am on good enough terms with all the neighbors that I can go several hundred yards in any direction, but wooded areas may come into play.

Thanks again
-John-

 

[eggplant]

I know you didn't want to hear this... but it depends. If you build the model from a kit, and the fins aren't perfect, it could veer off course. You might want to use a streamer instead of a parachute if it is at all windy. According to the NAR code, you are going to want a field that is about 400 feet on each side, with no trees. Also, some advice from experience. Try to fly in a field with as low grass as possible. Otherwise, if you loose sight of the rocket on the way down, and it lands in tall grass, you may not be able to see it.

 

[John T]

Thanks, Eggplant -
The reference to NAR was most helpful. I found the guidelines, and the table was exactly what I wanted to know. The other rules are also helpful, and I will be sure my son signs off on them prior to our launches.

Looks like 400 feet will be OK on my own property (maybe drifting onto some friendly neighbors, but its all good).

Once the weather warms, we'll try launching something, and will probably be back with more questions.

Thanks for all the help.
-John-

 

[Bone Daddy]

Hey John T

Sounds like you just want to launch a few with your son and you have some open land. I'm assuming you have something like an Estes Alpha.

On a relatively calm day, find the center of the largest open space you have. Put the smallest engine recommended for the kit and launch it. This will give you some first hand experience to work with. People routinely fly rockets with small motors and parachutes on baseball diamonds and football fields.

Estes gives a recommended motor for the first flight. This has nothing to do with rockets having to be broken in. Beginners have a tendency to put in the largest recommended motor. They want you to have at least one flight where you have a good chance of getting the rocket back.

It also helps to think in terms of scale. For the Alpha they recommend an A8-3 for the first flight. They predict an altitude of 300 ft. If you think about, that's a football field high. Not bad.

On a C they predict 1,000 ft. Now your looking at 3 football fields or so. The Alpha quickly disappears into the sky. You may here a pop from the ejection charge and then everyone scans the sky looking for the parachute.

So start small and work your way up. You'll quickly get a feel for what will work for you.

Be careful though, it often starts with the kid, but not end there............

Have fun flying and let us know how it turns out.

Bones

 

[Gnomad]

You have several options to fly on your own land. One of the easiest is to go with one of Art Applewhite's saucers. There are a number that you can download for free and print out on cardstock. If you lose one in the trees it's just an excuse to build another. You can also go with a larger rocket and the smallest recommended motor. Then, once you have some successful launches under your belt, take it out to one of the club events and load it up with a C-class motor and watch her rip!

 

[Marc_G]

I'll add just one more note here:

The effect of even a little wind is considerable. I've been a BAR since May and have been launching LPRs at a public park near where I live. The primary space is shaped as a circle of radius 500 feet (surrounded by an asphalt path) and outside that radius there are trees in several directions (or other hazards like picnic areas and parking lots). I launch from a point near the center on a small hill.

In my couple dozen launch events, I had ONE day where the winds were dead calm. I launched straight up, and each and every rocket came down within 50 feet of the pad. These ranged from Mini Max with A10-3T to a Blue Ninja on a D12-5, and plenty in between. It was glorious. I even recovered just about all of the wadding which only drifted a hundred feet or so.

With light winds (<5 miles per hour), recovery distances increase to up to 200 feet or so for the same fleet and same engines. Still not bad.

Once you get over 5 miles per hour of winds at the surface, you really need to consider that winds may be much more substantial above a hundred feet or so. I send up a pilot rocket first to observe the effects. This is my Mini Max (diehard veteren) on a streamer. Watching it come down, I will often see considerable differences in how the streamer and the rocket body are pulled around by the winds as it descends. Winds tend to be lighter at the surface.

As surface winds exceed ~7 miles per hour, in my location, I start running the risk of the rocket landing outside the 500 foot radius. I have several different parachutes and streamers, and I clip these onto the nosecone with swivel clips (wal-mart fishing section) so that I can tune the descent for safest recovery based on winds.

That being said, I've lost almost as many rockets to too small engines (crash before chute deploy) than drifting away!

Marc

 

[bradycros]

You have several options to fly on your own land. One of the easiest is to go with one of Art Applewhite's saucers. There are a number that you can download for free and print out on cardstock. If you lose one in the trees it's just an excuse to build another. You can also go with a larger rocket and the smallest recommended motor. Then, once you have some successful launches under your belt, take it out to one of the club events and load it up with a C-class motor and watch her rip!

Could you please post a link for the free plans?

 

[Zeus-cat]

https://www.artapplewhite.com/free.html

 

[Gnomad]

Link to Art's free plans:

https://www.artapplewhite.com/free.html

I have built a lot of saucers and find that most of the dimensions are not terribly critical. The secret is to keep them as lightweight as possible.

These saucers are far more stable than you might think, but they are prone to weather-cocking. Saucers go down-range on ascent (into the wind) and do not drift much on decent.

Because you do not need to worry about the drag of a launch lug, you can use a thick launch rod to avoid any chance of rod whip.

Also take a look at the 29mm stealth plans. These can be scaled down and flown on 18mm motors.

Another option for backyard flying are Micro-maxx motors and rockets. This is far and away the safest approach. There is a kit that gives you something like a half-dozen rockets and several dozen motors for a fair price. It often can be found on sale for the price of the motors alone. Certainly worth considering.

 

[bradycros]

Thank you for the info.

 

[troj]

Something I've not seen recommended as a possibility -- Quest MicroMaxx. Perfect for small fields!

A starter set will come with a launch pad, motors, a controller, and a couple pre-built rockets.

After that, if you'd like to build your own, you can find information on line to build your own, including from a ball point pen, or you can buy kits from FlisKits.

One thing to consider, if you go the MicroMaxx route, is that due to their size, they're a bit more difficult to build.

Starting with MicroMaxx would give you and easy way to gauge just how interested your son is, before investing in some larger rockets.

Unless you have several acres of open land, I'd suggest not launching anything other than MicroMaxx on your property -- landing rockets in trees can quickly frustrate a child.

Something to consider, in terms of where to launch, is that if you launch with a club, your son not only gets to fly his own rockets, but he also gets to see what others are flying.

-Kevin

 

[Larry Curcio]

More important than field size: Choose calm days until you have a feel for what you're doing. You enjoy this stuff so much more when you get your rocket back.

 

[powderburner]

Don't forget you can modify your rockets to use "nose blow" recovery (yeah, I know that sounds gross, no, I am not making it up) so your rocket will descend faster. It will tumble back down and be fine most of the time, unless you are launching over a paved parking lot or something. Remove the chute (or streamer), keep the nose cone and the shock cord, and the parts remain attached and the whole thing flops around.

Or keep the chute attached but wad it up, wrap a rubber band around it, and you still have a bunch of (connected) parts that tumble around and fall quite a bit faster. If there is any wind, the rocket will not drift as far.

If you are launching over grass or something comparably soft, your rockets should be fine, even at the faster rates of descent.

 

[Gnomad]

I have gotten rather good at launching large motors in small field. I can send an F motor up to about 300 feet and regularly land the rocket within 50 feet of the pad on a calm day. It's easy with an upscale mosquito and an ejection charge timed to blow before she starts to arc over.

But I have just as much fun sending a minimal diameter rocket out of sight, or having a rocket launched glider disappear over the treetops way in the distance. I'm much more concerned about littering than I am losing my rockets when this happens.

 

[Micromeister]

Was in a hobby shop this morning to get supplies for my son's Pinewood Derby car. Made the mistake of bringing him inside with me, and he found the model rocketry aisle....

Waiting for warmer weather before we assemble the rocket, but my most basic question is, where do we launch this thing?

Mostly I'd like to know how much open area do we need, in order to be able to find the rocket again. School playground? Football field? Sports complex with multiple fields? Farmers field with 100's of open acres????

We're in northern Maryland, and I have some sites in mind, including a park area that has some huge open fields. The rockets have purported max altitudes of 600 - 1000 feet.

Thanx.
-John-

John T:
Bring your boy, his rockets and motors and come fly with us. We're always a fun Group flying everything from Micro Maxx to G motor models but average mostly BP A, B & C's at Old National Pike Park, usually the 3rd Saturday of EVERY month. We have lots of Cubs, Scouts and TARC youth flying as well as us old guys

Please check our website narhams.org calander to be sure we haven't postponed or moved the launch date particularly in the winter months. We were weather canceled this month, but are looking forward to Feb 19th with an additional RC rocket glider theme as well as general flying.
Hope to see you there!