Sirius Saturn V - Build Thread

[Quaranta]

The 3.9" tube has been sanded. The 6" tube waits...

No rush, as the MMT assembly is on hold for the MRS...

 

[Quaranta]

Skipping ahead,... next up the Service Module.

The detail is phenomenal...

 

[Quaranta]

Service Module epoxied to 54mm x 8.6" body tube.

 

[Quaranta]

The Lunar Module shroud is the transition aft of the Service Module.

The kit provides a detailed styrene sheet for this...

 

[Quaranta]

The plan calls to reinforce the LM Shroud styrene sheet with card stock. I want mine stronger, so I have chosen to fabricate a fiberglass shroud to place beneath the styrene sheet...

I made a card stock template,... 3 round templates for shape... and assembled a mold...

I haven't laid the glass yet... wish me luck! The good news is that it is entirely hidden, so it doesn't need to be pretty!

Here's the mold:

 

[Quaranta]

Glass laid,... resin applied. The mold didn't collapse,... so that's a success!

 

[GregGleason]

That's a great idea to beef up the adapter shroud structure by using this method. Strong and lightweight. I like it!

:clap:

Did you do a test-fit the paper to the styrene before building the mold form?

Greg

 

[Quaranta]

That's a great idea to beef up the adapter shroud structure by using this method. Strong and lightweight. I like it!

:clap:

Did you do a test-fit the paper to the styrene before building the mold form?

Greg

Thanks.

Yes. The pic is one of those optical illusion games where the pieces look different, but are the same shape. I also tested the shroud to the mold cone after rolling it.

I laid the glass inside the mold to avoid "growth" due to glass layers. fit should be close with respect to the styrene shroud.

I expect to do a fair bit of sanding to get it to fit the 54mm tube and the 3.9" coupler tube.

I could have just laid it up directly inside the styrene,... but I was afraid the styrene might melt during cure. And any distortion would be permanent. Not to mention resin "slop".

If something goes wrong in this method, I just try again.

 

[delta22]

The Saturn V kit from Sirius Rocketry is a beautifully detailed kit of the most remarkable rocket ever flown.

You are doing a very high quality build here.

I built this same kit in 2008 and have flown it 9 times to date.

Did a number of mods including reinforcing all transitions and the engine bells with fiberglass tape and epoxy. Also filled all styrene wraps with epoxy while adhering them. Made the rocket stand up very well to wear and tear.

Build and flight links:
https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=45421
https://bpasa.com/SaturnV.htm

 

[Quaranta]

The Saturn V kit from Sirius Rocketry is a beautifully detailed kit of the most remarkable rocket ever flown.

You are doing a very high quality build here.

I built this same kit in 2008 and have flown it 9 times to date.

Did a number of mods including reinforcing all transitions and the engine bells with fiberglass tape and epoxy. Also filled all styrene wraps with epoxy while adhering them. Made the rocket stand up very well to wear and tear.

Build and flight links:
https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=45421
https://bpasa.com/SaturnV.htm

Thank you Boris. Your thread got me hooked on the Sirius kit. You also posted a link at some point to "Stones" build thread which is also helpful.

Did you fill the wraps with strait epoxy or dilute it with colloid/etc?

I'm sticking with the stock 38mm engine tube,... so I don't think I need the level of strengthening you incorporated. IIRC,... I think you glassed the body tubes as well?

Thank you again for posting. It's an honor to have you join in!

Simon

 

[Mushtang]

The Saturn V kit from Sirius Rocketry is a beautifully detailed kit of the most remarkable rocket ever flown.

You are doing a very high quality build here.

I built this same kit in 2008 and have flown it 9 times to date.

Did a number of mods including reinforcing all transitions and the engine bells with fiberglass tape and epoxy. Also filled all styrene wraps with epoxy while adhering them. Made the rocket stand up very well to wear and tear.

Build and flight links:
https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=45421
https://bpasa.com/SaturnV.htm

As a LPR guy that is new to the hobby I'm curious about the cost of flying HPR. When I launch my Zooch Saturn V I'll spend maybe $2-$3 each time on motors and wadding.

What is the cost of launching a high powered rocket such as this Sirius Saturn V?

 

[eggplant]

If he uses the I284 that is recommended for this rocket, it will be about $50 per flight.

 

[Quaranta]

Fabricated FG LM Shroud: Rough ends sanded flush and released from mold...

I'm happy with the result. It'll need some sanding and fitting,... But it met my expectations.

 

[Gary Byrum]

The Lunar Module shroud is the transition aft of the Service Module.

The kit provides a detailed styrene sheet for this...

I am curious. Is this a vacuformed wrap? If it is, and you are reinforcing it, what is to protect the raised areas? My thinking is damage upon landings and handling and such.

 

[delta22]

Thank you Boris. Your thread got me hooked on the Sirius kit. You also posted a link at some point to "Stones" build thread which is also helpful.

Did you fill the wraps with strait epoxy or dilute it with colloid/etc?

I'm sticking with the stock 38mm engine tube,... so I don't think I need the level of strengthening you incorporated. IIRC,... I think you glassed the body tubes as well?

Thank you again for posting. It's an honor to have you join in!

Simon

Thank you. I used Locktite 5 minute epoxy to fill and adhere all the styrene wraps. For the wraps that have more depth, mixed in some sawdust as filler, but any filler would do.

This added a lot of toughness to the wraps and they are all still in perfect condition 4 years and 9 flights later.

I did glass the body tubes. While glassing the heavy and strong 6" phenolic tube was unnecessary, glassing the cardboard 4" tube that is the recovery separation point does add durability at a key stress point.

Stones build is truly a museum quality work of art. So nicely crafted that the kit manufacturer has used it as a promotional display piece. It took so much work and is so finely detailed that it has not been flown.

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=12890
https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=14489

 

[Quaranta]

I am curious. Is this a vacuformed wrap? If it is, and you are reinforcing it, what is to protect the raised areas? My thinking is damage upon landings and handling and such.

Yes they are. I am going to fill them as described below.

Thank you. I used Locktite 5 minute epoxy to fill and adhere all the styrene wraps. For the wraps that have more depth, mixed in some sawdust as filler, but any filler would do.

This added a lot of toughness to the wraps and they are all still in perfect condition 4 years and 9 flights later.

I did glass the body tubes. While glassing the heavy and strong 6" phenolic tube was unnecessary, glassing the cardboard 4" tube that is the recovery separation point does add durability at a key stress point.

Stones build is truly a museum quality work of art. So nicely crafted that the kit manufacturer has used it as a promotional display piece. It took so much work and is so finely detailed that it has not been flown.

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=12890
https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=14489

Thanks for the technique.

Now you've got me thinking about doing the top of the 4" tube...

Edit: from your thread...

Body tubes will be fiberglass wrapped. Main 6" tube has 6oz plus 1.3oz veil. 3rd stage 4" tube will have 12oz sleeve plus veil.

Before I go ahead,... I'll test fit the wrap for this section as well as the aft transition to see how much diameter gain can be had without affecting the fit of the wraps.

On another issue... I've never done the FG tape trick. Where do you get the tape. Does it have a brand name?

 

[Quaranta]

Got a call today from Wildman's. My 38 mm Aeropack MRS is backordered. won't come for another week or so.

Oh well. Plenty still to do before it'll delay anything.

 

[Gary Byrum]

Yes they are. I am going to fill them as described below.

Before I applied my wraps for the Estes version, I mixed 30 min epoxy with really small Styrofoam pellets (about 1mm in size) that I got from a cheap cushy pillow. This made for a super light filler for those raised areas and had planned to use it in the fins and fairings. It worked wonderfully and made for excellent rigidity. I finally had to opt out on the given fins and fairings and made a casting mold for those that was thicker and had a better edge to glue on the rocket. The vacuformed parts for the Estes version leaves a lot to be desired. Ill fitting transition wrap and cheesy fin and fairings. I just didn't trust this rocket to land well without beefing up those vac parts.

 

[Quaranta]

Before I applied my wraps for the Estes version, I mixed 30 min epoxy with really small Styrofoam pellets (about 1mm in size) that I got from a cheap cushy pillow. This made for a super light filler for those raised areas and had planned to use it in the fins and fairings. It worked wonderfully and made for excellent rigidity. I finally had to opt out on the given fins and fairings and made a casting mold for those that was thicker and had a better edge to glue on the rocket. The vacuformed parts for the Estes version leaves a lot to be desired. Ill fitting transition wrap and cheesy fin and fairings. I just didn't trust this rocket to land well without beefing up those vac parts.

Thanks for the input.

The wraps definitely need filling to avoid damage during handling. I'm expecting a flight weight between 12-14 lbs... Thats a lot of weight for the wraps to withstand if someone grabs it at the wraps.

 

[delta22]

I've never done the FG tape trick. Where do you get the tape. Does it have a brand name?

It is the fiberglass tape applied between sections of sheetrock in construction.

Sold as "Joint Tape" in hardware stores. Any brand should do fine.

Very loose mesh compared to fiberglass cloth, 2" wide and has adhesive on one side.

I built up 3 to 4 overlapping layers and covered with thick, fast epoxy, like Locktite 5 minute - prep completely first and work fast.

Got the idea from instructions on a couple Applewhite saucer kits.

 

[Quaranta]

It is the fiberglass tape applied between sections of sheetrock in construction. Sold as "Joint Tape" in hardware stores. Any brand should do fine. Very loose mesh compared to fiberglass cloth, 2" wide and has adhesive on one side.

Thanks.

 

[Quaranta]

Finished sanding the 3.9" Body Tube and the 6" Body tube.

Need to decide if I'm going to glass the 3.9" tube... I'm leaning towards doing it.

 

[Quaranta]

I bevel sanded the inside leading edge of the FG Lunar Module shroud support (to allow it to fit flush to the 54mm body tube). The aft end was sanded to final length.

 

[Quaranta]

It fits perfectly.

The first pic is the test fitting (no epoxy) of the service module attached to the 54mm tube, followed by the FG Lunar Module Shroud. Behind this is the 3.9" coupler tube...

The second picture includes the Lunar Module Transition wrap (again,.. just a test fit. No epoxy yet).

I'm very happy with the results.

 

[Quaranta]

Time to assemble the coupler section.

The Coupler mounts to the 54mm tube aft of the liner module shroud. This serves as the separation point for the 2 rocket sections.

5 Parts:
3.9" x 4" Coupler Tube
Forward centering ring
Aft centering ring (with T-Nut holes)
T-Nuts (2)
Bulkhead cover Plate (not shown in first Pic)

 

[Quaranta]

And assembled.

The aft ring is recessed to accept the Bulkhead Cover Plate. This compartment, within the 54mm tube, serves as the ballast chamber.

The center hole in the bulkhead is for an eyebolt. This will be the attach point for the forward section shock cord / parachute.

 

[delta22]

Custom fiberglass piece looks very nice.

The LEM will be well protected...:wink:

 

[Bravo52]

Custom fiberglass piece looks very nice.

The LEM will be well protected...:wink:

Agree. The part looks great. I wonder if you could get a similar effect by saturating the paper shroud with thinned epoxy(?) It would probably be much heavier...

 

[delta22]

Agree. The part looks great. I wonder if you could get a similar effect by saturating the paper shroud with thinned epoxy(?) It would probably be much heavier...

Saturating paper with epoxy or CA will significantly stiffen, harden and make a piece more fire resistant.

However, the glass strands in fiberglass add a lot of additional strength in combination with the epoxy that paper alone does not achieve.

An effective approach that combines both methods is to form a transition or other piece from paper and then cover with fiberglass. Then the paper is the form and is hardened with epoxy, but has the substantial boost in strength from the fiberglass.

 

[Quaranta]

Custom fiberglass piece looks very nice.

The LEM will be well protected...:wink:

Thanks Boris. Coming from you, that means a lot.

Agree. The part looks great. I wonder if you could get a similar effect by saturating the paper shroud with thinned epoxy(?) It would probably be much heavier...

I considered adding FG directly to the inside of the styrene shroud/paper liner,... but I was afraid to ruin the shroud in the attempt. Lots of pitfalls... heat melting the styrene,... loss of round,... epoxy splatter damaging the shroud.

I chose my method because I felt it was the safest. First... do no harm!