Rookie HPR mistakes

[Antares JS]

It was dangerous

And that is exactly why my point stands.

 

[FredA]

Talk about a rookie mistake - setting your hotel on fire.....
How the F do you manage to do this?
This takes work!

NAR President Speaks

 

[Seatechnerd83]

Talk about a rookie mistake - setting your hotel on fire.....
How the F do you manage to do this?
This takes work!

NAR President Speaks

Holy .... how do you even do that? It's not that hard to keep ignitors out of your motors in the hotel room...

 

[Velocity Aerospace]

Don't over tighten your bulkheads to your av Bay, you may end up mushrooming your coupler, and when the charges fire, it won't separate. I did this on my first hpr flight. I should have stood down when I had a hard time getting the airframe on it. With enough baby powder though, I was able to get it on, but it did not come off, causing a rather expensive lawn dart⁷

 

[John Taylor]

I had the epoxy joint fail on a Hawk Mountain Transonic II at the bulkhead on the aft section of the altimeter bay. The epoxy was placed there by the kit manufacturer 15 years ago. Now I check the joints for any rocket that’s more than ten years old.

Sorry that happened. I agree a rocket should be inspected each flight thoroughly.
Thank you.

 

[green dragon]

That would be an interesting research topic. It would be a challenge to get consistent enough shavings to give repeatable results. My operating theory is that the shavings get blown into the hole and delay ignition of the delay in the drilled hole.

Yes, good R&D topic.

Thinking more that the shavings would flare up / burn on all sides ( faster ) providing more pressure and therefor faster burn of the delay grain......

 

[boatgeek]

Yes, good R&D topic.

Thinking more that the shavings would flare up / burn on all sides ( faster ) providing more pressure and therefor faster burn of the delay grain......

Our TARC team found that shavings tended to increase delay time, but that may not be universally applicable.

 

[JackC]

Sorry that happened. I agree a rocket should be inspected each flight thoroughly.
Thank you.

Thanks! But it wasn't a problem. I saw the joint before the rocket flew and repaired it. No fuss, no muss!

 

[86mustang408w]

Is there a post for rookie HPR mistakes? If there is could the mod move this? If not... I'll go first

When you don't secure the parachute protector to keep it from sliding up the shock cord...

it slides up the shock cord. Luckily I sewed a loop in the shock cord for the parachute so it stopped there rather than continue up the shroud lines. I have a sequence of photos that shows the protector moving along the cord. The angle on this shot doesn't show it very well but the nosecone was swung out as far as the booster. It came down like a sick helicopter. No rocket damage though. Luck counts...

Think I'm gonna rig mine at my chute quicklink, saw that on a video and liked it the best out of what I've seen a few use. But Apogee recommends you keep it as close to the BT as possible. This will be in my notes for sure. Thanks for the heads up..

 

[Wrightme43]

I write "JLCR?" on the tape I use to attach the igniter to the nosecone.

Very good idea!

 

[86mustang408w]

I've been practicing high power build techniques on low and mid power stuff. It been a help even using my JL chute release on smaller rockets, getting an altimeter and GPS tracker(and it working first), etc... I think too after I get my L1 I'm going to build a few DD rockets. I've started making my own chute protectors(I used mule tape for a strap sewn into the protector and goes around a quick link) practicing and trying out different knots, different glues/epoxies, making fins with tabs, cutting slots, modifying nosecones for eyelet bolts/bulkheads, adding NC weight, using OpenRocket, etc.... Hoping to go for my L1 next spring. Should be fun.

 

[cls]

I think you get the "Most Over Prepped for L1" award! Good job.

 

[86mustang408w]

I think you get the "Most Over Prepped for L1" award! Good job.

I have some extra time and my launch area for these is a 6 hour drive. I'm definitely preparing! I was getting too in depth and steeped back a little. I got back into this in May this year and haven't launched since 2012. So I got that launch fever wanting after buying a Alpha 3 kit at HL, then 3 weks later im getting ready to build a L1 rocket with supplies I got from Rocketryworks. Figure I might as well make it cool to me, right? Anyways got another or that 2012 collection back in June. And have a few more options now, I took some advice and kind of thought tok I might as well take this summer and fly. Joined the NAR and 2 clubs. My third club launch got to see a L2 cert flight on a K360. I'm hooked, that's the reason for the DD stuff. It definitely seemed to help practicing with smaller inexpensive rockets first....Its been an interesting year Ill leave it at that! But thinking now I want my Aerotech G-Force 38 or 54mm and DD. But might use my Mega for the L1 I haven't decided. I gave myself a year(Summer 2024) to get that L1 and I'm on track and having fun too. I definitely want more than L1 now. I was lucky enough to have James @ Rocketryworks make me some parts for the Mercury Engineering Integrator I bought a while ago. That will probably be my L1 cert rocket, low and slow.

 

[-Slick-Ice]

I think I can attest to the most rookie mistakes by not having flown rockets in about 10 years, building the LOC IRIS-3 rocket that I had sitting since before the 'rona, then getting both my L1 and L2 in about a month.

The IRIS-3 flew great off a G80 for 6 flights so being super confident I decided to get my L1 that day. I bought a H130 and a Jolly Logic (Since there was a good 15 mph wind). Failed my first L1 flight because I didn't ask for advice, followed the picture in the Jolly Logic manual and tied the tether to the parachute line. It tangled bad and almost landed about a foot from the pond. It took me about 30 minutes to untangle the parachute, shock cord, and payload section (Which was attached with a knot and not a quick link). Second fight I tied the jolly logic to the end of the shock cord, worked great, and got my L1 about 30 minutes before the range closed.

After I got home from the L1 I decided I wanted to get my L2 and immediately ordered the IRIS-4, payload bay, extra shock cords, and a Eggtimer Quantum GPS/altimeter. I broke the eggtimer testing the ejection charge and the drogue chute didn't show up anyways so the obvious workaround is to take out the shear pin and just use the regular parachute right. Obviously just don't lose sight of it since I don't have a GPS either.

9/29 - Missed one question on the test. The first flight I used an I180 and knew the 1.4g BP charge would be a little weak but had no way to fit more charge into the case. The payload section barely left the rocket and everything ended up back inside of the parachute and hit the ground in a big yellow nylon ball. The J250 went great with about 2.5g of black powder.

Organization is what has been killing me. Going from low-power to L2, my entire car has filled up 3 boxes of support stuff and rockets rockets, 29,38,54mm casings, aeropack adapters, 3 different delay tools, screw drivers and allan keys, tape measure, 2 trackers, notebook with all of the flight information, laptop, sun shade. I bought a MTM divided ammo can to at least get the motor stuff organized last week.

At this point a checklist is really needed - Is the chute release turned on? Is the parachute folded or did I just stuff it back into the rocket after the last flight? Is the parachute actually attached to the payload section? Did I put the battery in the tracker? Did I put the powder charge (and washer) in the motor case? Did I forget the igniter? It gets complicated quick.

 

[cwbullet]

Failure to put the parachute in the rocket. I have seen it a lot and have never done it myself. It isn't very comfortable when they go through the RSO table and answer yes to putting the parachute inside.

 

[Gastrok]

Failure to put the parachute in the rocket. I have seen it a lot and have never done it myself. It isn't very comfortable when they go through the RSO table and answer yes to putting the parachute inside.

Makes me think about how I might mount the chute on the outside of the rocket. Is there a rule about that? ;-)

 

[cwbullet]

Makes me think about how I might mount the chute on the outside of the rocket. Is there a rule about that? ;-)

don't think so. It might be worth a build thread.

 

[Gastrok]

don't think so. It might be worth a build thread.

Noted.

 

[Aeva]

don't think so. It might be worth a build thread.

To throw another idea out that's related (hopefully not straying too far from the topic): using fairings for chute protection and deployment. I had an idea with one of my printed rockets. I couldn't launch this one because it's PLA, but I loved the concept. I basically had 3 petal like fairings attached to the cord and mounted with inner tubes to channels from the ejection charge. I think it would work better on a larger scale with more heat resistant materials, but I haven't tried it since I made this concept rocket.

 

[Aeva]

Holy .... how do you even do that? It's not that hard to keep ignitors out of your motors in the hotel room...

While it seems obvious, it's easy to overlook if you're still new to composite motors. I didn't know you're supposed to keep it out until you get to the pad when I did one of my first public midpower launches until the RSO table mentioned it. I typically twist the igniter ends together so there is no unequal charge to cause a spark and maybe that's enough, but it's definitely better to not insert it at all.

 

[John Taylor]

While it seems obvious, it's easy to overlook if you're still new to composite motors. I didn't know you're supposed to keep it out until you get to the pad when I did one of my first public midpower launches until the RSO table mentioned it. I typically twist the igniter ends together so there is no unequal charge to cause a spark and maybe that's enough, but it's definitely better to not insert it at all.

I only pre flight insert an igniter would be up to D impulse as in low power. I do not pre insert the igniter from F impulse on up until the rocket is aimed up on the pad or in a designated prep area always keeping the rocket pointed away from everyone. I tape them on the side.

 

[cwbullet]

Another one is leaving our smoke grain or delay element because you are doing the dual deployment. I have seen this a few times with college teams. It was not until I asked if you left anything out of your motor kit.

 

[John Taylor]

Think I'm gonna rig mine at my chute quicklink, saw that on a video and liked it the best out of what I've seen a few use. But Apogee recommends you keep it as close to the BT as possible. This will be in my notes for sure. Thanks for the heads up..

Only issue I have experienced with having the chute attachment close to the body tube, was when my ejection charge failed to completly deploy all the laundry. The nose cone and about 5' out of the airframe. The shockcord was out but the chute was further in and did not deploy. Total loss.
If the first part of the shock cord had the chute down from the nose cone several feet it would be the first thing out increasing chute deployment successes.

 

[cwbullet]

Gluing your fingers to the rocket with CA.

 

[86mustang408w]

I only pre flight insert an igniter would be up to D impulse as in low power. I do not pre insert the igniter from F impulse on up until the rocket is aimed up on the pad or in a designated prep area always keeping the rocket pointed away from everyone. I tape them on the side.

I've been to 2 different clubs. While one is low power and frowns upon you having them in the rocket until you get there, the other is high power and I agree to wait. I agree with High power you shouldn't have the igniter in until the pad, but see many guys that rig F/G and smaller engines up then go directly to the pad at the other club. If you treat a rocket with a F or G motor like a loaded weapon once the igniter is in for F/G, why is it frowned upon? If anything it could off as you hook up the leads.. So for low up to F/G I do them before, and keep my fingers back while hooking them up. But high will be at the pad. It would very hard for me and my disability to do it at the pad for every low power rocket.

 

[loopy]

Gluing your fingers to the rocket with CA.

Or gluing your fingers to each other...

 

[Aeva]

Or gluing your fingers to each other...

I feel like we could have a whole thread of adhesive mistakes lol. Gluing fins backwards from what was instructed in the kit (not in HPR for me yet... but maybe it will happen sooner than later), not noticing glue that dripped onto your nice floor (or just not gluing in a cleared space with something under it), and not mixing epoxy completely (it doesn't cure all the way and you get a stretchy kinda adhesion instead of the hardened material you'd expect). Another thing I try to do is avoid having any couplers/shoulders inserted while gluing so if it gets messy I don't accidentally make my rocket all one piece. This is more important for my 3d printed rockets because I have limits to how tall I can make body tubes and I like filling the seams with something to smooth them out- I tend to use a little bit of cheap epoxy (I have some quick curing bondo I'm trying to use up) to fill the cracks and that can bleed/drip if I put it on thick.

I would add as a small mistake: forgetting to sand/rough the parts being adhered. You'll get a much better bond, but it tends to slip my mind.

 

[NTP2]

Gluing your fingers to the rocket with CA.

This is a expert mistake too.

 

[John Taylor]

I've been to 2 different clubs. While one is low power and frowns upon you having them in the rocket until you get there, the other is high power and I agree to wait. I agree with High power you shouldn't have the igniter in until the pad, but see many guys that rig F/G and smaller engines up then go directly to the pad at the other club. If you treat a rocket with a F or G motor like a loaded weapon once the igniter is in for F/G, why is it frowned upon? If anything it could off as you hook up the leads.. So for low up to F/G I do them before, and keep my fingers back while hooking them up. But high will be at the pad. It would very hard for me and my disability to do it at the pad for every low power rocket.

I have never had a club prohibit installation of the igniter in advance
on a low power (Thru D impulse) rocket.
Personally I wait until on the pad in a vertical direction before inserting the igniter on anything above D impulse.
The Estes igniters are high current demand and don't fire easily, usually requiring a launch system with fresh batteries. Some igniters are very low current demand and can ignite easily perhaps with only static electricity. Most prudent is to leave bare ends twisted together until attaching to leads.
Always strike the system leads together looking for sparks (bad) before attaching to igniter.
I tape the igniter to the outside of the rocket carring it out to the pad.

 

[86mustang408w]

I have never had a club prohibit installation of the igniter in advance
on a low power (Thru D impulse) rocket.
Personally I wait until on the pad in a vertical direction before inserting the igniter on anything above D impulse.
The Estes igniters are high current demand and don't fire easily, usually requiring a launch system with fresh batteries. Some igniters are very low current demand and can ignite easily perhaps with only static electricity. Most prudent is to leave bare ends twisted together until attaching to leads.
Always strike the system leads together looking for sparks (bad) before attaching to igniter.
I tape the igniter to the outside of the rocket carring it out to the pad.

I agree.