NAR and high power

[metalwizard]

I've been with NAR for years, but i've about had it, I love this hobby, all parts of it, but i notice that the NAR seems to treat high power like that brother you dont want anyone to know about!!


In the NAR sport rocketry, there was a nice article about NAR launch but not one word about high power stuuf. then today i get the new "THRUST" magazine (great mag by the way) and again an article on NARAM, I was there, i flew several high power flights, my best friend flew several high power flights, plus dozens of other people flying high power. but again NOT A WORD OR A PIC IN THE STORY!!

i think its time to move on.... im gonna send in my application for tripoli as soon as i can, so BYE BYE to NAR........



anyone else notice this, or is it just me? are NAR guys little rocket boys? and thats it?? i'd love to hear your opinion!!!

 

[metalwizard]

or maybe im just ranting on.......

 

[Donaldsrockets]

NAR is more into competition IMO!!!

I personally have only been a member of TRA, mostly because my local club is a TRA prefecture.

I would say that if you're more into HPR, go with TRA.

 

[Rocket Guy 1317]

Ummm I personally haven't noticed it really, in latest Sport Rocketry they had a report about the NSL and mentioned high power rocket launches. The only difference I noticed between TRA and NAR was in their L3 certification where NAR has a few more requirement to meet then TRA L3 requirements, beside from TRA supporting research motors. But I mainly joined TRA to help support rocketry even more. But like Donald said NAR is aimed more tords competition rocketry and TRA is aimed more tords High Power Rocketry. But I can safely say I'm proud to be a member of both TRA and NAR.

This is just my opinion and what I've noticed.

 

[Saks_Russel]

Yes mark, you are ranting. I joined NAR, but TRA is a perfectly good organization too. I'm sure that more HPR articles would appear if they were submitted.... hint hint.

Yeah, I need to do more writing too. I have a couple of articles I am thinking of writing up for Sport Rocketry and Thrust mostly to do with adhesives, but I may do one on HPR too. I need more expirience before I'd feel confident about wanting to publish anything on HPR.

Ken

 

[n3tjm]

NAR supports HPR in a big way. They have articles about HPR launches all the time. They do focus on Competition and Education (especially Education lately) more than HPR. However, NAR knows Education is VERY important to the future of this hobby. We want to get more youngsters in this hobby because in order for this hobby to survive, we need to get the youngsters hooked . NAR, and LAUNCH seems to be very focused on that goal.

 

[vjp]

Originally posted by metalwizard
then today i get the new "THRUST" magazine (great mag by the way) and again an article on NARAM, I was there, i flew several high power flights, my best friend flew several high power flights, plus dozens of other people flying high power. but again NOT A WORD OR A PIC IN THE STORY!!

I don't understand - how is the NAR responsible for "thrust" magazine's lack of HPR coverage?

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by vjp
I don't understand - how is the NAR responsible for "thrust" magazine's lack of HPR coverage?

Is this another new magazine on top of Sport Rocketry, Extreme Rocketry, Rockets & Launch? Wow, I'm not going to be able to afford them all.

 

[tquigg]

If NAR doesn't support HPR, then why did they join forces with TRA to take on the BATFE?

 

[als57]

NAR does tend to favor the low power and copitition type events. That said they have a decent hi power program. I like it better for L1 & L2 than Tripolli's approach.

NAR clubs (in this area anyway) tend to attract more younger flyers and family groups. Make no mistake that's our future there. Also things like TARC have improved rocketrys visability and exposed a bunch of young folks to rocketry.

Bottom line is both organizations are worthy of your support. You choose which one gets your dollars. But support at least one.


Al
BRS Pres
NAR L2
NARWNY #590
Tripolli Pref #85

 

[Micromeister]

Being on the other side going mostly micro, I'd argue there is way too much HPR in the NAR's Sport Rocketry mag.
As mentioned the NAR supports HPR in a big way, but we are a MODEL rocketry orginization, that's why Tripoli was crerated... for the HPR guys. While hpr is a part of the NARs overall program...low and mid power rocketry SHOULD be it's main focus, bringing in the next generation of Mod-Roc flyers. That Why the education end is so very important.

 

[shreadvector]

NARAM is primarily a competition launch. There is a lot of sport flying on a separate range and there are other activities as well (lectures, meetings, presentations, etc.).

If there was not coverage of every single facet of the event, it is possibly because nobody volunteered to take photos and write the article.

You could do that and solve your problem instantly. If you don't have the time, you could find another volunteer or pay someone to do the job - especially if they concentrate on photos and reports of YOUR rockets!

Now, if there was an article on the NAR National Sport Launch (NSL) and it did not mention HPR, we would have a serious problem. All the NSL articles have plenty of HPR coverage.

Originally posted by metalwizard
I've been with NAR for years, but i've about had it, I love this hobby, all parts of it, but i notice that the NAR seems to treat high power like that brother you dont want anyone to know about!!


In the NAR sport rocketry, there was a nice article about NAR launch but not one word about high power stuuf. then today i get the new "THRUST" magazine (great mag by the way) and again an article on NARAM, I was there, i flew several high power flights, my best friend flew several high power flights, plus dozens of other people flying high power. but again NOT A WORD OR A PIC IN THE STORY!!

i think its time to move on.... im gonna send in my application for tripoli as soon as i can, so BYE BYE to NAR........



anyone else notice this, or is it just me? are NAR guys little rocket boys? and thats it?? i'd love to hear your opinion!!!

 

[overby]

Originally posted by metalwizard
I've been with NAR for years, but i've about had it, I love this hobby, all parts of it, but i notice that the NAR seems to treat high power like that brother you dont want anyone to know about!!

When you were at NARAM, did you go to the town meeting? I wasn't at last year's, but in past town meetings, Mark Bundick has made it completely clear that NAR understands that the high power brings in the adults, and the adults bring the kids. No HPR, no adults. No adults, no kids. No kids, no future. Oh, sure, if someone's kid dabbles in rocketry the parent will come along a few times. But if you get the parent interested in flying themselves then they'll keep on coming back.

I think it's unfair for you to judge NAR by a trip to NARAM. NARAM is the NAR Annual Meet. That is, it is a _competition_ meet. Well, naturally thats going to have a competition focus. I've never made it to an NSL, but from the coverage I've seen of NSL in Sport Rocketry it is a high power launch.

When looking at local clubs, NAR sections tend to be more willing to tollerate flying small(er) rockets on smaller fields whereas TRA require the big field. Thus, you'll find NAR sections in places where you won't find TRA because of field size. And they fly smaller rockets.

I've been to launches held by that "other" club and have seen biases against "small" rockets in the same way.

Glen Overby

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by overby
When you were at NARAM, did you go to the town meeting? I wasn't at last year's, but in past town meetings, Mark Bundick has made it completely clear that NAR understands that the high power brings in the adults, and the adults bring the kids. No HPR, no adults. No adults, no kids. No kids, no future. Oh, sure, if someone's kid dabbles in rocketry the parent will come along a few times. But if you get the parent interested in flying themselves then they'll keep on coming back.

I think it's unfair for you to judge NAR by a trip to NARAM. NARAM is the NAR Annual Meet. That is, it is a _competition_ meet. Well, naturally thats going to have a competition focus. I've never made it to an NSL, but from the coverage I've seen of NSL in Sport Rocketry it is a high power launch.

When looking at local clubs, NAR sections tend to be more willing to tollerate flying small(er) rockets on smaller fields whereas TRA require the big field. Thus, you'll find NAR sections in places where you won't find TRA because of field size. And they fly smaller rockets.

I've been to launches held by that "other" club and have seen biases against "small" rockets in the same way.

Glen Overby

Glen:
While I agree with much of what you wrote there, I couldn't disagree more the the line about hpr brings adults. maybe out west in the wide open desert, but HPR is an end use,not a begining. Never has and from my point of view never will. 50years of MODEL rocketery... HPR's only been around formally less then 20. so the future is still Model Rockets not the big stuff.

NAR sections almost alway have high power to one extent or another at most "sport launches", even at Contest launches we (at least here on the east coast) try to allow for sport flights as well. Most tripoli prefects and HPR people in my experience are far less inclusive...some just down right snooty.
for myself, I don't plan to ever fly anything larger the the mid power BP clusters I currently fly. HPR just isn't an option in my neck of the woods, even If I had a place to store AP motors, they simple have NO appeal. Too loud, too much trouble, Toooo many regs and way to expensive to boot. That's my story and I'm stickin to it
If HPR ceased to exist tomorrow Model rocktry as a hobby would continue to thrive and expand as it has for the last 50 some years, bringing in kids and adults with with wonder of flight, just like always. out of sight is just as exciting,be it 200 feet with a micro or 2000 feet with something bigger, it just depends on how much land and time you have to bring them back

 

[troj]

NAR's primary focus is low and mid power. That's a reality, and there's nothing wrong with that, as that's where the vast majority of the members seem to find enjoyment.

At the same time, there are NAR members that fly almost exclusively high power. Nothing wrong with that, either. Our club Vice President is a NAR member, but most of what he flies in high power.

A lot of it, though, depends on what the local Section does. I know of people who fly with NAR Sections that have a signficant portion of their launches as high power. I know of others who have local NAR Sections who indirectly discourage heavy high-power flying, and who do everything they can to prevent TRA-specific activities, such as Research Launches, even though they're not being done under the NAR banner, where they're not allowed.

It really comes down to the local folks for most of what your experience will be.

Our club is a mixed NAR Section/TRA Prefecture, and some of us are TRA only, some are NAR only, and some are members of both. I've been a member of both, and when my finances forced me to select one or the other, I picked the one that fits me best -- TRA. For others, the decision would be NAR.

Everyone has their own interests; you need to pick the organization that's the best fit for you, not for someone else.

-Kevin

 

[RoyGreen]

Originally posted by metalwizard
I've been with NAR for years, but i've about had it, I love this hobby, all parts of it, but i notice that the NAR seems to treat high power like that brother you dont want anyone to know about!!

..............

anyone else notice this, or is it just me? are NAR guys little rocket boys? and thats it?? i'd love to hear your opinion!!!

You have blinders on, my friend. If anything there have been more HPR articles in Sport Rocketry than anything else the past year or so. People have written letters to the editor about it.

NARAM is still primarily a model rocket competition, and the competition is always going to be the focus of the initial articles about it. I would suggest waiting for the next issue, and you'll probably see coverage of the sport launch part of NARAM.

LAUNCH magazine (not THRUST) is an independent magazine, attempting to cover all forms of the hobby AND space related issues as well. Give them a few months to establish their reportage. Don't blame the NAR for their editorial balance.

If you aren't interested at all in lower powered rocketry, then it probably would be best for you to leave NAR and join Tripoli.

 

[metalwizard]

O.K. guys soooo much good stuff, better resposes than i expected! \

I'm gonna reply as much as i can at once, so if i didnt respond to everything its not because i did nt appreceate the respose.

I'm not say that NAR, doesnt do HPR. heck im nar LIII myself. i do agree with the fact that HPR brings the adults, but the adults bring the kids! and we are nothing without them!!

I just noticed that the NAR seems to focus a large percent on low/mid power.. and theres nothing wrong with low/mid power, I have 100+ low/mid rockets in my fleet, and the get their share of airtime, but sorry micronizer, i never could get into the micromaxx thing, heck i could throw the things higher than they fly (LOL no offense bro.)

The big peoblem i have is it really seems like Nar only dose HPR because the have too, not because they want to!! I love flying anf the bigger the better, but than again for practical sakes i fly lots in the "h"- "J" power range, plus with those i dont usely have to travel miles to recover them (mostly). But i have been know to throw up a big sucker on occasion!

someone said what dose thrust mag have to do with NAR, well directly they dont, but i met the guy that took lots of the picks and the writer of the actical, and he is a NAR member, that the only thing that hooks them together.


Anyways bottem line NAR is doing great at what they do and god willing hope the keep rolling into the next decade, I'm just thinking that now may be the time for me to turn to te other side and join TRIPOLI!

I've kinda kept this under wraps, but my newish job has alt to do with how i'm looking at this "topic", I am working for Aerotech, yep its my dream job, and withmy employee discount, i think flyg more high power and bigger high power is gonna be a way of life!

thanks again for the input, and remeber "keep the pointy end UP"

 

[Fuddrucker]

Hmm,,, well I guess one could say that Tripoli only seems to support HPR. I never hear about Tripoli meets that do very much low power. It always seems to be about massive projects and experimental launches.

I think what happens for the most part is this,,,, Someone new to the hobby plays around with the Estes type rockets, discovers that there is another whole world out there and wants to go bigger, higher and faster. NAR I think is more widely heard of because of all of the little paper flyers that are included in most of the small A, B, C, D motor kits. They see these, investigate, and join. Then as they attend launches and get their certs, they hear about this other organization called Tripoli. They hear all the stories about all the "BIG" projects and launches like "Balls", "XPRS", "LDRS" Ect. and also see that most of those launches are "Tripoli" launches. NAR members can attend, but it is mostly Tripoli members who are there. It's at this point that I think most NAR members want to also become Tripoli members because NAR launches don't usually have these massive projects.

I think that some Tripoli members actually look down on NAR members because of the fact that they are not Tripoli members. I have seen people bad mouth other flyers because they are not Tripoli members. I think it is a waste for people to become level III and then ONLY fly a rocket that has an M or larger motor in it. It's like once they become a level 3 anything smaller than an M ain't worth their time and that's a shame in my opinion. Yes, I have seen many examples of this first hand.

In the end, it all balances out. NAR seems to get most of the new flyers out there and then educate them as they progress through the ranks. Once that person starts to get tired of the same old thing, they migrate to Tripoli to further expand their knowledge, skills, and project size with much more emphasis and exposure on HPR than they were with NAR.

...Fudd

 

[troj]

Originally posted by Fuddrucker
I think that a lot of Tripoli members actually look down on NAR members because of the fact that they are not Tripoli members. I have seen people bad mouth other flyers because they are not Tripoli members. I think it is a waste for people to become level III and then ONLY fly a rocket that has an M or larger motor in it. It's like once they become a level 3 anything smaller than an M ain't worth their time and that's a shame in my opinion. Yes, I have seen many examples of this first hand.

I've seen the attitude towards members of the other organization equally from both, and personally, I think it's stupid.

Find the organization that best fits you; what fits you may not fit me, and vice-versa.

-kevin

 

[tquigg]

I agree Kevin. The NAR vs TRA, HPR vs model vs mid-power stuff I've seen over the years is silly.

I've been in the hobby since 1975. Over the years, I've come to realize that it's not about how many rockets one club can launch in one day as compared to another. It's not about if you can build and fly a bigger rocket than the next guy, or punch it higher or faster than anyone else.

Personally, I could care less whether I'm launching an Estes Alpha III on an A8-3, or a 10-foot scratch-built on a K550. If it goes "whoosh" it's a rocket, and ANY rocket is fun!

More and more (for me anyway) the hobby is about the PEOPLE I choose to spend time with at a launch, sharing in the same passion for the hobby, and enjoying the fellowship that it brings at each launch.

Okay, I'm done now....

Best Regards

 

[Saks_Russel]

Originally posted by tquigg


More and more (for me anyway) the hobby is about the PEOPLE I choose to spend time with at a launch, sharing in the same passion for the hobby, and enjoying the fellowship that it brings at each launch.

Okay, I'm done now....

Best Regards

Cheers, brother!!

Ken

 

[highrolla7]

agreed, its the people who attend the launches, not the organization. I am with TRA because thats the local club. Flying rockets was my main attraction, not which organization to join. In the end, both get you what you want, rockets and rocket buddies!

 

[WillCarney]

Sometimes you join what group you need to. For instance I
joined Tripoli just before NAR began Level 3 certifications and
stayed as a member because of EX now since NAR does not do
that.

I personally am a member of several clubs. While the Champaign
ILL club "Central Illinois Aerospace" will always be my starting
club it's a NAR section only. I did my L1 and L2 certs at the CIA
launches. The PARS club in Peoria that I am a member is a Tripoli
club and we fly generally bigger rockets with EX as well as
commercial stuff. I still fly with the CIA club and recently won
several first place events during our last contests. The CIA
club does not fly really large rockets that often but that's ok too.


What it really comes down to is where do you like to fly and
whom do you like to have fun with.

I fly all sizes and fly them with all my local clubs, regardless if
their TRA or NAR sections.

William

 

[bobkrech]

NAR started in the '50s, and in the 50's all you commercially had was model rocketry. TRA started in the '60s as a high school rocketry club and grew in the 70's to include amateur rocketry and reorganized in the the 80's to promote non-professional rocketry activities beyond what was being done at NAR at the time.

The main differences are listed below.

NAR has model rocketry competitions, TRA doesn't. Somewhere between 5% to 10% of the NAR membership compete in a model rocketry contests in any given year.

TRA altitude records do not have to be set at a sanctioned competition where as NAR's do.

TRA has EX, NAR doesn't. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that ~15% to 20% of the TRA membership have flown in EX events.

Where NAR leads TRA is in national educational rocketry programs such as NARTREK (National Association of Rocketry Training Rocketeers for Experience and Knowledge) for all ages and the Team America Rocketry Challenge for teenage students.

Today there really isn't much difference between NAR and TRA. Both have significant high power programs. NAR has a slightly higher membership than TRA, but the percentages of High Power Fliers are about the same. Most folks simply choose whatever national organization their local club happens to be associated with. After a while many folks belong to several local clubs and often belong to both NAR and TRA.

Bob

 

[metalwizard]

again guys, thanx for the input, I may still be switching over to TRA I am LIII certified, but unlike some I still fly smaller stuff, heck i spent a few hundred bucks on motors for rocstock, and ni dint buy anything bigger than a "J" ... Ofcourse im saving the big stuff for LDRS in July!!!

another thing since I work for Aerotech now, the EX stuff is very interesting. as a matter of fact we just flew a test motor in 38mm . it was test for a full 75mm 6 grain we are building for LDRS!!!

 

[Fred]

Interesting debate i just wish i had a club in my area never mind the alphabet soup in the letterhead
Cheers
Fred

 

[rdbones]

Well I haven't checked this thread for a few (shame on me), and I guess I should chime in on this one.

1) Both NAR and TRA are both great organizations. Fact I am a NAR Member, and I am considering joining TRA so I have joint membership.

2) Yes NAR is more about competation - There is no doubt about that, but I think about the challange of building a rocket that uses less then 62.5 grams of propellant that reaches exactly 850' with a total flight duration of 45 seconds.

I think that is (in many ways) more difficulty than building a prefab kit and stuffing an "M" in the aft end and certifying L3. (sorry if I am ruffling your feathers).

3) Does NAR cater to LPR and MPR - YES does it stll embrace HPR - YES. Is there a place for both in the organization - YES.
Does NAR do a better job of promoting HPR than TRA does of promoting LPR and MPR some could argue yes (Look at the TRA header on their website ("Welcome to High Power Rocketry")

Are both organization worthy of your membership dollars - YES but take a look at where you want to go in the hobby. I still fly MPR and some LPR stuff. I work with the local 4H Club with LPR and they are considering a TARC team next year ( they said that they want t get more experience first - but they are still trying to et the TARC goals this year).

TRA does more with the EX - an area that I am gaining interest in. One reason thatI am considering joining.

So that is my $0.02 worth - sorry for ranting but I feel that both are great organizations in their own right !

 

[wwattles]

To revisit a topic covered in the original post, we need to remember that Sport Rocketry, unlike many of the "slicks" we see in the market checkout lanes and bookstores, does not have a dedicated staff of writers and/or freelancers who get paid to go out to events, take pictures and write articles. Nearly all of the articles in Sport Rocketry (and I'm guessing other rocket mags as well) come from average folks (non-journalists) who take the time to write up an article, gather some good pictures, and submit the package to NAR for inclusion into the magazine.

That being said, if anyone wants to see their event covered, talk to the event organizer and find out if someone is already planning to do a story. If not, volunteer, and get some folks to help you (taking pictures, gathering info, getting names/flight info on pics you want to submit).

As a NAR member, I see Sport Rocketry as OUR magazine, and am hoping to work with my local club to make sure that some of the things we do are covered in the future.

WW

 

[kelltym88]

Do I sense a merger here? I mean really, with both orginizations so close, and working together against BATFE, it just seems the logical step is to combine the two, and then EVERYONE will be part of the same, unified, orginization. Then this petty bickering can stop. (I mean that in good way, I'm not pissed or anything.)

As has been said, I'm in it for the people I know and get to meet. That's half the enjoyment. It's like a family reunion, only more than once a year. I don't care if you're NAR, TRA, ABC, XYZ, whatever. And I don't care if your flying an Alpha or an Armaggedon, what binds us together is we got rockets, baby.


Mark, buddy, we need to talk.

 

[troj]

Originally posted by wwattles
To revisit a topic covered in the original post, we need to remember that Sport Rocketry, unlike many of the "slicks" we see in the market checkout lanes and bookstores, does not have a dedicated staff of writers and/or freelancers who get paid to go out to events, take pictures and write articles. Nearly all of the articles in Sport Rocketry (and I'm guessing other rocket mags as well) come from average folks (non-journalists) who take the time to write up an article, gather some good pictures, and submit the package to NAR for inclusion into the magazine.

That's very much true for all of the magazines, except possibly Launch.

There are three good magazines (leaving Launch out, as I haven't seen it) and all will gladly accept your submissions. "I don't write well" isn't an excuse -- pair up with someone who does; you provide the content, and let the other person help by editing it before you submit.

-Kevin