How can I start a rocket motor company?

[Kayboku]

In Australia it is virtually impossible to get motors above a G.
What would it actually take to get a hobby rocket motor company off the ground?

List all the hoops, licences, complexities, and anything you can think of related to it.

I'm thinking make motors from G to O. Keep it simple. Drive with them to the launch days around the country and sell them at launch days.
No exporting, no military use, purely just hobby rockets.

 

[jackiboi_11]

Im pretty sure that would be hard to do because you probably would need to get the propellants imported and depending on the demand for rocket motors in Australia i'm not sure how well that would do. But i'm no expert or anything thats just my ideas.

 

[prfesser]

How stringent are the regulations for importing a large number of hobby rocket motors? Is there a break point at, say, 500 or 5000 motors for resale, where the import fees become manageable? That would likely mean a large up-front investment.

Making propellant yourself is almost certainly a non-starter. I know nothing in particular about related regulations in Australia but they're certain to be more stringent than in the US. And here in 'murica the propellant in question has to undergo tests that run around $10k. For each propellant.

Freewheeling my lame-brain: I don't know whether getting a license from, say, Aerotech, to make their WL or BT or whatever as "Aerotech AUS" might be practical. Whereas their propellants have already been tested, albeit by a reputable US lab, there could be some decrease in required testing in AUS. Or whether it'd be possible to import pre-made AT/CTI/whomever propellants, and construct motors from them. Though that might be as expensive as importing complete motors.

 

[Rschub]

The best way to make a small fortune in [insert hobby here] is to start with a large fortune.

 

[mikec]

In Australia it is virtually impossible to get motors above a G.

I know very little about it, but there seem to be several TRA prefectures operating in Australia and flying high power, so it doesn't seem to be completely impossible.

I presume that you can fly EX but selling the motors for profit would require them to be commercially certified, which as others have said can be somewhat costly.

 

[manixFan]

I beta-tested motors for a start-up company that made single-use motors. There are many regulatory issues involved, almost none of which may be applicable to what is required in Australia. But I can tell you the cost of meeting those was not insignificant, and that was before any motors were made for sale. But based on the situation here in the U.S., the first thing I would do is see if you can get the chemicals required at a cost that would allow you to make the motors at a competitive price. Unless you can source AP and HTPB in quantity at a reasonable cost, there's not a lot of point going forward.

And in my experience, if you are asking on a hobby forum how to start a complex manufacturing business, that does not bode well for the level of expertise it will take to start such a business. No offense meant at all, but after owning a business for 30 years, I've found that folks who have no prior business experience (in a highly technical field) are likely going to be overwhelmed at the level of complexity starting a business that requires lots of regulatory compliance. Not meant to discourage you at all, but just a reality check on expectations.

Your best bet is to find someone locally with experience in a similar technical manufacturing business who will mentor you through the startup process.


Tony

 

[mh9162013]

You're asking a legal/regulatory question. So go talk to a lawyer.

 

[techrat]

Step Number One: Lawyer. All the regulatory hurdles of Australia start with legal counsel. Not to mention that to protect yourself from liability as well, you need to incorporate. Then your lawyer needs to fill out the needed paperwork for your company to handle/manufacture explosives. Whether you want to admit it or not, if you're making high power rocket motors, you are making explosives.

Step Number Two: If you've watched the BPS space Youtube videos on making your own motors, you'll see that he's essentially making explosive cookie-dough and you need the equipment to churn that stuff properly so it's very very consistent. You also need to remove all the air-bubbles because air bubbles cause bad things to happen.

Step Number Three: You've got to test your motors and have them certified that they produce the impulse, thrust and come with whatever delay and ejection charge you are claiming they have. And assuming you've jumped through all these hoops, and you're working on this full time, 7 days a week, after a year you might be able to sell motors.

Seems simple enough, yes?

 

[MikeT]

No clue about the laws governing this in Australia.

 

[AeroTech]

Step number 4: Hazmat testing and shipping approvals. Here in the U.S. it can cost $25,000 or more per motor or propellant type. Yes, you need this even if you are only transporting motors to launches yourself.

Step number 5: General business liability, products liability and business interruption insurance, because even if you’re incorporated, you’re going to get sued and risk losing your assets. And eventually you’re going to have an industrial accident that may involve death, injury and extreme property damage. Here in the U.S. it can cost $50,000 or more per year.

Step number 6: Inventory. You are likely going to need about $1/2 million to properly fund raw materials, work in process and finished goods.

Step number 7, 8, 9…

 

[Hobie1dog]

OP, have you abandoned the idea of doing this after reading the last few posts?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

It seems like whatever the costs and regulatory hurdles are for importing and selling manufactured and certified motors, they have to be much worse for manufacturing motors for sale yourself. And the idea you could support a motor manufacturing business by driving around to launches and selling motors seems unlikely.

 

[A-ron]

OP, have you abandoned the idea of doing this after reading the last few posts?

Devoured by the red tape monster, he was.

 

[shockie]

You can't. At least not in this country unless you go back in time to 1957.

 

[Art Upton]

The best way to make a small fortune in [insert hobby here] is to start with a large fortune.

This has proven true to me as well

 

[OzHybrid]

In Australia it is virtually impossible to get motors above a G.
What would it actually take to get a hobby rocket motor company off the ground?

List all the hoops, licences, complexities, and anything you can think of related to it.

I'm thinking make motors from G to O. Keep it simple. Drive with them to the launch days around the country and sell them at launch days.
No exporting, no military use, purely just hobby rockets.

The simplest approach would be to produce certified hybrids. Not using a pyro initiator. There are a few options for that.

Certification for, manufacturing of, testing, storage, manufacturing facility, start up money etc....... for solids, would be excessive for a relatively small market. Pop 25 million, land area for distribution same as US. Although with the University people coming on board to boost membership, usage has gone up. It's still relatively small numbers of motors sold so it's difficult to get a decent discount from the retail price from the US manufacturers for anyone to make a living out of importing and supporting the motor supply required here. Anyone who does it, is not going to retire on the proceeds, and storing and distributing rocket motors has a significant amount of legislation around it to increase the local costs.

Not easy. Your first step would be to talk to a local club. If you are in Sydney, come talk to NSW Rocketry. We launch at Wahlan. www.nswrocketry.org.au/

Unis are ordering up to a year in advance. If you can get people to do that, you'd only need to manufacture to order.

Good luck.

 

[OverTheTop]

It is not impossible. One company does make APCP motors in Australia.

 

[Voyager1]

In Australia it is virtually impossible to get motors above a G.
What would it actually take to get a hobby rocket motor company off the ground?

List all the hoops, licences, complexities, and anything you can think of related to it.

I'm thinking make motors from G to O. Keep it simple. Drive with them to the launch days around the country and sell them at launch days.
No exporting, no military use, purely just hobby rockets.

Ask these folk.
https://bsaero.space/You are better off taking advantage of the periodic group LPR/HPR motor orders through retailers like Bergs Hobbies.

 

[AeroTech]

You can't. At least not in this country unless you go back in time to 1957.

Or at least to the mid-‘70s.

 

[techrat]

In Australia it is virtually impossible to get motors above a G.
What would it actually take to get a hobby rocket motor company off the ground?

Personally, I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.
INSTEAD of trying to make rocket motors and sell them, you're MUCH better off trying to become an importer and reseller of already made rocket motors.

Then you don't need the factory, you need an office and a warehouse (garage) and maybe some staff to help you box/ship within your region. Maybe you should speak to Aerotech, who'd love to make some inroads into your area, and perhaps they could help you get started.

 

[Voyager1]

Personally, I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.
INSTEAD of trying to make rocket motors and sell them, you're MUCH better off trying to become an importer and reseller of already made rocket motors.

Then you don't need the factory, you need an office and a warehouse (garage) and maybe some staff to help you box/ship within your region. Maybe you should speak to Aerotech, who'd love to make some inroads into your area, and perhaps they could help you get started.

While I agree with the suggestion in theory, this probably wouldn’t survive here. Others have tried to do this in the past, but have failed to survive more than a few of years. This is a niche market here and you need to be a little more diversified than just selling rocket motors. Currently the only reliable sources are through already established hobby retailers, and probably only one of them imports HPR motors.

 

[OzHybrid]

Personally, I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.
INSTEAD of trying to make rocket motors and sell them, you're MUCH better off trying to become an importer and reseller of already made rocket motors.

Then you don't need the factory, you need an office and a warehouse (garage) and maybe some staff to help you box/ship within your region. Maybe you should speak to Aerotech, who'd love to make some inroads into your area, and perhaps they could help you get started.

Thats whats already being done.
What it means in non US locations is that costs (here) are significantly higher in real terms. The cost of shipping, import licence, etc etc has to be distributed across a much lower number of motors. This is currently pushing the unit cost of a motor into the not affordable region in Australia.
At least 2 universities here are making the move to Hybrids. So unless some way can be found to reduce costs for solid propellant, larger motors might become Hybrid here in Australia.

Simple economics.

 

[OverTheTop]

As a guide to our prices currently, take the Aerotech retail pricing you guys see and multiply it by 2.5. That is how many Aussie dollars each one costs. Once you get above the SDL (State Department License) impulse limit there is an additional fee, several thousand dollars, that would get amortised across those large motors, on top of the 2.5 factor.

 

[Banzai88]

Unless you come up with the best A#1 snake oil of rocketry and fill some newly created rocket niche, I'd say the old maxim of "Start with $2M, and soon enough you'll have $1M" applies to rocketry businesses.

 

[OzHybrid]

As a guide to our prices currently, take the Aerotech retail pricing you guys see and multiply it by 2.5. That is how many Aussie dollars each one costs. Once you get above the SDL (State Department License) impulse limit there is an additional fee, several thousand dollars, that would get amortised across those large motors, on top of the 2.5 factor.

But with the difference in price between when you want to order them and when they arrive think 3:1 Normal exchange would be 1.5 Au$:1US$
so double in real terms.

 

[cbrarick]

What you guys aren't thinking about is the bigger picture....I'm just a "B lister" in the rocket motor resale world. I serve a few clubs, do one regional launch.

BUT

my rig is a ram 3500 dually diesel, pulling a 24 foot trailer all kitted out for storing and selling rocketry. Granted, I use solar power, but all up at least 150k
inventory, inventory, inventory. Want to have 7 of each motor in your trailer? Better have around 20 all total of each motor because even here in America, supply moves slowly. I can't imagine what it must be in Australia. He'd probably wait several months, minimum for a order to make it to him. I could see $1 million USD as a realistic number.

If you really want to make motors, you need to find out the regulations, licenses and safety requirements of the government.
then you can make and design a few, and get them certified, not only by TRA or NAR (or your country's rocketry association - as Aerotech pointed out, this will cost even more money before you can sell your first one.

As far as hybrids, while I appreciate Ozhybrid's enthusiasm for hybrids, in reality they are a niche's niche. Here in America, since Judge Walton's decision, they have been relegated to a very, very small percentage of the number of rockets flown. In fact, the last 2 I've seen flown has been a "look, hybrid!" because it's such a rarity.

so, to end the rant, start with a lot of money, expect a small but steady return, but think of it as a labor of love (which is truly honorable)

JMHO

 

[OzHybrid]

What you guys aren't thinking about is the bigger picture....I'm just a "B lister" in the rocket motor resale world. I serve a few clubs, do one regional launch.

BUT

my rig is a ram 3500 dually diesel, pulling a 24 foot trailer all kitted out for storing and selling rocketry. Granted, I use solar power, but all up at least 150k
inventory, inventory, inventory. Want to have 7 of each motor in your trailer? Better have around 20 all total of each motor because even here in America, supply moves slowly. I can't imagine what it must be in Australia. He'd probably wait several months, minimum for a order to make it to him. I could see $1 million USD as a realistic number.

If you really want to make motors, you need to find out the regulations, licenses and safety requirements of the government.
then you can make and design a few, and get them certified, not only by TRA or NAR (or your country's rocketry association - as Aerotech pointed out, this will cost even more money before you can sell your first one.

As far as hybrids, while I appreciate Ozhybrid's enthusiasm for hybrids, in reality they are a niche's niche. Here in America, since Judge Walton's decision, they have been relegated to a very, very small percentage of the number of rockets flown. In fact, the last 2 I've seen flown has been a "look, hybrid!" because it's such a rarity.

so, to end the rant, start with a lot of money, expect a small but steady return, but think of it as a labor of love (which is truly honorable)

JMHO

It may be possible for someone in the US to do that. However, imagine double your costs. Fraction of the sales. Not doable in Oz. You'd need a second or third avenue for sales. And you couldn't afford the cost of diesel here for your truck......

 

[cbrarick]

I'm just posting the road map. you then need the launches to support it. Good luck with that! it all comes down to location, location, location

 

[OzHybrid]

Our club has 3 high power launches per year. There are roughly 5 clubs in Australia.(might be 4) distributed across a land area almost the exact same as the US. I hope you can do the economics of manufacturing maths in your head........
However....... if an existing Australian fireworks manufacturer could be persuaded to take manufacturing motor reloads on with help from the rocketry community it could possibly, on a good day, not make a loss. Maybe.

 

[cerving]

$2.5 AUD to $1 USD? That's nuts... no wonder the first ones that jump on our sales are the Aussies.

At least shipping has gotten better. During Covid, we stopped shipping First Class because stuff wasn't getting delivered... we could only ship FedEx. Now we can ship First Class with some confidence that you will get it (we still can't tell you WHEN, though).