Hi I am a well experienced RC modeler mostly doing all sorts of model planes and mostly high speed such as 200mph up to and including pulse jet motors
I now wish to do a rocket motor project attached to a plane just for fun to get super fast speeds sub 300MPH probably 250 MPH for a few seconds similar in concept to
JATO jet assisted take off but better refered to as
JAMS Jet assisted max speed
Already RC model planes are regularly doing 300MPH with turbine pulse jets and DS Dynamic soaring so this project is not out to break any RC model flight speeds records which stand at 420MPH with a turbine jet motor in a dive
So now I am looking for any PRACTICAL solution to liquid fuel reactor(rocket) motors
MAJOR requirements fairly cheap and cheerful even at the risk of much lower power outputs
The project so far
Attach a suitable 4 to 6kg reactor motor to a modified F5D ~1 meter ~(3 foot ) wing span RC model plane for fun to get small very fast runs reaching speeds of 250MPH plus for a few seconds.
Requirements motor run times of some 3 to 5 seconds ideally with ability to PRECISION light up in flight and PRECISION relight several times making say 4 motor runs of 5 seconds each and glide around in between motor burns and electric motor with folding prop or bungee launch take off or both to get to full height to commence first reactor motor runs
The research to date eliminates most off the shelf rocketry solutions for various reasons
The pulse jet solutions is not what I wish to do in this time as the pulse motors are very large for the KG push and cant be easily relight in mid air
Steam reactor power solutions look to be too heavy in this time
but if somebody can prove other wise I am all ears as it looks super cheap
great solution for model cars but too heavy for model planes is my guess
CO2 bottle solutions look to be way too heavy and real low power so not looking practical
Most solid fuels have in-exact firing times eg. non PRECISION and for multi fire ups would require several rocket motors and AP fuel reloadables are crazy money so not practical very difficult to import and a nightmare for all sorts of reasons
Gun powder black powder off the shelf solutions are tiny tiny power like A or B motors and this project is closer to F or G or H or bigger motors and gunpowder large motors dont work as the large grains break up too easy making motor runs fizzle and pop and not work and is mayby to low power
The candy rocket solutions look cheap but again reliable PRECISION light up issues and low power probably make it most likly not a practical solution
Hybrid look to a problem for PRECISION ignition and also they require 9 parts nitric oxide NO2 for one part fuel (epoxy plastic mix ) and nitro oxide NO2 looks to be expensive in Europe difficult to obtain and looks to be fairly heavy and the ready made kits out there are mad money so dosnt look to practical
Liquid solutions preferably would be mono props but those fuels have issues
The best solution Hydrogen peroxide at 98% down to barely usable 80% types are impossible to source in Europe generally and as I live and work all around Europe I prefer to use easy to obtain fuels and hydrogen peroxide H2O2 are extremely caustic (similar to acid affects ) so not practical for cost and protective clothing issues
Nitromethane ( 99% nitromethane 1% methanol standard issue non shock sensitive type )is fairly easy obtainable in larger model plane shops or LHS but sooooooo wicked expensive at often a lot more than ~50 euro ~$80 ~£30 for 5 liters ( ~1.2 usa) gal and each flight of 20 seconds motor run would probably be 1/2 liter 500cc (~ pint) making it ~5 euros ~$7 ~ £3 euro a 20 second fight or ~15 euros ~$20 ~£10 a minute engine run time
As nitro methane fuel is nearly all oxygen and nitrogen molecule it requires 9 times the same fuel as methanol fuel solutions and the worst is its nearly impossible to ignite Nitromethane without extreme pressures and large powerful spark ignition systems and you still really need some outside oxidizer fuel component not much but some approx two parts air to one part fuel or 0.6 parts LOX to one part fuel to get clean burn
Thus probably making reactor motor very complex and most likely not to be a practical solution ???
but is looking to be a very best solution of the bad choices to be made
nitromethane's low oxegen requirements might allow for simpler heavier compressed air solutions
Other fuels like gasoline (petrol)and deseil kerosene all have no oxygen in the fuel and require to carry some form of oxident such as LOX (liquid oxygen) with the complexity and probable high weight issues of LOX but probably not practical as supply of LOX are tricky and looking to be probably very expensive
Other solutions like mix Nitric acid red humorous with kerosene agggghh really not practical
Hydrazine also way to difficult to get and extremely toxic really not practical
Alcohols fuels like ETHANOL METHANOL have some 50% of the molecule as oxygen so thereby needing half the oxygen to supply the fuel(but you need double the fuel compared to petrols fuels) but saving some weight from less LOX but probably not practical as supply of LOX are tricky and probably expensive
The better solutions for me would be to find a simplex way to oxygenate the fuel without LOX if a solution exists
one theory I have is to dissolve KNO3 saltpeter into methanol
salt peter is tricky to get but not impossible
also much more tricky to get is ammonia percaltes but possible if it would work better than saltpeter KNO3
Methanol is easy and fairly cheap at often more than ~15 euro ~$20 ~£10 for 5 liters to get from LHS
I cant find out from research or inquiry"s to umpteen forums will mixing these two components KNO3 saltpeter make the methanol fuel shock sensitive or even explosively unstable imeadiatly or over time span like days whatever
What I do know from research is mixing saltpeter KNO3 to nitro methane will make nitromethane shock sensitive so that is definitly a non starter to use fuel which has any nitromethane added :no:
I am assuming that even if salt peter KNO3 or some such other suitable chemical is mixxed with fuel like methanol there exists the probabilty that there will still be a need for extra oxegen from somewhere else
I was hoping then to use nitro oxide in preference to LOX as it looks cheaper and easier to use than LOX when using small amounts but LOX might be cheaper in large amounts if I am forced to do methanol LOX solutions
Basically once I can solve the fuel oxidation issues i can start to construct a simplex reactor (rocket ) motor to suit the fuel
Mayby somebody who knows the real engineering issues of fuels and motor components might have practical solutions
I shall assume for practical purposes that I can pump the fuel into the motor using simple air pressure from a bike pump into a suitable container such as RC undercarrage air supply tin can or some spring loaded syringe solution whatever but pumping mayby 25cc or one onze a second into reator motor wont be so easy without weighty solutions
I have lots of electric motors brushless lightweight and very powerfull that could be press ganged into driving a fuel pump normaly used in tool boxxes to pump RC methanol model fuels at ~1 onze 25cc per second and lightweight lipo cells that can also drive the motors if nessary but suspect other methods would be lighter
The first trials will be done on RC car on the ground to test the princibles before becoming airborne
Any realy really good ideas shoot but spare me the kerozene turbines and ram jets and pulse jet and expensive AP re-loadables solutions
Also the legal requirements are covered in this is not a rocketry project but a enhaced reactor plane project similar to pulse jet or turbine aircraft and so fits inside the RC plane definitions and would not be restriced by the usual certifation of rocketry where the rocket power is applied to a much smaller craft and the purpose of this reator project s to get low and level flights not vertical flight attributes like rocketry
The rocket motor itself I imangine and hope to keep costs down will probably be some form of model plane exhast pipe mayby tuned pipe or muffler with rear end opened up or suitably modified whatever
becuase of that the metal would probably melt if the engine runs exceeded a few seconds but hopefully would be cheap eneogh and sturdy eneogh for those few seconds followed with a 15 second to 30 second glide around to cool things off and then relight again but I am open to other ideas
I will probably opt to use glow plug with onboard power supply to keep glow lighting driven from one of the RC channels of which my very top-end upmarket RC unit has 12 channels to use
Several thousand replies to date on this issue all strongly THINK that mixxing KNO3 will make methanol explosive but not one once of evidence or imperical facts supplied
so I think that adding to that opinion without facts to back it up is yet another non imperical awnswer
so to save you writing this statement just use the party wave smilys cartoons instead
arty: which is ( party ) and another : ........ : with party in between so you can see it as i cant find a simple explosion smily
JATO
I now wish to do a rocket motor project attached to a plane just for fun to get super fast speeds sub 300MPH probably 250 MPH for a few seconds similar in concept to
JATO jet assisted take off but better refered to as
JAMS Jet assisted max speed
Already RC model planes are regularly doing 300MPH with turbine pulse jets and DS Dynamic soaring so this project is not out to break any RC model flight speeds records which stand at 420MPH with a turbine jet motor in a dive
So now I am looking for any PRACTICAL solution to liquid fuel reactor(rocket) motors
MAJOR requirements fairly cheap and cheerful even at the risk of much lower power outputs
The project so far
Attach a suitable 4 to 6kg reactor motor to a modified F5D ~1 meter ~(3 foot ) wing span RC model plane for fun to get small very fast runs reaching speeds of 250MPH plus for a few seconds.
Requirements motor run times of some 3 to 5 seconds ideally with ability to PRECISION light up in flight and PRECISION relight several times making say 4 motor runs of 5 seconds each and glide around in between motor burns and electric motor with folding prop or bungee launch take off or both to get to full height to commence first reactor motor runs
The research to date eliminates most off the shelf rocketry solutions for various reasons
The pulse jet solutions is not what I wish to do in this time as the pulse motors are very large for the KG push and cant be easily relight in mid air
Steam reactor power solutions look to be too heavy in this time
but if somebody can prove other wise I am all ears as it looks super cheap
great solution for model cars but too heavy for model planes is my guess
CO2 bottle solutions look to be way too heavy and real low power so not looking practical
Most solid fuels have in-exact firing times eg. non PRECISION and for multi fire ups would require several rocket motors and AP fuel reloadables are crazy money so not practical very difficult to import and a nightmare for all sorts of reasons
Gun powder black powder off the shelf solutions are tiny tiny power like A or B motors and this project is closer to F or G or H or bigger motors and gunpowder large motors dont work as the large grains break up too easy making motor runs fizzle and pop and not work and is mayby to low power
The candy rocket solutions look cheap but again reliable PRECISION light up issues and low power probably make it most likly not a practical solution
Hybrid look to a problem for PRECISION ignition and also they require 9 parts nitric oxide NO2 for one part fuel (epoxy plastic mix ) and nitro oxide NO2 looks to be expensive in Europe difficult to obtain and looks to be fairly heavy and the ready made kits out there are mad money so dosnt look to practical
Liquid solutions preferably would be mono props but those fuels have issues
The best solution Hydrogen peroxide at 98% down to barely usable 80% types are impossible to source in Europe generally and as I live and work all around Europe I prefer to use easy to obtain fuels and hydrogen peroxide H2O2 are extremely caustic (similar to acid affects ) so not practical for cost and protective clothing issues
Nitromethane ( 99% nitromethane 1% methanol standard issue non shock sensitive type )is fairly easy obtainable in larger model plane shops or LHS but sooooooo wicked expensive at often a lot more than ~50 euro ~$80 ~£30 for 5 liters ( ~1.2 usa) gal and each flight of 20 seconds motor run would probably be 1/2 liter 500cc (~ pint) making it ~5 euros ~$7 ~ £3 euro a 20 second fight or ~15 euros ~$20 ~£10 a minute engine run time
As nitro methane fuel is nearly all oxygen and nitrogen molecule it requires 9 times the same fuel as methanol fuel solutions and the worst is its nearly impossible to ignite Nitromethane without extreme pressures and large powerful spark ignition systems and you still really need some outside oxidizer fuel component not much but some approx two parts air to one part fuel or 0.6 parts LOX to one part fuel to get clean burn
Thus probably making reactor motor very complex and most likely not to be a practical solution ???
but is looking to be a very best solution of the bad choices to be made
nitromethane's low oxegen requirements might allow for simpler heavier compressed air solutions
Other fuels like gasoline (petrol)and deseil kerosene all have no oxygen in the fuel and require to carry some form of oxident such as LOX (liquid oxygen) with the complexity and probable high weight issues of LOX but probably not practical as supply of LOX are tricky and looking to be probably very expensive
Other solutions like mix Nitric acid red humorous with kerosene agggghh really not practical
Hydrazine also way to difficult to get and extremely toxic really not practical
Alcohols fuels like ETHANOL METHANOL have some 50% of the molecule as oxygen so thereby needing half the oxygen to supply the fuel(but you need double the fuel compared to petrols fuels) but saving some weight from less LOX but probably not practical as supply of LOX are tricky and probably expensive
The better solutions for me would be to find a simplex way to oxygenate the fuel without LOX if a solution exists
one theory I have is to dissolve KNO3 saltpeter into methanol
salt peter is tricky to get but not impossible
also much more tricky to get is ammonia percaltes but possible if it would work better than saltpeter KNO3
Methanol is easy and fairly cheap at often more than ~15 euro ~$20 ~£10 for 5 liters to get from LHS
I cant find out from research or inquiry"s to umpteen forums will mixing these two components KNO3 saltpeter make the methanol fuel shock sensitive or even explosively unstable imeadiatly or over time span like days whatever
What I do know from research is mixing saltpeter KNO3 to nitro methane will make nitromethane shock sensitive so that is definitly a non starter to use fuel which has any nitromethane added :no:
I am assuming that even if salt peter KNO3 or some such other suitable chemical is mixxed with fuel like methanol there exists the probabilty that there will still be a need for extra oxegen from somewhere else
I was hoping then to use nitro oxide in preference to LOX as it looks cheaper and easier to use than LOX when using small amounts but LOX might be cheaper in large amounts if I am forced to do methanol LOX solutions
Basically once I can solve the fuel oxidation issues i can start to construct a simplex reactor (rocket ) motor to suit the fuel
Mayby somebody who knows the real engineering issues of fuels and motor components might have practical solutions
I shall assume for practical purposes that I can pump the fuel into the motor using simple air pressure from a bike pump into a suitable container such as RC undercarrage air supply tin can or some spring loaded syringe solution whatever but pumping mayby 25cc or one onze a second into reator motor wont be so easy without weighty solutions
I have lots of electric motors brushless lightweight and very powerfull that could be press ganged into driving a fuel pump normaly used in tool boxxes to pump RC methanol model fuels at ~1 onze 25cc per second and lightweight lipo cells that can also drive the motors if nessary but suspect other methods would be lighter
The first trials will be done on RC car on the ground to test the princibles before becoming airborne
Any realy really good ideas shoot but spare me the kerozene turbines and ram jets and pulse jet and expensive AP re-loadables solutions
Also the legal requirements are covered in this is not a rocketry project but a enhaced reactor plane project similar to pulse jet or turbine aircraft and so fits inside the RC plane definitions and would not be restriced by the usual certifation of rocketry where the rocket power is applied to a much smaller craft and the purpose of this reator project s to get low and level flights not vertical flight attributes like rocketry
The rocket motor itself I imangine and hope to keep costs down will probably be some form of model plane exhast pipe mayby tuned pipe or muffler with rear end opened up or suitably modified whatever
becuase of that the metal would probably melt if the engine runs exceeded a few seconds but hopefully would be cheap eneogh and sturdy eneogh for those few seconds followed with a 15 second to 30 second glide around to cool things off and then relight again but I am open to other ideas
I will probably opt to use glow plug with onboard power supply to keep glow lighting driven from one of the RC channels of which my very top-end upmarket RC unit has 12 channels to use
Several thousand replies to date on this issue all strongly THINK that mixxing KNO3 will make methanol explosive but not one once of evidence or imperical facts supplied
so I think that adding to that opinion without facts to back it up is yet another non imperical awnswer
so to save you writing this statement just use the party wave smilys cartoons instead
arty: which is ( party ) and another : ........ : with party in between so you can see it as i cant find a simple explosion smily
JATO