Clustering the wires...

[RocketManDan]

for multiple engines. I looked at a diagram that came with my 4 engine clip whip that explained how to twist the wires together on a 3 engine cluster configuration and then I read somewhere. I think on TRF that showed how to clustered 3 engines, but only used two leads to connect them, eliminating the use of clips whips. Is one way better than another as far as reliability? I'll be using an Interlock controller hooked up to my truck battery. I was just curious if alternate wiring connections can be used for 4, 5 and higher number of engines...just curious.

Also I'm assuming you can use the latter method if you were using the QUEST Q2G2 igniters.

Thoughts, concerns??

 

[Pantherjon]

I use lead extenders on most of my clusters..Others that are close enough I twist the igniter leads together..Really easy to the latter with Quest Q2G2 ones...See how I have 6 motors wired in the image-which as you see is a combination of both Estes and Quest motors..So far I have 100% success in ignition of all motors.

 

[edwinshap1]

If you're launching by yourself a clip whip is fine, but otherwise you'd have to run back to get the clip whip after you launch.

You can use other wires as extenders, but you'll have to check the total resistance in the wire to make sure it's still low enough for the car to set off.


Q2G2s won't be any problem to set off using a car battery with an interlock.

Just make sure you wire in parallel so if one goes off, the rest can still ignite.

 

[Verna]

There are many things to consider when clustering like power supply, clean clips, distance between engines, etc. I suggest trying both methods and seeing what works best for you. Both have their good and bad points. There are people here that will tell you NEVER use clip whips. On the other hand, after 100+ cluster launches with up to 5 engines on the first stage, I ONLY use clip whips.

Eventually, it will come down to what you like to use. Try them both. Go with what YOU are comfortable with.

Verna
www.vernarockets.com

 

[GDJ]

There are many things to consider when clustering like power supply, clean clips, distance between engines, etc. I suggest trying both methods and seeing what works best for you. Both have their good and bad points. There are people here that will tell you NEVER use clip whips. On the other hand, after 100+ cluster launches with up to 5 engines on the first stage, I ONLY use clip whips.

Eventually, it will come down to what you like to use. Try them both. Go with what YOU are comfortable with.

Verna

I agree. I tried the extensions, twisting the lead wires themselves together (PITA!) and I made my own clip whips.

Clip whips for me.

 

[RocketManDan]

Hey everyone thank you so much for your advice. I think I will try the clip whips first. I have a launch with the Boy Scouts in a couple weeks and if things go well I might consider teaching some rocket building classes once or twice a month with them. Just basic stuff to start with and then move up from there....

I have to order some Q2G2 igniters, but Hobbylinc is currently out of them at this time. I need to check around. I already order some engines.

 

[bjphoenix]

Depending on the geometry of the rocket it might be possible and advantageous to do a combination of twisting wires and a clip whip. So igniter leads for 2 motors could twist together and be connected with 2 clips, and igniter leads for the other 2 motors could twist together and be connected with 2 more clips. So instead of clips whips with 4 clips each, you could use clip whips with 2 clips each.

 

[Fe Dude]

A2zhobbies has them. I have ordered from them a few times. No problems at all.

https://www.a2zhobbies.com/Q2G2-3-5-Igniter-6-p/que-7024.htm

 

[RocketManDan]

I tried placing an order with them online and I ended up canceling because after 3 weeks my order still didn't ship. Now it's possible maybe some of the items I ordered may not have been in the warehouse, but I think it should have been noted on the website. I would like to place an order, but I need the igniters by the 11th. I might go ahead and call them first and find out the time frame.

 

[troj]

You can also get them direct from Quest. They've always been quick to ship, in my experience.

 

[qquake2k]

With my two motor clusters, the motors are close enough to twist the leads from the Estes igniters together as is. With three motors, I solder extension wires on the igniters. Both methods have worked 100% for me. I haven't tried Q2G2's for clusters, but have heard nothing but good about them.

 

[RocketManDan]

Hey QQUAKE those are some sweet rockets!

Thanks for the insight. I used the ESTES igniters for two engines clusters and have had no issues. Never used them for 3 and above clusters.

 

[qquake2k]

Hey QQUAKE those are some sweet rockets!

Thanks for the insight. I used the ESTES igniters for two engines clusters and have had no issues. Never used them for 3 and above clusters.

Thanks for the compliment! The first one is my scratch built Double Pumper. The second is a Mercury Engineering kit, the Integrator.

 

[RocketManDan]

Mercury makes some nice kits. I also like the quality of their parts. I might do a couple scratch builds using their parts...

 

[qquake2k]

Mercury makes some nice kits. I also like the quality of their parts. I might do a couple scratch builds using their parts...

The Hijacker is about my favorite kit. It was my first true MPR. With the features it has, the price can't be beat. I use their components for a lot of my scratch builds, too.

 

[RocketManDan]

Good looking rocket. I like the engine mount kits from Mercury. From their website they look well made.

 

[qquake2k]

Good looking rocket. I like the engine mount kits from Mercury. From their website they look well made.

The motor mounts in my Mercury Hijacker and Integrator were good. I used one of their 2x24mm motor mounts in my scratch built Double Pumper. Haven't had problems with any of them.

 

[Micromeister]

Everyone has their favorite method. Because I started doing this back with the OLD style Estes igniters before solars. I leaned to use a Relay system with multi clips alternating to ensure positive contact. Twisting a bunch of wire together can cause problems by not getting proper contact with the controller lead clips.
Heres the layouts I've been using for almost 30 years. They haven't failed me yet on 2 to 12 motor clusters

Do bear in mind no matter how well a set of clip whips are made they are only an extension of you control system...they just make connecting the leads a bit easier. The should be machanically fastened as close to the power source as practical, to ensure the MOST current is conducted directly to the igniter head wires. Q2g2's make this a lot easier with their extreamly low current needs but they still need solid connections.

 

[RocketManDan]

That's a nice looking set up! I'm just getting into clustering, but maybe later I'll get a relay system. How much do they cost?

 

[Micromeister]

That's a nice looking set up! I'm just getting into clustering, but maybe later I'll get a relay system. How much do they cost?

I believe you can put together the Range Box relay setup for about 22-25 dollars.
The other Major important purchase will be the Gel-Cell battery to drive you system which can run for 20.00 to 130.00 dollars depending on how much power you need. For most 3 to 6 motor clusters..particularly now with Q2g2 igniters a Hobbico 7amp Gel-Cell runs about 20 dollars. \
To Recharge your new Gel-Cell a 1000ma (1amp) 120/12volt wall adapter can be converted into a charger for less then 15.00 or you can buy a very nice little Trickle charger from Harbor Freight for about 12-15 dollars depending on sale time

If your doing lots of Big clusters it might be advisable to look into a 40amp/contact DPDT Power relay they start about 20 bucks and can run to about 45 bucks. I've seen folks using Hi amp Auto solid state relays but have no experience with them so can't offer any guidence. I've been using the same 40amp power relays for 30some years. my little Range box relay get's a workout every now and then at club launches when they forget or don't want to dig out the bigger relay. it's been lighting 2 to 6 motor clusters for about 6 years now.

 

[RocketManDan]

When I start flying more clusters and bigger rockets I will invest in one. I only have a few rockets that have clusters. two rockets have 2 and 3 engine 18mm cluster and the other is a 3x24. So for now I'll use the whips with the Q2G2 igniters, but I would like to get more involved in building the clustered rockets, both black powder and composite.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

My 3" Ultimate 24 on 7 E9-6's. Q2G2 igniters. The regular ones are just long enough to twist them all together and use a single pair of clips. I used the straws that come with the igniters rather than the Estes plugs.

 

[RocketManDan]

My 3" Ultimate 24 on 7 E9-6's. Q2G2 igniters. The regular ones are just long enough to twist them all together and use a single pair of clips. I used the straws that come with the igniters rather than the Estes plugs.

That's awesome!!

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Here's a composite cluster (98/10240 & 8 38/720, all EX) This is my Motoreater Deluxe, last flown in 2001.

 

[RocketManDan]

Here's a composite cluster (98/10240 & 8 38/720, all EX) This is my Motoreater Deluxe, last flown in 2001.

That's just insane!!!!

 

[qquake2k]

Here's a composite cluster (98/10240 & 8 38/720, all EX) This is my Motoreater Deluxe, last flown in 2001.

That is absolutely ridiculous. I like it!