ACT's and SAT's

[Peartree]

Employers don't care about test scores, but they do care about what you do in college and where you go. Think of it as a necessary evil. Do your best, but don't lose sleep over it.

There are some "high end" employers who care where you go for some specific degrees. Engineers from MIT are highly regarded in some circles, but a Civil engineer from MIT applying for a job at the state DOT isn't all that far ahead of someone from Ohio State.

A law degree from Harvard or Yale carries some weight but chemistry isn't what they're known for.

Our daughter is studying nursing. There are some very expensive schools (including my alma mater) that she could have gone to, but a degree in nursing from Kent State will get her a job in the same facilities that the more expensive degrees will, for close to a quarter of million dollars less in tuition.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

They only matter for FRESHMAN college admission... after that it doesn't matter anymore. I don't even think they are considered for transfer admissions.

 

[The_Lone_Beagle]

Just adding my $.02...the tests are important, but not for great reasons...if a school gets 10,000 applications, which ones do they read, and which ones do they just dump in the trash? They'll look at the applications with the highest test scores, and work with those...basically, they are a weed out tool.

I haven't kept up with the research, but I'll assume that the old findings hold, which is that the best single predictor of freshman year grades are the SATs or ACTs. (Guess what the single best predictor of sophomore year grades are? drum roll...freshman year grades!).

In a nutshell, the college you are applying to has no idea what a 4.0 at one high school means to a 4.78 at another high school...the tests thus provide a "standardized" way to compare one applicant to another.

Now, having said that, you can likely influence your score, simply by being familiar with the test question formats, and practicing completing the test questions while observing a time limit. As pointed out above, the old analogy questions ("A is to B, as C is to ?") would throw people whon had never seen them before. My 10th grade teacher had us practice them, and once you did a couple, you got the point (and then could do them rapidly on the test day, and thus get a higher score).

However, I would highly recommend not to bother cramming for the test...you won't remember all that stuff you learn at the last minute. Your time would better be spent, in my opinion, doing several practice tests, learning about the types of questions, and then doing some relaxation exercises so you are ready to perform your best on the day it counts.

And if you think the ACTs suck, get ready...if you want to go to grad school, you will have to take a grad school test, like the GREs, GMATs, or MCATs...and likely there will be other tests as well. Looking back, my scores were fairly high, and helped me get into a good college as well as getting a scholarship, so again, I wouldn't say they aren't important, but they are not the only factor.

But for right now, the best way to eat that elephant is one bite at a time...good luck!

 

[AlnessW]

Just a question for all of you.

1. How many of you have taken these?
2. If you are looking at hiring somebody, do you ACTUALLY care about what that stupid number of a score is?
3. Do you think studying for these tests is useful?

I have been taking practice ACT's. The first one I took, I got a 25. Second one? 23. I took one today. 21.

Apparently, this means that taking practice ACT's is a waste of time to simply lower your score.


I absolutely hate them. They are simply a 3.5 hour waste of time to determine how much you have studied for them.

To answer your questions...

1. I have taken both but did a tad better on the ACT. 21 I want to say?
2. If it were ME - not even in the slightest.
3. If you want to do well, then yes - but like many have said, they really don't matter once you're accepted into a college...

I hated them too!

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I had about 1050 on my SAT, old system (2000) and about 21 on my ACT (again, old system). Not sure what they are like now.... that didn't get me into UT at first but got me into their provisional program. I was able to successfully complete that program.

I will tell you that the SAT is a REASONING test. It means they are meant to test your reasoning skills, so cramming for them is useless. What you really need to practice is reasoning. All those questions are designed to test your ability to reason. As for the math section, just get good at math. Most of it is college Algebra stuff. I actually did better in the math section than the reasoning (language) section... If you have no intention of getting into grad school it will no longer matter after high school, but I suspect those tests would prepare you for the grad school exams as well.

 

[FredA]

Colleges are very competitive these days.....the good ones.
Those that want the scores, use the scores.
A good score can mean anything from acceptance to money - so if the school wants the scores, it makes senses the better the scores the more likely they will admit you.
Beyond college admission, the scores are worth little more than [weird] bragging rights.

My daughter makes good money tutoring for these test.

 

[Eat, sleep, and Fly]

Something you need to remember, is colleges are bringing in people, not numbers. Everything boils down to money. If a school is only full of academic successes, then there will be little diversity, and little fun. Therefore, nobody would want to go there, and the school would lose money.
Schools will want to bring in a well rounded group of individuals, some who are strong academically, some who are good athletes, some who are funny, and (most importantly for you) some who have accomplished something, like rocketry. Test scores are important for the initial screening, but past that initial screening phase, they are looking at you, not numbers. Also, remember that for every average, there is a low end.

 

[doug_kosty]

My daughter is going through this right now - things are extremely competitive at the "name" schools, and even the "name -1" schools. We know lots of kids with good state ( 4.2 GPA, 2100+ SAT, 30+ ACT) that are gathering lots of rejections - and these are not just academic grinds. Most participate in a limited number of EC activities and are really involved - not just engaged in resume polishing.

While my daughter ( 2180 / 33/ 4.3 ) has fine options, others that are similar do not. My conclusion is that demand exceeds supply for seats - exacerbated by the ease of applying to many schools. Just injects a lot of noise into the system and creates an admissions arms race.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

4.2 out of what? For a 6 point system (which is what my high school uses) it's not all that high. I believe mine was like 4.3 or so. But then again my high school was very competitive and a lot of people there got accepted to ivy league schools.

Most top state schools (main campus of state level schools for example) that are in the top 50 are going to have around 40% acceptance rate. The higher ones like UCLA has around 10% acceptance... but a lot of UC schools are extremely selective anyways. Some even made readmission competitive (I kid you not)...

 

[doug_kosty]

4.3 on a 4.0 scale - AP classes only weighted 5.0, most classes are not weighted. UC calculates their own GPA and competely disregards the GPA reported by the schools since there is such a wide variation - e.g. your school's 6 point scale. (At least that is what we were told at various times.) For reference - she did get a couple of B's. Literally a couple.

I wish the schools would stop the nonsense of having different grading scales. At least within the state of CA, the universities are on to the game - hence the need to calculate the GPA on their own. Seems as though there is a strange arms race in the calculation of GPA - kinda silly in my opinion. Given that the schools assess rigor, and how the student is challenging themselves in the light of the classes that are offered in their high school, having all of these different scales makes no sense.

Just another piece of the magnificently broken education system.

 

[AlnessW]

Just another piece of the magnificently broken education system.

+1 to that - I graduated high school with a 3.2 GPA or so which didn't seem to impress anyone.

 

[Tronman]

While employers generally don't care about those test results, many colleges do care, so it's worth doing well on them. There are courses you can take specifically designed to up your score. They helped my step-daughter somewhat. But test scores aren't all it takes to get into the best colleges. Volunteer community service like working in your local library or senior center is also looked upon favorably. Also, interning is a good idea. My step-daughter interned at a small alternative fuel research company during her last two years of high school and I'm certain that it was very helpful in her getting accepted as a student of chemical engineering to the only university she was interested in.