(2) F-104 Builds one mild and one wild

[hornet driver]

not sure what's going on with the pictures let's try this-

 

[hornet driver]

So I've been looking at the 104 and something just didn't seem right. I couldn't put my finger on it but it just looked a little short coupled. I figured it was just the unfinished nose and went on about my business. I was going to begin to tackle the intakes today. I had previously marked the location of the intake cones. I figured I should double check the location since the intakes were going to be a huge PIA. I pulled up the drawing and magnified it to my desired setting------Much to my surprise, nothing in front of the bt cut line lined up !!! WTF !! Everything from the cut forward was short by about an inch. It seems at some point I did not magnify the image enough. This is a huge problem. At first I thought I should let it go but it threw all the CP/CG values out the door and meant adding even more weight to the shorter nose OMG !!I sat back and had a glass of wine and considered the problem. The problem was solved by re-doing the nose cone--thankfully not a total redo just some surgery--first I cut the shoulder off the cone, next I inserted a bt in the cone and cored out the foam. I then epoxied another tube into the hollow nose(this was going to happen anyway). I had some extra foam laying around so I cut a 1 inch plug and inserted it over the tube and epoxied the whole sha-bang together. After some sanding I looks a hell of a lot better and everything lines up perfect !! I did have to cut the rear turtle deck down a bit( the blue thingy).----Now I can sleep easy and move on with the project !--H

 

[AfterBurners]

nice recover

 

[burkefj]

You are right, I didn't want to say anything but it did look funny this looks much better.

My motto is "It's not a matter of not screwing up, it's how you handle your screw ups that matters"...Usually when I get to the point of throwing something out I leave it sit for a day and then always come back and fine a way to salvage it.

Frank

 

[AfterBurners]

Thought I would tackle cutting the scoop patterns onto the 2 1/8" LOC tube (54mm)

Here's the pieces laid out before cutting.



Using spray adhesive to help secure the pattern made the task a little easier.



Here's the pattern of the front portion of the scoop tacked into place.



I use a right angle I had glued to my work bench to make a nice straight cut along the line.



I used the same process for the rear portion of the scoop.



Sorry for the double picture not sure why it did that?

Well now the BS begins. Using the patterns provided in the kit I realized that they are sized incorrectly, not by much, but enough to screw everything up. The front portion of the scoop pattern was slightly small, but enough to where the build heads extended too far.



Also if you notice the cut out for the through the wall tab on the scoop is too small. I thought well no big deal just extend it right?

 

[AfterBurners]

So after having the two sections cut out I decided to line them up and this is what I get...



And the rear portion sitting on the tube. There's a nice gap, but I think this could be fix by cutting the edge at an angle that would match the curvature of the airframe.



What I plan on doing is ordering another LOC 54mm but triple check to make sure that the pattern I'm using matches up properly. So I think what I'll do with rear portion of that scoop is sand it to fit the airframe flush and make sure its seamless. I'm into using globs of spot putty glaze or fillers. I want everything to fit the way it should even if it means spending some time to do it.

Special Note: I went ahead and order a LOC 2.14mmt from Hobbylinc for $6.50 not bad for a piece 34" long. I also got a few other items I needed.

Update: After stepping away for a couple hours I came up with a resolution. The rear portion of the scoop needs to be sanded down (Not picture above) to mate flush with the air frame has I mentioned before. It also sits higher up than the small 2 1/8" front section that contain the bulk heads. Guessing I would say maybe an 1/8" or close to it. (See below)



My fix is rather procedural. As I sand the rear scoop it should bring it down in line with the front portion, so that's given. As far as the bulk heads (crescent moon pieces) are concerned. I'll glue them in place with an even amount of overhang on each side and simply cut off the excess and sand to shape. The wing tab slot I'll slightly extend. Looks like I have an extra 54mmt I can use for a scratch build It really pays to step back and take a break and reevaluate the situation. I have to keep reminding myself that not all kits are the same and some require some creative imagination and skill, which I have, but it isn't always apparent in the moment.

Second Update: After closely looking at this picture below I realized that intakes are raised slightly (NOT FLUSH with airframe) and the wing tab slots are correct. They just need to be lengthen slightly to accommodate the tab. And they are aligned accordingly to the pattern.

 

[hornet driver]

Good to see you tackle the intakes. I'm in the process of doing the same. This should be a good comparison of the kit vs the cone head that decided to modify the kit !!

 

[AfterBurners]

Good to see you tackle the intakes. I'm in the process of doing the same. This should be a good comparison of the kit vs the cone head that decided to modify the kit !!

I also realized that when you print a scanned document it is not the same as a copied document, it's slightly smaller. I found that out the hard way.

 

[hornet driver]

So last night I dug into the intakes. I was able to use the little crescent parts provided in the kit but a bit differently. My intakes will stand off the fuselage 1/8 inch to replicate the actual intakes on the 104. I started by cutting some card stock(poster board) and gluing it to the inside of the crescents. Once that was set I wrapped the assembly with card stock and folded over the top and bottom edges--

 

[hornet driver]

Next I glued on a couple 1/8 inch balsa strips as stand offs. Once these were dry I glued the assemblies to the fuselage at a pre-measured location-. While this was going on I also removed the turtle deck behind the cockpit and replaced it with a more accurate one--

 

[hornet driver]

All that was done into the wee hours of last night. This morning I started work on semi-cones to blend them in and the intake lips. At first I was going to make the lips out of balsa but it was going to be a ton of work with no real benefit so I used some heavy 2 inch tubing I had laying around. I cut them to shape and added a boundary layer plate. After that it was just a matter of gluing them in place . After they had tacked in place I applied a coat of glue on all the inside mating surfaces. I next pulled a few measurements and cut my own pattern for the side plates, prior to this I glued the wings in place. I set the plate in place and no adjustments were needed although I had to glue it down in sections and hold it in place with tape. Only one is done at this time. While it's not pretty now it will be after we begin the filling and finishing part of the project--

 

[AfterBurners]

All that was done into the wee hours of last night. This morning I started work on semi-cones to blend them in and the intake lips. At first I was going to make the lips out of balsa but it was going to be a ton of work with no real benefit so I used some heavy 2 inch tubing I had laying around. I cut them to shape and added a boundary layer plate. After that it was just a matter of gluing them in place . After they had tacked in place I applied a coat of glue on all the inside mating surfaces. I next pulled a few measurements and cut my own pattern for the side plates, prior to this I glued the wings in place. I set the plate in place and no adjustments were needed although I had to glue it down in sections and hold it in place with tape. Only one is done at this time. While it's not pretty now it will be after we begin the filling and finishing part of the project--View attachment 293850View attachment 293851View attachment 293852View attachment 293853View attachment 293854

Great job! I'm rethinking my intake ports and doing some additional adjustments with the supplied patterns. I don't think they are very accurate so I'll make the changes accordingly. It seems the trailing edge on the wing when attached to the rear port is not lined up or centered and extends past the tip of the curve. I'm setting it aside and then I plan on tackling it once O have a good solution.

 

[hornet driver]

Thank you sir,I got the second one on. It was a real pain. I was not happy with it but before I tore it off I tried to cover it with another pattern. Believe it or not, it worked out great and really pulled out some of the wrinkles and problem areas. I may do the same on the other side as well. It adds a little weight but I don't think enough to make a difference. I also made an adjustment on the tail and pushed it back about 3/4 inch to bring it more to scale. I think I had it a little far forward to begin with by mistake.

 

[hornet driver]

Hey Dan, I just stuffed a g-78 up the tailpipe for balance purposes. The current CG is about 1/2 inch forward of the trailing edge of the wing tip. To get the CG where it's supposed to be , it will have to move forward over 8 inches!!!!:y:

 

[AfterBurners]

Hey Dan, I just stuffed a g-78 up the tailpipe for balance purposes. The current CG is about 1/2 inch forward of the trailing edge of the wing tip. To get the CG where it's supposed to be , it will have to move forward over 8 inches!!!!:y:

Hence all that weight that came with the kit. 12oz of BB's

 

[Micromeister]

Hence all that weight that came with the kit. 12oz of BB's

Wow! I just found this thread.
Outstanding work Guys!
I've been building and flying F-104's PMC's for decades. Because I have them Flying in 1:144th, 1:72nd, 1:48th, 1:32nd and 1:18th scales I've never even considered trying to scratch build one. Hat's off to you guys building them from scratch.
I'd be kind of interested to know what your model empty mass ends up.
Hope you have as much fun flying your new models has I've had over the years flying my PMC's...Yes just for fun as well as in NAR competitions.

 

[AfterBurners]

Wow! I just found this thread.
Outstanding work Guys!
I've been building and flying F-104's PMC's for decades. Because I have them Flying in 1:144th, 1:72nd, 1:48th, 1:32nd and 1:18th scales I've never even considered trying to scratch build one. Hat's off to you guys building them from scratch.
I'd be kind of interested to know what your model empty mass ends up.
Hope you have as much fun flying your new models has I've had over the years flying my PMC's...Yes just for fun as well as in NAR competitions.

Actually Micro mine is a kit that Chuck from FAT CAT made. I bought 2 of the kits and Hornet and I decided to do a dual thread. Pretty challenging kit to say the least. Hornets build is more true to scale with all the mods he is making...he is a true artist at work

 

[hornet driver]

I prefer to think of myself as more of an Idiot Savant, with the emphasis on Idiot. But thanks for the compliment----INTERMISSION----.

 

[hornet driver]

I was looking at some pics of the 104's wing root area. Turns out there's a lot going on there. Moving from front to aft, the intake /blend area -goes from convex to concave. So I guess not using a piece of body tube might have been the right choice. By using card stock mine goes from convex to almost flat. HHMMMM.I think with a little filling I can blend the area and at least give the impression of the actual inlet and body. Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have this area worked out and primed. After that I'll get some pics out--------H

 

[Daddyisabar]

Very build!

 

[hornet driver]

Ok, hold on to your britches! I filled the areas I needed. I plan on only one coat at this point. What did I use? Sheet rock mud !:surprised::surprised: but not just any mud. I get this at Walley world and it has a bit better adhesive qualities than others I've used. Also remember. I'm going over paper and about 90% got sanded off. There is one other little piece to the puzzle. Before I prime,ALL, of the areas with mud will be covered with a thin layer of FG resin. This soaks in a bit and prevents cracking at well as giving me a good surface to sand and fill with spot putty later. I also did the nose cone but I'll be using finishing resin on it(not MEK) since that would melt the foam. Everything was sanded with a sanding sponge. any flaws will be dealt with after the FG resin is applied. I'm also not worried about the fuzzys , priming will take care of that. The underside is not yet complete. I'll get to that in the next day or so--- One more note. At the beginning I mentioned that I would strip the paper off the tube. As it turns out these tubes are from a different manufacturer and that is not needed.

 

[hornet driver]

And with the resin on. After a few minutes this slicked out a little bit. I'll let it set outside in the 90+ temps for a while-

 

[AfterBurners]

I'm still waiting my LOC 54mmt I ordered then I can get started on the intakes.

 

[hornet driver]

I'm still waiting my LOC 54mmt I ordered then I can get started on the intakes.

Well, with all the finishing work I have to do , you should be well ahead of me in no time.

 

[AfterBurners]

Well, with all the finishing work I have to do , you should be well ahead of me in no time.

Its like you are frosting a cake there Bill... It does look good!

 

[hornet driver]

Both Dan and I had a couple of questions about the build and asked for info from others to help us along or at least get their opinions. So, for the moment, a short --you got it--INTERMISSION---

 

[AfterBurners]

Both Dan and I had a couple of questions about the build and asked for info from others to help us along or at least get their opinions. So, for the moment, a short --you got it--INTERMISSION---View attachment 294234

I'll be working on the scoop intakes this week, but need to dig part of the yard. I think one of the sprinkler pipes is busted. Hope its not the main! Anyway I'll know tomorrow. I'm still enjoying my time off.

Hope you guys are enjoying the thread

 

[samb]

...

Hope you guys are enjoying the thread

Hmmm... YEAH BUDDY !!! You boys are a couple of artistes. And Bill's intermissions are fascinating. I'd like to hear the story behind these amazing cartoons sometime.

 

[hornet driver]

Hmmm... YEAH BUDDY !!! You boys are a couple of artistes. And Bill's intermissions are fascinating. I'd like to hear the story behind these amazing cartoons sometime.

https://www.916-starfighter.de/cartoons .htm

 

[samb]

https://www.916-starfighter.de/cartoons .htm

Love it !