Radical Rocketry BT-80 F-104 Starfighter

[burkefj]

I wanted to share a prototype F-104 Starfighter rocket kit that Robert McNamee sent me a while back to do a beta build and give feedback. BT-80 based with ABS plastic 3D printed parts and machine cut ply fins. It's for 29 mm motors, most likely f class, you provide the 29 mm motor tube about 10 in Long and the 16 inch body tube and recovery system. It's a really slick design, and while you have to cut two slots for the wings, they're very easy to mark and cut using the slots in the 3D printed centering rings as guides. The wing tabs lock into the printed centering rings front and back, the tail fin locks into a slot molded into the tail cone and the T tail is slotted together as well. I just used CA glue to assemble it and it came out really strong and nice and straight. It has a slick motor retaining ring that looks like an afterburner nozzle, and the nose cone is three pieces where the front piece inserts and twist locks in place that allows you to add nose weight and then twist it into place and fine-tune things before you glue it permanently or leave it adjustable. His kit can come with the extra 18 mm motor tube in the tail for the rocket assisted NF-104, or with a long or standard tail and with drop tanks or sidewinder missiles I decided to go with clean wingtips and I'm going to paint it as one of the NASA f-104s. It's a nice big size about 34 in long and 2.6 in diameter. The motor mount is offset toward the top of the body tube to counter the drag of the T-tail and based on videos of his smaller version it should fly really straight. No this one won't glide. Finally getting around to finishing her and see if I can find some better priming and painting weather. It's right at 13 Oz without nose weight motor or parachute or paint should be around 18 and a half ready to fly with ballast and go around 700 ft on an f-27. I drilled into the shoulder of the tail cone and the forward centering ring and mounted standard rail buttons on the bottom of the model, I'm going to use Kevlar external recovery line attachment behind the rear wing so the model comes down horizontal and gets rid of the risk of zippering or landing on the tail.

 

[David Schwantz]

You said,"his" kit. Are these available and if so how can they be ordered? Thanks, Dave.

 

[burkefj]

You said,"his" kit. Are these available and if so how can they be ordered? Thanks, Dave.

Send Robert a pm his trf handle is bigmacdaddy or his store on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Radical.Rocketry?mibextid=ZbWKwL

 

[David Schwantz]

Thanks

 

[KenECoyote]

I wanted to share a prototype F-104 Starfighter rocket kit that Robert McNamee sent me a while back to do a beta build and give feedback. BT-80 based with ABS plastic 3D printed parts and machine cut ply fins. It's for 29 mm motors, most likely f class, you provide the 29 mm motor tube about 10 in Long and the 16 inch body tube and recovery system. It's a really slick design, and while you have to cut two slots for the wings, they're very easy to mark and cut using the slots in the 3D printed centering rings as guides. The wing tabs lock into the printed centering rings front and back, the tail fin locks into a slot molded into the tail cone and the T tail is slotted together as well. I just used CA glue to assemble it and it came out really strong and nice and straight. It has a slick motor retaining ring that looks like an afterburner nozzle, and the nose cone is three pieces where the front piece inserts and twist locks in place that allows you to add nose weight and then twist it into place and fine-tune things before you glue it permanently or leave it adjustable. His kit can come with the extra 18 mm motor tube in the tail for the rocket assisted NF-104, or with a long or standard tail and with drop tanks or sidewinder missiles I decided to go with clean wingtips and I'm going to paint it as one of the NASA f-104s. It's a nice big size about 34 in long and 2.6 in diameter. The motor mount is offset toward the top of the body tube to counter the drag of the T-tail and based on videos of his smaller version it should fly really straight. No this one won't glide. Finally getting around to finishing her and see if I can find some better priming and painting weather. It's right at 13 Oz without nose weight motor or parachute or paint should be around 18 and a half ready to fly with ballast and go around 700 ft on an f-27. I drilled into the shoulder of the tail cone and the forward centering ring and mounted standard rail buttons on the bottom of the model, I'm going to use Kevlar external recovery line attachment behind the rear wing so the model comes down horizontal and gets rid of the risk of zippering or landing on the tail.View attachment 619265View attachment 619266View attachment 619267View attachment 619268View attachment 619269View attachment 619270View attachment 619271

Beautiful bird, right Frank?

For years I have been planning a large scale one of these with the NASA paint, so I think it'll look amazing when you're done.

I had gotten one to test as well (I was an early supporter and fan) and unfortunately I've been too sidetracked and sat on it for too long (my bad Rob!).

Part of it was also figuring out some things about the paint and I was seriously considering the NASA one! Also I wasn't sure how I would pull off the paint I eventually decided on, but it's mostly figured out now.

I started the kit a week or so ago and simply love the ingenuity of the nose cone system. I found that the 5" screw eyes from Home Depot fit well and allow you to add adjustable weight right at the tip.


(Bic pen barrel is used as a spacer.)

I'm going to take my time with this to try to do a chrome finish!

Thanks for sharing!
KEC

 

[burkefj]

Beautiful bird, right Frank?

For years I have been planning a large scale one of these with the NASA paint, so I think it'll look amazing when you're done.

I had gotten one to test as well (I was an early supporter and fan) and unfortunately I've been too sidetracked and sat on it for too long (my bad Rob!).

Part of it was also figuring out some things about the paint and I was seriously considering the NASA one! Also I wasn't sure how I would pull off the paint I eventually decided on, but it's mostly figured out now.

I started the kit a week or so ago and simply love the ingenuity of the nose cone system. I found that the 5" screw eyes from Home Depot fit well and allow you to add adjustable weight right at the tip.

View attachment 619282
(Bic pen barrel is used as a spacer.)

I'm going to take my time with this to try to do a chrome finish!

Thanks for sharing!
KEC

Great, thinking I'll do it in the scheme of the one at my local museum which is more gray than silver ..really like that older era of chase planes. .

 

[Art Upton]

You know how that Nozzle works right? On the 104 or the F-16 when the f-16s fly over our RC field squezing that nozzle it sounds like a stick pig

 

[Bruiser]

That is a great paint scheme. Nice build Frank. It looks really good. I asked about a BT-80 version when he came out with the smaller one. Nice to see it's in the works.

-Bob

 

[sriegel]

I've got the BT-60 version coming and can't wait to build it. Will paint it in 154 Gruppo, Sesto Stormo, "Diavoli Rossi" colors.

 

[KenECoyote]

Great, thinking I'll do it in the scheme of the one at my local museum which is more gray than silver ..really like that older era of chase planes. View attachment 619314View attachment 619315View attachment 619316View attachment 619317View attachment 619318 .

Ah, I thought you meant the white NASA one. That's my next one to do after this one.

 

[burkefj]

Three coats of primer, sanded and two coats of light gray and it's starting to look pretty good. The one in my museum is more of a light gray with a tiny bit of metallic even though it's supposed to be silver I went with gray because I think it'll look better.

 

[neil_w]

That looks a lot like Rusto 2x Gloss Winter Gray but I can't remember what brand of paints you use...

 

[burkefj]

That looks a lot like Rusto 2x Gloss Winter Gray but I can't remember what brand of paints you use...

I use a mix, for my gliders I usually use krylon shortcuts or testors or model Master rattle can enamel or maybe liquitex since they don't eat the foam in a few cases where the model or the paintable part is small I'll use tamiya, but for larger models I like the sandable rusto primer, and in this case you are 100% correct rusto 2x winter gray.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

Looking fantastic Frank! Thanks for sharing.

 

[burkefj]

I decided to try doing the wings, body stripes, tail and anti glare with hand cut vinyl instead of paint and used some vinyl lettering I had in my stash, not too bad. Just need to find some meatballs.

 

[Bill S]

Way cool. How does the external kevlar arrangement work to keep the rocket descending horizontally?

 

[burkefj]

Way cool. How does the external kevlar arrangement work to keep the rocket descending horizontally?

It'll be roughly horizontal it may be a little bit body tube down, the harness just goes in a loop behind the wing and in front of the rear rail button to hold it in place, I've used this many times and it helps reduce the descent rate as well because the model is coming down approximately level so more draggy

 

[burkefj]

Few more touches. I picked that scheme because of the aircraft history supporting the X-15 program, and in memory of Joe Walker who was killed in this aircraft when he collided with the XB-70 during a photo shoot. There is a Belgian F-104 that is painted in this scheme at the Evergreen Aviation museum.

 

[neil_w]

Beautiful as always.

 

[Bill S]

It'll be roughly horizontal it may be a little bit body tube down, the harness just goes in a loop behind the wing and in front of the rear rail button to hold it in place, I've used this many times and it helps reduce the descent rate as well because the model is coming down approximately level so more draggy

Okay. If you ever get a chance, a picture of the harness would be appreciated for everyone's knowledge.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

Looking incredible, Frank... I guess I need to get a Cricut or something to cut vinyl...

 

[ksaves2]

Great, thinking I'll do it in the scheme of the one at my local museum which is more gray than silver ..really like that older era of chase planes.

Interesting. I see the museum 104 has leading and trailing edge covers as I've been told the edges were really sharp. I also remember that the 104 was used as a training aid for the X-15 program due to its' remote resemblance. Throttle back and the 104 dropped like a winged brick too. I also remember an astronaut in the X-15 program who later went on to the Shuttle program as a commander said the X-15 was "good training" for the Shuttle.
He said during the reentry phase, although the 15 reentry was of shorter time duration, the Shuttle flew and felt the same on reentry.
I can see that as both used reaction control engines for flight out of the atmosphere and switched to aerodynamic controls when there was enough "air"
for aerodynamic control. Kurt

 

[burkefj]

Interesting. I see the museum 104 has leading and trailing edge covers as I've been told the edges were really sharp. I also remember that the 104 was used as a training aid for the X-15 program due to its' remote resemblance. Throttle back and the 104 dropped like a winged brick too. I also remember an astronaut in the X-15 program who later went on to the Shuttle program as a commander said the X-15 was "good training" for the Shuttle.
He said during the reentry phase, although the 15 reentry was of shorter time duration, the Shuttle flew and felt the same on reentry.
I can see that as both used reaction control engines for flight out of the atmosphere and switched to aerodynamic controls when there was enough "air"
for aerodynamic control. Kurt

The leading edges at least on this aircraft are not razor sharp, you'd hurt yourself if you hit your forhead on them but you won't cut yourself.
The F-104 was used for landing practice yes due to it's flight characteristics, in addition to the simulator runs, before each flight the pilots would practice landings in an F-104 fighter with flaps down and in engine idle, which closely simulated the landing characteristics of the X-15. The pilot would usually make 75 to 100 landings in the F-104 before each X-15 flight.

 

[burkefj]

Okay. If you ever get a chance, a picture of the harness would be appreciated for everyone's knowledge.

Here it is just a simple tied knot or slip lupe behind the wings in front of the vertical stab and in front of the rail button there's no possible way it could slip or move, it hangs just a little bit nose down, sometimes you need to file a groove in the nose cone shoulder to fit the kevlar in this case the cone fit was a little loose so I just didn't tape it as much. If you use a slip loop you can remove it for display.

 

[ksaves2]

The leading edges at least on this aircraft are not razor sharp, you'd hurt yourself if you hit your forhead on them but you won't cut yourself.
The F-104 was used for landing practice yes due to it's flight characteristics, in addition to the simulator runs, before each flight the pilots would practice landings in an F-104 fighter with flaps down and in engine idle, which closely simulated the landing characteristics of the X-15. The pilot would usually make 75 to 100 landings in the F-104 before each X-15 flight.

Hi,
Did you get to look/feel at the leading edges with those protectors off the wing? O.k. maybe the astronaut was exaggerating a bit. I thought I read it in Michelle Evans book, "The X-15 Rocket Plane" Flying the First Wings into Space. Great book on the '15 and biographies on all the test pilots who flew it. As I mentioned, they used the 104 as a training tool. Landing speed was 175 knots with flaps plus a remaining fuel correction. Many entered the landing pattern at 205 knots. Another great book indirectly on the F-104 is "My Logbook" by Gunter Rall. An autobiography mainly on his wartime endeavors in the ME-109. After the war, he was invited back into the West German air force and flew the F-104. Great insights on the accident risk of the 104. Some air forces had a 46% attrition rate. U.S. gave up on it early on but Lockheed was able to garner more sales overseas. Italy ran the jet for years and only retired it in October 2004! Their accident rate was lower I believe but I expect that from the country that gave the world Ferrari and Lamborghini cars. I think the Italians were used to "high performance"!