No, I’m not going to review this with the board or insurance company or issue any guidelines.No in regards to the services cannot be done for money?
Of course the services can be done for money.
No, I’m not going to review this with the board or insurance company or issue any guidelines.No in regards to the services cannot be done for money?
Oh well even better for Scott! @Loki Research I hope you are reading this. Merry Christmas.No, I’m not going to review this with the board or insurance company or issue any guidelines.
Of course the services can be done for money.
Yea, I can just spend a week or two extra and a few extra thousand dollars in gas and expenses I don't have just to go to BALLS to flight test a motor. What a GRAND idea. Or I can legally sell it to an exempt entity, they can provide it as part of their class curriculum, fly it and I still get most all the useful information I need without going DIRECTLY into the hole and we both get what we need.Scott can come to BALLS or any other Tripoli launch that allows Research motor and fly his own non-certified motors all day long.
Apparently…Now that this issue is settled, do I need more.
WORD FOR WORD above, this is EXACTYLY WHAT I AM DOING. I'm just not doing it in the "few weeks" time table I'm being given here.Dude……..
Demonstration motors are un-certified motors that the manufacturer intends to bring to TMT for certification and made available for sale to the certified membership, being able to fly them at a TRA launch gives the manufacturer a chance to show the motor in action to the flyers and get some interest levels and feedback before going to certification. Insurance carriers can understand and relate to that. A demonstration motor is not a run around for manufacturers to make one off custom motors to sell with no intentions of ever getting certified for sale to the certified public members.
Not to stir the pot any more than it is, why were you banned from KS? Something doesn't smell right.Yea, I can just spend a week or two extra and a few extra thousand dollars in gas and expenses I don't have just to go to BALLS to flight test a motor. What a GRAND idea. Or I can legally sell it to an exempt entity, they can provide it as part of their class curriculum, fly it and I still get most all the useful information I need without going DIRECTLY into the whole and we both get what we need.
So now to do these flights myself, I need to travel nearly 3,900 miles round trip to get it done.
I can no longer make the 12hr, 700 mile round trip to KS because I've been arbitrarily banned by the TRA president and his merry band of cronies from Argonia, the field I religiously traveled to every year for what, 8 years in a row to support, about the only launch I ever brought and gave free raffle prizes of 38 and 54mm reloads and hardware, given to all the setup and tear down teams each and every year. I've been given no recourse for these actions by the local club and none but dismised motions by the national club, because the other club is private, not at ALL connected to the national club they say. BS
So what the hell good does my national membership do for me without having a local membership in each and every other local club I might want to travel to, JUST so they can't arbitrarily screw me without a say? Apparently it doesn't do me any good other than giving me some rights not to get kicked out of the National club as well.
Supporting the local club the way I had been was obviously not good enough fr them, and neither is my support of the entire freaking national TRA organization with my business, my products and life for the past 10 & 1/2 years to get it overturned.
Thanks for nothing.
these demo motors that have been sold
Is that Orville Redenbacher? Seems to have the distinctive fluffy look..
This would be great, if it were allowed, but because the rules once again have been wrote so that only Certified commercial motors are considered or allowed to be a Commercial COTS motor, we can (correction) not do this. We did that a few times before they "clarified" the rules on what they allow as a COTS motors.Spaceport Cup is an example. Approximately 75%, of 150+ teams, use COTS
motors, and those motors are pretty much geared for the everyday rocketeer.
These teams have the challenge of trying to work with motors that are not
necessarily designed for a competition that has specific altitude & payload
requirements. The flip side is this is an engineering competition so motor
selection is effectively a part of the competition.
Anything else but work to help a small motor manf/vendor.But I’m going to go do something else.
Anything else.
Because nothing is geared towards small commercial motor manufacturers. This includes IREC and TARC.I don’t think I have come across a Loki motor in the competition. So why
is that?
Waaaaaaah! If I want to go there, it's a 5,660 mile trip to Gerlach. You won't get any sympathy from me. That's the price you have to pay to play.Yea, I can just spend a week or two extra and a few extra thousand dollars in gas and expenses I don't have just to go to BALLS to flight test a motor. What a GRAND idea.
So now to do these flights myself, I need to travel nearly 3,900 miles round trip to get it done.
Guess you shouldn't have gotten yourself banned. Life's all about behaviors and consequences. Grow up!I can no longer make the 12hr, 700 mile round trip to KS because I've been arbitrarily banned by the TRA president and his merry band of cronies from Argonia, the field I religiously traveled to every year for what, 8 years in a row to support, about the only launch I ever brought and gave free raffle prizes of 38 and 54mm reloads and hardware, given to all the setup and tear down teams each and every year. I've been given no recourse for these actions by the local club and none but dismised motions by the national club, because the other club is private, not at ALL connected to the national club they say. BS
Why would TRA legislate what a local club does if it's more restrictive then their rules? That doesn't happen in our country. Learn how to play by the rules instead of whining about them like a little kid.So what the hell good does my national membership do for me without having a local membership in each and every other local club I might want to travel to, JUST so they can't arbitrarily screw me without a say? Apparently it doesn't do me any good other than giving me some rights not to get kicked out of the National club as well.
It's obvious to everyone you're very unhappy in your chosen line of work. Life's too short to be unhappy. Perhaps you should consider another line of work.Supporting the local club the way I had been was obviously not good enough fr them, and neither is my support of the entire freaking national TRA organization with my business, my products and life for the past 10 & 1/2 years to get it overturned.
Thanks for nothing.
This would be great, if it were allowed, but because the rules once again have been wrote so that only Certified commercial motors are considered or allowed to be a Commercial COTS motor. We did that a few times before they "clarified" the rules on what they allow as a COTS motors.
Thanks for the idea though.
Anything else but work to help a small motor manf/vendor.
Got it. Understood.
TRA will do what it wants for TRA leadership, even if their inaction threatens the motor supply to their members, because no one but me apparently wants to remove or clarify 10.7.2. or 10.7.3, or work to do anything else that might help a small manf/vendor.
Understood.
They will allow any national club member to break the clubs own written rules or Federal FAA law without consequence, as long as they do it anywhere else besides a TRA sanctioned launch event.
Understood.
TRA will insure only those motors it wishes to have insured.
Understood.
TRA will not work to clarify and of the insurance requirements for demonstration motors.
Understood.
Thank you all (separately) for your time, patience, ideas, positive input and lastly..... resistance to change.
Because nothing is geared towards small commercial motor manufacturers. This includes IREC and TARC.
We had been working with the EXACT SAME SUPPLY of 200 AP that AT was before it ran out, from the exact same manf, thru the exact same supplier, with the express stipulation (signed) that the material only be used in hobby rocketry and not government work. So basically you said both AT and Loki were doing business incorrectly.If you have built a business and a pricing structure on the cost of surplus materials, KM surplus or even barrels/totes/bunkers of 35+ year old PepCon surplus. Is simply doing business incorrectly. Surplus runs out, and then you are left stuck and you leave your customer base with a price increase that is sudden and shocking.
Sum bitch, it seems like the whole world, not just TRA BOD is out to screw you over. Not sure how SLI or IREC is screwing Loki, (COTS) is pretty self explanatory. It’s just another example though of preferring to bitch and whine instead of trying to advance into a real solution for your self imposed woesThis would be great, if it were allowed, but because the rules once again have been wrote so that only Certified commercial motors are considered or allowed to be a Commercial COTS motor, we can (correction) not do this. We did that a few times before they "clarified" the rules on what they allow as a COTS motors.
Thanks for the idea though.
Anything else but work to help a small motor manf/vendor.
Got it. Understood.
TRA will do what it wants for TRA leadership, even if their inaction threatens the motor supply to their members, because no one but me apparently wants to remove or clarify 10.7.2. or 10.7.3, or work to do anything else that might help a small manf/vendor.
Understood.
They will allow any national club member to break the clubs own written rules or Federal FAA law without consequence, as long as they do it anywhere else besides a TRA sanctioned launch event.
Understood.
TRA will insure only those motors it wishes to have insured.
Understood.
TRA will not work to clarify and of the insurance requirements for demonstration motors.
Understood.
Thank you all (separately) for your time, patience, ideas, positive input and lastly..... resistance to change.
AT hasn't created a thread lamenting the woes of keeping the lights on, so no, he didn't suggest they were doing business incorrectly.We had been working with the EXACT SAME SUPPLY of 200 AP that AT was before it ran out, from the exact same manf, thru the exact same supplier, with the express stipulation (signed) that the material only be used in hobby rocketry and not government work. So basically you said both AT and Loki were doing business incorrectly.
I think Gary is working on one but probably is being polite and waiting for the Mods to lock this one downAT hasn't created a thread lamenting the woes of keeping the lights on, so no, he didn't suggest they were doing business incorrectly.
The teams get to choose from only those motors which are aloud which are useful in that specific competition.IREC and TARC do not control the motor manufacturer selection for teams. That's a team's choice.
He said relying on surplus AP, which they had done the same, so yes, by default it included AT. They also have a brand new building going up because they have the lions share of a market. A market with controlling leaders who have driven out people like Scott Dixon, Paul Robinson and Anthony Cesaroni. Yes, Paul and AC. Paul wanted to get out of the TRA BS and peeing matches the same as Scott Dixon. Anthony now has practically nothing to do with HPR for the same reasons other than he's the owner, the same reasons Paul told him he wanted to sell. Anthony has people to run CTI and handle all the politics and BS for him. He wants nothing to do with it any more.AT hasn't created a thread lamenting the woes of keeping the lights on, so no, he didn't suggest they were doing business incorrectly.
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