Exempt Rocket motors Defined

[AlexBruccoleri]

That's always the answer, get someone to lock it down. And people wonder why they rarely see me, here or anywhere....

I personally am not opposed to you venting about your challenges. Your non stop bashing, accusing, complaining though is tough. And then we found a great compromise and still, not good enough. Can you at least spend a few months “trying” some of the suggestions in this thread?

 

[Loki Research]

Not to stir the pot any more than it is, why were you banned from KS? Something doesn't smell right.

Fred,

In a nut shell, I reported this (dealer/waiver/holder/prefect/club president all in one) and his repeated FAA waiver violations to the TRA Vice President a the the time Bob Brown, and 3 other board member including the President.

The following year at Airfest, this person created an abusive profanity laced drunken scene all by himself screaming and yelling at me that I had tried to put him out of business. I was actually trying to put water under the bridge since the TRA BoD effectively buried his actions with no discipline. I felt no need to pursue it, but the scene had been created.

A new, arbitrary and capricious unwritten rule was put in place, weighted and balance by the vendors good friend, the launch director Bob Brown, so that it would have a desperate impact on myself and not the vendor. A large center portion of the field that this vendor and company occupied was completely unaccesable to one person, myself.

6 years later after getting sick of the one sided weight, I tried once again to make amends, because I thought he was an adult and that after 6 years, he'd have matured. I had had a pleasant conversation and hugs with his wife earlier in the day. He made another outburst and scene when I approached him that was used as a justification to kick me out by the Kloudbuster board. Now, they can keep me from vending there. That was my first phone call aa owner of Loki, from Bob, asking if I'd be vending at LDRS XXX in Argonia. I excitedly told him yes, but that was the wrong answer. Vending is for vendors, and manufacturing is for manufacturers.

I got a letter in the mail a month later signed by all the KB board banning me from the Argonia field for life that stated I had been "hostile and threatening" to this vendor and that I had been warned in the past. It was a Reichstag fire basically. This is slander because if I ever raised my voice at him, it was to be heard over his merry band of cronies screaming and yelling at me as soon as he gave the signal by screaming at me. These other same people were only moments before saying hello and welcome to myself and Ray Shepard.

This is why I am banned and you will never see Loki Research at Argonia or Argonia Cup in the future, NOT because I do not wish to attend. Cronyism at its FINEST.

 

[Frederocket]

View attachment 553999

Blaaaa, I don't like sprinkles...

 

[Frederocket]

Fred,

In a nut shell, I reported this (dealer/waiver/holder/prefect/club president all in one) and his repeated FAA waiver violations to the TRA Vice President a the the time Bob Brown, and 3 other board member including the President.

The following year at Airfest, this person created an abusive profanity laced drunken scene all by himself screaming and yelling at me that I had tried to put him out of business. I was actually trying to put water under the bridge since the TRA BoD effectively buried his actions with no discipline. I felt no need to pursue it, but the scene had been created.

A new, arbitrary and capricious unwritten rule was put in place, weighted and balance by the vendors good friend, the launch director Bob Brown, so that it would have a desperate impact on myself and not the vendor. A large center portion of the field that this vendor and company occupied was completely unaccesable to one person, myself.

6 years later after getting sick of the one sided weight, I tried once again to make amends, because I thought he was an adult and that after 6 years, he'd have matured. I had had a pleasant conversation and hugs with his wife earlier in the day. He made another outburst and scene when I approached him that was used as a justification to kick me out by the Kloudbuster board. Now, they can keep me from vending there. That was my first phone call aa owner of Loki, from Bob, asking if I'd be vending at LDRS XXX in Argonia. I excitedly told him yes, but that was the wrong answer. Vending is for vendors, and manufacturing is for manufacturers.

I got a letter in the mail a month later signed by all the KB board banning me from the Argonia field for life that stated I had been "hostile and threatening" to this vendor and that I had been warned in the past. It was a Reichstag fire basically. This is slander because if I ever raised my voice at him, it was to be heard over his merry band of cronies screaming and yelling at me as soon as he gave the signal by screaming at me. These other same people were only moments before saying hello and welcome to myself and Ray Shepard.

This is why I am banned and you will never see Loki Research at Argonia or Argonia Cup in the future, NOT because I do not wish to attend. Cronyism at its FINEST.

Well, if true, that sure does stink...

 

[sharkbait]

I personally am not opposed to you venting about your challenges. Your non stop bashing, accusing, complaining though is tough. And then we found a great compromise and still, not good enough. Can you at least spend a few months “trying” some of the suggestions in this thread?

All suggestions have been dismissed in some form or fashion with lame excuses or evil conspiracy theories and even one referred to as asinine. I think we are just about down to the last straw, a Go Fund Me Page

 

[Loki Research]

Well, if true, that sure does stink...

Yes it is and yes it does.
It has been extremely disruptive to my life and family. That launch was my yearly vacation, my release, if I ever got one, if you could call the work I did to get there and back a vacation, but that's what it was to me. I've been effectively cut off from seeing every customer and friend that I ever had or made at Airfest over the 8 years I attended there. Never though was it a pleasant experience with "GET OFF MY FIELD!" Bob though.
I'd like to hear that story again sometime Mark.

I look forward to a day when the leadership of several clubs I know of change, and I know there are many, many people reading this that know exactly what I am talking about and feel the exact same way as I do.

 

[sharkbait]

The teams get to choose from only those motors which are aloud which are useful in that specific competition.
When contest rules are geared towards things
-with motor limits like 75mm full L motors (which we have never had and AT/CTI always have had for 15 years or more)
-when they are geared towards needing the largest N & O motor you can get (IREC cubsat payload in a 6" rocket to 10k' or 30k') (a 76/8000 is barely enough for the 10k')
-when they specify that a COST motor really means a certified motor,
-when TARC requires a minimum of something like several hundred of the same motor produced each year in order for that motor to be used in the competition, (for fairness of course)
then no, most of these competitions are not geared toward all of the 3 manfs but only 2.

Almost all of these competitions require some form of creation of a new product for Loki to get a leg in the game and have a chance at more sales.
This is why you hardly never see Loki Research in these competitions.

I have chosen the full N baby O option of these to work on.

My team came closest to the mile marker at SLI, 5,256’ with a CTI K-711 White, nothing special at all about that motor, I didn’t check with Anthony but I don’t think that motor was specially designed for the competition just a regular old (COTS) motor that anyone can fly for fun too.

 

[jsdemar]

 

[Loki Research]

All suggestions have been dismissed in some form or fashion with lame excuses or evil conspiracy theories and even one referred to as asinine. I think we are just about down to the last straw, a Go Fund Me Page

John,

Because every one of these suggestion requires some form of up-front capital investment of money for materials/services which I have not had and do not have now, or requires knowledge of things that I really don't know enough about to effectively do properly, like starting a whole new company on paper, or otherwise. I have a hard enough time with one companies tax filing each year, let alone two.
No Go Fund Me. I'll take your orders though.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

I will contact you offline to help you more. You have all the pieces including positive regulations to be a great company.

 

[sharkbait]

John,

Because every one of these suggestion requires some form of up-front capital investment of money for materials/services which I have not had and do not have now, or requires knowledge of things that I really don't know enough about to effectively do properly, like starting a whole new company on paper, or otherwise. I have a hard enough time with one companies tax filing each year, let alone two.
No Go Fund Me. I'll take your orders though.

Try some pre-orders, you want to get a 98 line up and running, I’m sure a lot of us would do 50% up front and the remainder in 4-6 weeks or whatever your machining time frame would be. I know you always want the best of the best of the best, but offer an option to go without anodizing. Get the hardware out the door, the EX crowd will get cashflow going quick and then follow up with Loki loads for them as quickly as you can, you can design motors that will work in the case whether you call it EX or commercial

 

[sharkbait]

John,

Because every one of these suggestion requires some form of up-front capital investment of money for materials/services which I have not had and do not have now, or requires knowledge of things that I really don't know enough about to effectively do properly, like starting a whole new company on paper, or otherwise. I have a hard enough time with one companies tax filing each year, let alone two.
No Go Fund Me. I'll take your orders though.

Maybe look at the other end of Ns ladder also, every year we scads of college kids that want to do there level 1. Most are doing 29mm H’s. Maybe a cert special like buy a 4g case and spacer and get the load 25% off. Might be out of your comfort zone but maybe look into to SU 29’s & 38’s, the majority of these kids are cert’ing with SU

 

[jsdemar]

 

[sharkbait]

View attachment 554024

As intelligent as you are John, I would have thought you would make better dietary choices, you are making me hungry though

 

[Steve Shannon]

John,

Because every one of these suggestion requires some form of up-front capital investment of money for materials/services which I have not had and do not have now, or requires knowledge of things that I really don't know enough about to effectively do properly, like starting a whole new company on paper, or otherwise. I have a hard enough time with one companies tax filing each year, let alone two.
No Go Fund Me. I'll take your orders though.

Why would you start a new company?

 

[David Schwantz]

Seen how much I have to pay for diesel fuel. Right now it costs me over 1200.00 to fill, 3 times a week. What do you think that does to my bottom line

 

[Loki Research]

Try some pre-orders, you want to get a 98 line up and running, I’m sure a lot of us would do 50% up front and the remainder in 4-6 weeks or whatever your machining time frame would be. I know you always want the best of the best of the best, but offer an option to go without anodizing. Get the hardware out the door, the EX crowd will get cashflow going quick and then follow up with Loki loads for them as quickly as you can, you can design motors that will work in the case whether you call it EX or commercial

John,

I do appreciate the comment, and I have zero doubt that I could raise money quickly this way, however I have learned through watching other as well as my own experience that this can lead to disaster.

I did this one time for 76/13000 hardware before I had received the tubing order so that I could pay for the tubing. The next thing that happened, as I was waiting for my order, ARCONIC's tubing press in Lafayette went down. They had to completely replace the entire piece of equipment. This is the press doing a die change, but the entire press had to be replaced. It was down for about 9 months I think, after I had already been waiting for 3-4 months and it took a year and a half more before I got my order of raw tubing in. I don't think I even charged any customer to ship the hardware once it was finally ready because I was so embarrased. It seemed like it took 2 years to deliver something I thought would be over and done in 6. I don't ever want to be in that situation again.

I no longer take money from customers for an item that is not ready to be put in a box and shipped. Even then, it's often after the order has been both placed and shipped that we collect our customers money. We do not collect a dime until an order is in the box with a shipping label on it. The only exception to this is if it is a custom order for which we take a 50% deposit for non stocked items on custom work.

I can not control any random thing that could possibly happen and derail a project before it is ready to ship. So unless I have 100% control of the items I'm about to sell, I don't want to offer it to anyone. This is how I think a business will keep it's customers happy without having to risk their trust.

 

[Loki Research]

Why would you start a new company?

Basically to CYA.
So I have been advised, it is to separate Loki Research from the sales of propellant grains so that I don't risk any repercussions to Loki Research from the TRA accusing us of running afoul selling research motors, the same way RCS sererates itself from Aerotech.

 

[jsdemar]

As intelligent as you are John, I would have thought you would make better dietary choices, you are making me hungry though

Haha! I plan on eating better next year.

 

[Loki Research]

Seen how much I have to pay for diesel fuel. Right now it costs me over 1200.00 to fill, 3 times a week. What do you think that does to my bottom line

Makes you freak out about the future? A lot?

 

[cls]

Because every one of these suggestion requires some form of up-front capital investment of money for materials/services which I have not had and do not have now, or requires knowledge of things that I really don't know enough about to effectively do properly, like starting a whole new company on paper, or otherwise. I have a hard enough time with one companies tax filing each year, let alone two.
No Go Fund Me. I'll take your orders though.

Scott, when I called you 10 years ago to order sets of 38mm and 54mm hardware, you said the same thing. Not in stock, no capital, not gonna do a run of hardware. I offered you a long term low interest loan to prime the pump with hardware. You refused

You make mighty fine propellant, but you do not know how to run a business. You are frightened of ordinary business tools. No capital, no growth, slow death. Please find a partner with the right startup and small business skills to manage the affairs. Form a corporate structure to protect your personal assets. Success is waiting for you.

There, I said it out loud. Best wishes.

 

[Loki Research]

Scott, when I called you 10 years ago

I'll be honest, I don't even know who this is or remember, but if you think I have bad business sense now, how do you think I was 10 years ago? I didn't know jack squat back then about a lot of things. My doors are still open though. Shoot me an email if you'd still consider it.

A not so funny story when I set up my business banking account, I had to provide them with the previous owners last 2 years tax records. What I didn't know was that the previous owner had an account at the same national bank. The dum@ss at the bank entered the old owners federal EIN number on the line for MY forms.

Over the next 4 years I kept having bank issues and couldn't figure out why, but every time I called to fix the screw up, they'd first verify who I was. One of the questions was to provide them with either my Social Security number that I've had since birth, or my EIN number that I just recently obtained. Of course, I gave them my SS# right off the top of my head. One time, I got my bank statement in the mail and it has $10,000 of random purchases expenses on it. Of course I freaked out. Come to find out, they mailed Jeff's bank statement to my address and mine to his. He took a family trip to Peru to rack up that $10k bill. Just another yearly vacation like all of you take, right?

So about 4 years later on one of these calls to the bank, I made them verify EVERYTHING. Onlty then did I realize that they had the totally wrong EIN # on my account. How did they say they were sorry for their royal FUBAR? They offered me a free coffee cup, but they can't change their interest rate. To date I have spent hours and hour and hours of wasted time trying to straiten out their mistakes.

About 3 months ago, I got a call from the bank, wanting to know if I'd like to stop into the local long Island branch in New York and she thanked me for being a customer for 20 years! I stopped and said, "you do think you're calling and what state do you think I'm in?" She said, Scott, in a town I can't spell in New York. Somehow, somewhere in their system, after 10 years, and after telling anyone I'd ever spoke to their that if their info didn't say Missouri or a MO phone #, delete the info right now, they STILL had information related to Jeff mixed up with mine even though we had BOTH moved more than once.

 

[rcktnut]

You make mighty fine propellant, but you do not know how to run a business. You are frightened of ordinary business tools. No capital, no growth, slow death. Please find a partner with the right startup and small business skills to manage the affairs. Form a corporate structure to protect your personal assets. Success is waiting for you.

There, I said it out loud. Best wishes.

Maybe trying to get on Shark Tank is in order! All kidding aside hoping the New Year is much more fruitful for Loki. A BAR for 26 years, seen lots of good vendors/ hobby shops and manufacturers fold in that time, don't want to see another. Where there's a will there's a (right) way!! HAPPY NEW YEAR

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

I no longer take money from customers for an item that is not ready to be put in a box and shipped. Even then, it's often after the order has been both placed and shipped that we collect our customers money. We do not collect a dime until an order is in the box with a shipping label on it. The only exception to this is if it is a custom order for which we take a 50% deposit for non stocked items on custom work.

You are good guy Scott with a good heart. I wish you would realize many of those you are bashing are also good people too. We want to help you if we can be constructive.

 

[tsmith1315]

Maybe look at the other end of Ns ladder also, every year we scads of college kids that want to do there level 1. Most are doing 29mm H’s. Maybe a cert special like buy a 4g case and spacer and get the load 25% off. Might be out of your comfort zone but maybe look into to SU 29’s & 38’s, the majority of these kids are cert’ing with SU

Looking at LDRS 39 statistics posted here, around 1/3 of the total # of flights were in the H-I-J impulse range. Seems like that's a lot of bread and butter.

 

[FredA]

80% of ALL US dollars in existence have been printed in just the past 2 years

My understanding is that 2 years is MORE than the usual life of a physical dollar in circulation....so that checks that the bulk of bills in circulation would be recently printed.....
STATS can say anything.....

 

[cwbullet]

This thread has served its purpose.