Whiplash build thread

[JRL303]

In my opinion, fiberglass is a bad idea, for you -- it encourages bad habits, because it's a LOT more tolerant of abuse.

That means that if your recovery kills are poor, the rocket doesn't force you to learn to solve your problems. Instead, it encourages you to continue on, and not worry about it.

Personally, I think you should be looking at cardboard -- built right, and flown right, they'll last a long time.

-Kevin

This is sound advice. Build a few LOC, PML, heck *cough* Estes MPR kits first. You'll learn the fundamentals of higher impulse. It will serve you well in the long run.

 

[DJDeadParrot]

In my opinion, fiberglass is a bad idea, for you -- it encourages bad habits, because it's a LOT more tolerant of abuse.

Not to mention working with fiberglass requires tremendous amounts of patience, even if you aren't fabricating the parts.

 

[mkadams001]

Time to give up on this kid. He gets great advice, his dad and mentor have spoken their piece, and now he wants to go with fiberglass because he really wants one. I had made a great offer to him with a good mid power kit but after reading his responses in this thread he clearly is not serious about learning the art of rocketry therefore, I am retracting my offer. Good luck kid.

 

[blackbrandt]

This is sound advice. Build a few LOC, PML, heck *cough* Estes MPR kits first. You'll learn the fundamentals of higher impulse. It will serve you well in the long run.

So you mean like the loc Aura (currently on sale for $28 in atxaple's sale)?

 

[troj]

So you mean like the loc Aura (currently on sale for $28 in atxaple's sale)?

The Aura is a GREAT little kit, and at that price, is a steal. I have one I fly with my son

If you want something a bit bigger, look at the Onyx

 

[troj]

Time to give up on this kid. He gets great advice, his dad and mentor have spoken their piece, and now he wants to go with fiberglass because he really wants one. I had made a great offer to him with a good mid power kit but after reading his responses in this thread he clearly is not serious about learning the art of rocketry therefore, I am retracting my offer. Good luck kid.

Don't give up on him -- in the past week, we've turned a huge corner, and he's listening in ways he hasn't, in the past.

Remember, we're working with a very enthusiastic 13 year old.

We've gone from "I have zero experience but am going to fly a two stager on high impulse Level 1 motors" to "I want fiberglass!" to now discussing some great options for starting out, and learning the basics. I'd say that's significant progress.

-Kevin

 

[blackbrant's mentor]

I agree, a cardboard kit is a much better way to start than a fiberglass kit. You can get what you "want" later. (or maybe not once you learn all the weight and cost disadvantages of fiberglass). I've suggested an Onyx to Matt in a separate e-mail as well.

and guys, I know you've had some frustrating discussion with Matt, and if you want to give up on him that's your choice. But I kindly ask you not to tell everyone else to give up on him. He's coming around. No one changes personality overnight, and no 14 year old is going to satisfy your expectations of maturity and logic. If he were your son, would you give up on him, or continue to work on him, knowing that he'll "get it" some day?

The Aura is a GREAT little kit, and at that price, is a steal. I have one I fly with my son

If you want something a bit bigger, look at the Onyx

 

[grouch]

Did somebody say Onyx??? It's a great little rocket. You should see what it does with a 410 in it!

 

[Reinhard]

Besides other things, already mentioned, a good rocket kit for a beginner has good user instructions and is comprehensive (chute, shock cords, retainer, launch lugs/rail buttons, decals). This is the reason, why I don't think the Darkstar is the best rocket for a beginner, otherwise it is a fine kit for an attractive price. (I got mine about 2 years ago, so things could have changed in between).

Reinhard

 

[bandman444]

I think he needs to get Mark Canepa's High Power Rocketry 2. And read it so many times he could recite any page on the fly.

 

[Worsaer]

If he were my son ( and my son is only a few years younger ) I would help to focus his attention by assisting him with a build that matched his skill level, and that he could legally and safely fly. I would foster his desire to reach for more by helping him set realistic goals, and to gain practical experience. I would also be very concerned about the amount of time he spends on forums such as this. With nearly 2,200 posts, averaging nearly 10 a day, I would say it had become a distraction, and I would encourage him to build something and expand his field of view, rather than allow something like TRF to become an obsession. By continuing to reply to his threads we have become his enablers.

At a young age, many years ago, I found an older mentor who had previously built Estes models, who set me on the course of SAFE building and flying. I stopped advising Matt early on, when I realized he didn't comprehend the gravity of what he was pursuing - he was not listening. If he's willing to listen, to focus on building and flying at his skill level, I'm willing to foster his enthusiasm.

Matt, listen to your counselors. People here have the same interest, and we all are aware of our limitations.

 

[Target]

I agree, a cardboard kit is a much better way to start than a fiberglass kit. You can get what you "want" later. (or maybe not once you learn all the weight and cost disadvantages of fiberglass). I've suggested an Onyx to Matt in a separate e-mail as well.

and guys, I know you've had some frustrating discussion with Matt, and if you want to give up on him that's your choice. But I kindly ask you not to tell everyone else to give up on him. He's coming around. No one changes personality overnight, and no 14 year old is going to satisfy your expectations of maturity and logic. If he were your son, would you give up on him, or continue to work on him, knowing that he'll "get it" some day?

and guys, I know you've had some frustrating discussion with Matt, and if you want to give up on him that's your choice. But I kindly ask you not to tell everyone else to give up on him. He's coming around. No one changes personality overnight, and no 14 year old is going to satisfy your expectations of maturity and logic. If he were your son, would you give up on him, or continue to work on him, knowing that he'll "get it" some day?[/QUOTE]


If he were MY son....he would NOT be allowed on this forum unless I were right there with him. My opinion....he has been a disruption on the forum. I'll surely get slammed for that comment but I take what I get. Many. many adults have offered help and deals but the kid just bulldozes on along without listening evidently or just doesn't value the knowledge of adults here. There are lots of adults here other than myself that possibly offer and give more parental guidance than we see.....I know that's an assumption about his home life. I do not even know the child or even live in the states for that matter. I DO NOT let my kids interrupt a forum such as this where adults are try to exchange information. They cant use a computer unless I am close by. Even then I am sure they could stray...... But other young men here seem to have a load of guidance and very mature with their commenting and decided less impulsive.

So NO I would not give up on my son which BTW would NOT be interfering here. He IS NOT my son that is very much for sure! I cant understand why his parents allow so much computer time at his age. For the record only and not a shot at you personally...BB mentor....I feel that last part of you comment was just a good deal too touchy feely of a (America political correctness) statement. Most parents do not give up but do offer guidance. Please do not take that out of context. Have a great day....

 

[troj]

I think he needs to get Mark Canepa's High Power Rocketry 2. And read it so many times he could recite any page on the fly.

Another EXCELLENT suggestion - Matt, if you don't already have it, this would be a Great Christmas List item!

I know a lot if folks who have learned a tremendous amount from the book. I own a copy, myself

 

[blackbrandt]

I think he needs to get Mark Canepa's High Power Rocketry 2. And read it so many times he could recite any page on the fly.

Already have it. I can recite quotes from it, actually.

 

[blackbrandt]

Alright, I have been thinking about this, and have come to a decision.
As Wildman's Black Saturday Sale is coming, I am thinking that I should get either an Aura, Legacy, Lil' Nuke, or a Weasel, and also a Darkstar Jr.
I would build the LOC kit first, fly it a bunch, and then start building the Darkstar. The reason I would get it during the Black Saturday sale is so I can get it for less.


Thoughts?

 

[troj]

Alright, I have been thinking about this, and have come to a decision.
As Wildman's Black Saturday Sale is coming, I am thinking that I should get either an Aura, Lil' Nuke, or a Weasel, and also a Darkstar Jr.
I would build the LOC kit first, fly it a bunch, and then start building the Darkstar. The reason I would get it during the Black Saturday sale is so I can get it for less.


Thoughts?

Seems reasonable, but how 'bout this?

Buy the kits you mention, but send the Dark Star to your mentor, for safe keeping. Or, have your parents put it away, somewhere.

When your mentor thinks you're ready to move on to the next step, then the kit is "released" to you, for building.

That way, you save money on the kit (assuming it's in the sale), but you're also motivated to demonstrate your knowledge to your mentor, so he'll release the kit to you.

-Kevin

 

[blackbrandt]

That is an even better idea! I will probably do that...
I am not sure I could be away from the kit for that long...
Also, you know what is in the sale, why don't you tell me and get it off your mind? :rofl: :lol:

 

[rbelknap]

Also, you know what is in the sale, why don't you tell me and get it off your mind? :rofl: :lol:

Nice try, but I don't think it will work.

 

[Target]

Seems reasonable, but how 'bout this?

Buy the kits you mention, but send the Dark Star to your mentor, for safe keeping. Or, have your parents put it away, somewhere.

When your mentor thinks you're ready to move on to the next step, then the kit is "released" to you, for building.

That way, you save money on the kit (assuming it's in the sale), but you're also motivated to demonstrate your knowledge to your mentor, so he'll release the kit to you.

-Kevin

Seems reasonable, but how 'bout this?



This is the best info you've gotten yet BB. This is an excellent idea. This will keep you busy while your dad and mentor oversee your growth in the hobby. As I stated last night. I have worked with rockets, RC speedway cars, gas and battery, RC planes and glider for years. You MUST take the steps as Troj is eluding to. Every person here wants you to be safe. They do understand you are an excitable and eager youth and they respect that by offering guidance. I have seem some of the best advice from guys around your age like askrockets and another young man I cant remember.

I recall being young and watching Saturn 5 launch and seeing that first estes alpha kit in the back of the America comics when I was there. I remember driving Dad crazy THAT evening my order came in. I wanted everything glued, sanded and launched soon as the box was open. It was that evening also I learned to open deliveries when Dad got home......that rocket was taken away and put out of my view for 7 days....

 

[CarVac]

Patience is key to building well. Spend around ten minutes building, at most two or three times a day. Spend the off-time thinking about the next step, planning exactly how you will do it and doing 'image training' where you imagine yourself performing the operation and predicting possible failure mechanisms. Also think about what went wrong on the previous operation, and try and figure out what you could have done better.

The feedback loop of planning-predicting-doing-evaluating is vital to the learning experience. With each new cycle of evaluations, your predictions will become more accurate, and your plans will become more robust.

In a week or two, depending upon the kit's complexity, you'll suddenly find yourself with a beautifully finished rocket. Don't worry if you miss a launch with a rocket; I just yesterday decided to take another month and finish the rocket I was planning to fly tomorrow as well as possible instead of rushing to finish it "on time". You've got much more time ahead of you than even me, so relax and enjoy the process as well as the results.

 

[rocketgeek101]

You could also consider modifying an Aerotech kit to fly on Cesaroni motors.

Whats the biggest motor you've successfully flown to date? Sorry if this was already mentioned.

I have been in this hobby for over two years, and only this year have I flown anything larger then a D. I don't intend to start flying HPR until I'm 18. In my opinion Mid-Power is more like HPR then LPR, and also provides more then enough power to really make you feel that you've moved up to the next level in rocketry. I also wouldn't buy the Darkstar jr yet, because by the time you're ready to build it, there might be an even nicer kit on the market.

Just my:2:

 

[blackbrandt]

So would the Aura be the best kit to get? My options are only those listed in the post above.

 

[MasonH]

Did somebody say Onyx??? It's a great little rocket. You should see what it does with a 410 in it!

D@MMIT Grouch, I thought we had JUST gotten past the whole H410 thing... :eyeroll:

 

[blackbrandt]

Yes, we did. There is the H399... :dark:

 

[troj]

So would the Aura be the best kit to get? My options are only those listed in the post above.

"Best" is relative.

Do you like sleek, skinny rockets, or do you prefer more of the short & stubby?

The Aura is the former, the Onyx is the latter. What makes you happy?

-Kevin (who owns one of each)

 

[troj]

Also, you know what is in the sale, why don't you tell me and get it off your mind? :rofl: :lol:

Let me put it this way...

I'm an IT consultant. As part of my job, I deal with confidential client data on a daily basis. Revealing Tim's confidential information would be what I call a "Career Limiting Move," were my employer to find out. It would show that I'm not trustworthy, and cannot be relied upon to not divulge confidential client information.

Or, put another way, No Way, No How. Ain't Gonna Happen.

-Kevin

 

[blackbrant's mentor]

.... For the record only and not a shot at you personally...BB mentor....I feel that last part of you comment was just a good deal too touchy feely of a (America political correctness) statement. Most parents do not give up but do offer guidance. Please do not take that out of context. Have a great day....

No offense taken. If you knew me, we would actually both get quite a laugh out of the fact that you said I was being too touchy feely and politically correct! That said, my sons are grown, and I do know that many of the behaviors I was frustrated with when they were younger, suddenly at some point in their maturity just disappeared. I'm glad I didn't write them off as being hopeless in those areas.

I do have to say thought that I don't understand the comments about taking over the forum. I am a newcomer here, so you can obviously correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that if you aren't interested in a thread or don't have any intention of contributing to a particular thread, you can just ignore it. I've only looked at the 2 threads that Matt himself started - is he disrupting other threads?

David

 

[blackbrant's mentor]

Good idea Troj. And given that Matt wouldn't be able to sit still knowing the kit is so close, he'll have good incentive to do a good job on the other kit, demonstrating that he will listen to advice. Are you getting this, Matt?

Seems reasonable, but how 'bout this?

Buy the kits you mention, but send the Dark Star to your mentor, for safe keeping. Or, have your parents put it away, somewhere.

When your mentor thinks you're ready to move on to the next step, then the kit is "released" to you, for building.

That way, you save money on the kit (assuming it's in the sale), but you're also motivated to demonstrate your knowledge to your mentor, so he'll release the kit to you.

-Kevin

 

[blackbrant's mentor]

It's not just what you like, it's also what your field is like. Bayboro tends to be windy. I'm much happier with fat rockets than skinny ones on a windy field. Trust me as one who has spent hours wandering through corn stubble and soybeans. When you get to dual deployment, you can go skinny.

David

"Best" is relative.

Do you like sleek, skinny rockets, or do you prefer more of the short & stubby?

The Aura is the former, the Onyx is the latter. What makes you happy?

-Kevin (who owns one of each)

 

[RadManCF]

It's not just what you like, it's also what your field is like. Bayboro tends to be windy. I'm much happier with fat rockets than skinny ones on a windy field. Trust me as one who has spent hours wandering through corn stubble and soybeans. When you get to dual deployment, you can go skinny.

David

To add to that, know what your rocket is likely to land on. My club flys at a sod farm, with several irrigation ditches on the field, which means that water landings occur from time to time. In the east and midwest, clubs tend to fly in grassy areas and farm fields, which tend to provide soft landing zones. Out west, many clubs fly in desert regions, with bare soil that is well packed and rocky. People flying in those areasoften use larger chutes to soften the landings. Moral of the story: know your field, and select and configure your rocket accordingly.