What else do I need? First HPR

[yohimbe2]

Hello all,

Newbie here that has built five Aerotech mid powered rockets. This is my first attempt at a high powered rocket. (Hopefully the choice of a PML Ariel was not poor?)

My questions are.

1.What else do I need to load an engine? Engine enclosures etc???

2.I plan to use a 54 MM case. Is this a good start or should I buy a 38? (Or 29). I am using a quick swap engine system and can choose 29 38 and 54. (I own a 54) What engines should I consider? (LVL1 cert attempt)

3.Should I bother with the piston system or go with one of those button cloth systems?

4. Please let me know if I'm off to a good start.

 

[Ol'sparky]

The motor case you have only uses J impulse motors so you would need to get the 54/426 case or a 38 mm case. For level 1 you can only fly H or I impulse motors. If you decide to get the Aerotech 54/426 or other aerotech 38mm case you will need the forward and aft closures, other brands are different.

It's just a personal preference if you want to try using the piston, some people love them and some hate them. I say try it out and if you don't like using it just build your next rocket different.

 

[WillMarchant]

The motor case you have only uses J impulse motors so you would need to get the 54/426 case or a 38 mm case. For level 1 you can only fly H or I impulse motors. If you decide to get the Aerotech 54/426 or other aerotech 38mm case you will need the forward and aft closures, other brands are different.

You'll probably also need a reusable aluminum seal disk. You should be able to get that from the same place you get your forward and aft closure.

 

[H_Rocket]

Is that picture everything you have or are the fins hiding someplace?

You will need a set of closures for that motor. I am pretty sure there are no reloads that require a seal disk for it.

The 54-852 motor is a limited use beast, however there is one L1 motor you can buy for it. The I599 Warp9 however you would need electronics to fly it. Were I you, I would find someone who has something like a complete 38-480 motor they would be willing to trade for that case (if that is all you have).

I've used the Kwik-Switch and really found it to be an annoyance. A great idea, just does not work as well as I would like.

 

[ggoldy]

The Ariel was my choice for L1 years ago. Still have it, still flies. I think I used an H128. It got it going quick, and not too high. An easy cert flight. I had a friend watch me build the motor and prep the rocket. He saw things I didn't. Experience is your friend. Use it! A note on the pistons.....the piston and the body tube are made of different materials. They expand/contract at different rates. Always, ALWAYS check during your prep that it slides easily in the airframe. I've had to sand mine before launching. Pistons are great as long as they slide easily. Good luck.

Gary

 

[cbrarick]

Good catch on the fins, Al. I'm pretty sure you need those to fly the rocket..
might want to consider CTI pro38 as there are tons of loads and they are easier to use then aerotech. a 4 grain case and to spacers gives you something like 26 level one motors to choose from.
I'm also thinking a recovery train would be nice...you know some shock cord and a chute :roll:

 

[edwinshap1]

guessing he just hasn't assembled it yet since the motor mount isn't in the rocket, and usually for through the wall fin placement you want the MMT to be there

 

[Pem Tech]

Good choice on the CTI Pro38 hardware.

 

[yohimbe2]

No fins until I fully understand how the motor will mount. Once that epoxy dries, there is no turning back and I really need to make sure I'm not missing anything.

OK, the Apogee website shows motor "retainers" (Help me on the word) that screw onto the back of the motor mount to hold the motor case and enclosures in. Looks good to me as I've never like the hooks. Do I need this? Would I need a seperate retainer for each size of my quick mount? (A 29 38 and 54 holder?)

I'm more than willing to toss away three different motor sizes for one if one size does better....I have a feeling 38mm is the way to go.


Now off to research this from your tips..

https://www.pro38.com/products/pro38/pro38.php

 

[UPscaler]

Well, performancehobbies.com still has a couple 29mm specials, and maybe 38mm specials. You basically get $100-$150 worth of hardware for somewhere around $60. I would go with that.

Edit: wildman, not performance. My bad. I don't think he has any more 38 specials though.

 

[o1d_dude]

Nope. Both the 29 and 38mm specials are listed as out of stock at Performance Hobbies. Have been for at least a week that I'm aware of...quite probably longer than that.

I know. I checked.

 

[gdiscenza]

Ken from Performance Hobbies still has the CTI Pro29 starter kit listed on his site (scroll to the bottom of the page you land on). For $50 you get a Pro29 3 grain casing, the standard aft closure, 2 spacers, the ProDAT tool, and the adapter ring that makes the 38mm ProDAT tool work on 29mm delay elements. If you add to that a Pro29 6 grain casing, you can fly every 29mm reload that Cesaroni sells except for the XL motors.

It's a great deal, if you're willing to use a 29mm motor mount or an adapter.

I bought the starter kit for my L1 cert attempt, which is now 14 days away.

G.D.

 

[cbrarick]

Ahh, youre looking for an Aeropack retainer. I don't fly anything else (except for estes hooks for LPR) You can put a 29 adapter and fly them, and even then nest a 24 adaptor and fly 24 mm motors (eg the CTI Pro24's or Aerotech's d-e-f hobby line case (if it's light enough for that)

https://www.aeropack.net/motor_retainers.html

 

[bobkrech]

Read the PML FAQs carefully if you are planning to launch it on 54 mm motors. You will want to use the optional thicker than stock fins to prevent fin flutter at transonic speed and probably will what the phenol airframe and glass it.

You won't have to change anything for L1 29 mm and 38 mm motors.

Bob

 

[WILDMANRS]

The Ariel is a great level 1 rocket .
Unfortunately the case you have won't really help with an L1 cert.
The good thing is you have lots of choices.
Aerotech 38mm
Cti 38mm
29mm would be a bad choice in my opinion.
If you want to talk more about it give me a call Mon-Fri 9-7 central
Tim
Wildman Hobbies
815-638-3200

 

[judo]

I certified way back when on a PML Ariel using a 29mm H128. I had the qwik-switch as well but used the phenolic body. Good pick. I had about three flights on her until a fouled 'chute translated into a tail-first "boink" recovery onto asphalt.

No, phenolic doesn't boink.

 

[Sailorbill]

IMO the Quick Switch adapter system really limits your motor choice due to the length of the adapter tubes. I would just put the MM tube in with out the quick switch part attached. You can get adapters from Aeropac, Slimline or make your own.
Hang on to the 54mm case for later.
Find a nice 29 or a 38 motor with adapters to allow you to fly L1 & 2 reloads. Base your choice by which Mfg. your local vendor carries. If they carry both then base it on cost, reliability and ease of use determined by conversations with club and/or forum members.

 

[Handeman]

For the Ariel, I would definitely invest in 38mm motors. PML says it flies on G to J motors, but G motors will be pretty wimpy for a 51oz rocket and J motors will leave you mumbling about dual deployment and trackers while you're hiking over hill and dale to retrieve it.

29mm motors are pretty much G & H loads. 1 to 6+ grains will get you from F to I, but the sweet spot for that size is baby H motors.
38mm motors are pretty much H & I loads. 1 to 6+ grains will get you from G to J but the sweet spot is large H & I motors.
54mm motors cover all the J and K range and can get you into L.

 

[yohimbe2]

For the Ariel, I would definitely invest in 38mm motors. PML says it flies on G to J motors, but G motors will be pretty wimpy for a 51oz rocket and J motors will leave you mumbling about dual deployment and trackers while you're hiking over hill and dale to retrieve it.

29mm motors are pretty much G & H loads. 1 to 6+ grains will get you from F to I, but the sweet spot for that size is baby H motors.
38mm motors are pretty much H & I loads. 1 to 6+ grains will get you from G to J but the sweet spot is large H & I motors.
54mm motors cover all the J and K range and can get you into L.

OK, it looks like your in my area. I just joined Tripoli and noticed in your signature that there is a site to launch close to Northern Virginia? I'd love to attend the next launch and meet people who are more experienced than myself. Also, I'd be willing to help with launch day duties if needed. Is the next launch next week?

I'm sold on the 38mm case size and will start shopping now. I got the 54 mm case used on ebay for cheap so no worries if I cant use it now.

Please let me know how I can get involved with the club...

 

[Handeman]

OK, it looks like your in my area. I just joined Tripoli and noticed in your signature that there is a site to launch close to Northern Virginia? I'd love to attend the next launch and meet people who are more experienced than myself. Also, I'd be willing to help with launch day duties if needed. Is the next launch next week?

I'm sold on the 38mm case size and will start shopping now. I got the 54 mm case used on ebay for cheap so no worries if I cant use it now.

Please let me know how I can get involved with the club...

The next launch is next weekend, November 13th & 14th. Sunday the 14th is a research launch. Saturday the 13th is going to be commercial and include a night launch. We're billing it as a sparkie launch, but really it's a regular launch where we allow unlimited use of sparkie motors. It will be really cool if you've never seen a sparkie fly at night.

Just check the BattlePark.org website for google maps of the location. The range opens at 10AM.

When you get there, look me up. I'll be the one working out of the back of a Silver Durango. Just ask for Jeff. It's always great meeting one of the TRF's at the launches.

 

[gdiscenza]

You could look up NOVAAR. Browse to the NOVAAR website and you can get the calendar of events.

On 11/20 I will, or intend to be, flying my L1 Cert out at Great Meadow with NOVAAR. Come out and see it.

G.D.

 

[yohimbe2]

You could look up NOVAAR. Browse to the NOVAAR website and you can get the calendar of events.

On 11/20 I will, or intend to be, flying my L1 Cert out at Great Meadow with NOVAAR. Come out and see it.

G.D.

Love great meadows (the plains?) and have been out twice. Great group of people. My only complaint is the barbed wire, cows, and cow patties I spent much time crawling though....My clothes and body were mangled badly crawling through multliple layers of barber wire to recover my Wart Hog. Two flights in one day sent me deep into farmland. (I've never walked with cows....Dam they are big !!!!----------) A farmer gave me permission to search and we both found my Wart hog hanging off a tree with half its body in a creek. (it dried out well but the next flight might be interesting)

Good thing I didnt put a G into my Cheetah !!!!! Both the G40 and G80 sent my Wart Hog way out of sight ! -----and even way out against the slight wind, both rockets drifted way too far. Please note: I shot as far into the wind as they would permit and my rockets still drifted deep into the farms...

 

[yohimbe2]

The next launch is next weekend, November 13th & 14th. Sunday the 14th is a research launch. Saturday the 13th is going to be commercial and include a night launch. We're billing it as a sparkie launch, but really it's a regular launch where we allow unlimited use of sparkie motors. It will be really cool if you've never seen a sparkie fly at night.

Just check the BattlePark.org website for google maps of the location. The range opens at 10AM.

When you get there, look me up. I'll be the one working out of the back of a Silver Durango. Just ask for Jeff. It's always great meeting one of the TRF's at the launches.

I'll be there.

 

[yohimbe2]

OK, I've got this coming....

Aerotech 38mm Special Rocket Motor System RMS New

This is the 38mm system that consists of a 38/360 casing, two RAS adapters, a floating forward closure , and aft closure.
The result is that you can fly 360, 240, and 120 newton-second reloads with the one casing and RAS system.

 

[karlbaum]

It looks like you are on your way with the Aerotech 38 special. That is a good level one motor case system.

For motor retention I extend the motor tube aft about 3/4 inch and use a hose clamp. It helps to cut the tube lenghtwise so that the clamp can cinch down on the motor.

I have used pistons and baffles and cloth wraps. Personally I prefer the cloth heatshield. You can buy individual heat shields or like me I buy a large amount of nomex or kevlar and cut from that.

 

[yohimbe2]

It looks like you are on your way with the Aerotech 38 special. That is a good level one motor case system.

For motor retention I extend the motor tube aft about 3/4 inch and use a hose clamp. It helps to cut the tube lenghtwise so that the clamp can cinch down on the motor.

I have used pistons and baffles and cloth wraps. Personally I prefer the cloth heatshield. You can buy individual heat shields or like me I buy a large amount of nomex or kevlar and cut from that.

Slight regret after seeing how easily the Cesaroni cases load, but the Aerotech case should get me certified.

So far the build is coming out OK. My first time using 5 minute epoxy for fin fillets was a learning experience. From now on I'll stick with 30 minute epoxy.

I've got a few coats of white primer going and and working the putty/flaws out now. Light blue paint to come soon... (My four year old chose the color)

I'm sure this looks silly after some of the posts I've seen here, but I've only been in the hobby for a few months. I'm learning.

 

[MarkII]

I think that I have accumulated enough basic rocket experience to go for my Level 1 as well. I've been flying rockets for 10 years, so I'm still a bit of a newbie. Nevertheless, for the past 5 years I have been steadily building my experience up in preparation for HP certification in spite of that. I don't want to wait until I have launched a lot more rockets, no matter what anyone says. People keep telling me not to rush things. But I may do it at some point in the next 6 months anyway.

 

[jFlds]

Start building up the checking account! For the aftermath!




Nice pics.

 

[Tronman]

Ahh, youre looking for an Aeropack retainer. I don't fly anything else (except for estes hooks for LPR) You can put a 29 adapter and fly them, and even then nest a 24 adaptor and fly 24 mm motors (eg the CTI Pro24's or Aerotech's d-e-f hobby line case (if it's light enough for that)

https://www.aeropack.net/motor_retainers.html

I've been wondering about these. Do you have to do anything special to the motor mount before intalling them like, for instance, not painting the aft centering ring? Should the retainer be installed on the motor mount before installing the motor mount in the airframe?

 

[yohimbe2]

I've been wondering about these. Do you have to do anything special to the motor mount before intalling them like, for instance, not painting the aft centering ring? Should the retainer be installed on the motor mount before installing the motor mount in the airframe?

I ordered the 38mm motor retainer before reading about the HAMR system. I am waiting for it in the mail now.... This should work well with my quick switch system and alow all of my motor sizes to be retained. (29,38 and 54) The 38 mm retainer shown in the pictures will sit on a shelf until I build another rocket.

I installed the 38mm retainer on my motor mount and it seemed to work very well. (no glue) I imagine a little sanding and epoxy will attach this to the motor mount nicely...