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[Ronz Rocketz]

Celebrating King Kamehameha holiday weekend with six Catos​

This winds were 9 to 12 mph gusting to 18mph so just me. Monday is a State holiday, but the trade winds don't look like they'll break anytime soon. Fortunately, there were no sport games on the field so only me and the homeless. I gave $10 to the lady who camps next to the park building to give to the guy who helped us get the SBB out of the tree the other week. Later, I heard her talking on a cell phone to a friend, so I speculate she spent it on a phone card which is fine with me.

Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of the Maxi Alpha 3 from Galactic Manufacturing before the launch. The kit is mostly complete except for the NC, 29mm tube, and the motor retainer. I made the decals myself. I used the old NC from the Big Daddy, and I epoxied styrene on the plywood fins. I decided to try the E12-4 so it would only go 250ft and likely land in the park. After the hard landing, I cut off 4cm from the crinkled forward section.

I looked into my stash of motors and found two of the infamous H21 motors that I sent the photos to Estes. I decided to try one in the Mini Camanche 2 so the Cato can ignite the sustainer. However, the sustainer also Cato'd so got a double Cato. The slomo of the sparks shooting down on the blown booster was very Hollywood. The ASM and Puma also Cato'd, but the Puma didn't survive.

The composite motor pulled off the Gyroc clone wing. I didn't bother to attached the fin tabs to keep the flaps straight until the MM ejects because I like to watch it spinning going up. Over the years, it created cracks like an Aloha Airlines 737. The Wacky Wiggler did what it was supposed to do. The AC cam on the Puma and Wackly Wiggler shut off prematurely, probably because the battery was low but didn't want to risk using a different cam.

I filed the MESS report for the Catos. I gave the following information to Estes Support. I didn't mention the H21 booster because they already know about it. I also previously told Quest about the C12-4 nozzle problem but decided it was okay to use in the Gyroc.
* E12-4 J201020 Mega Alpha 3 (Toasted the inside tube and crinkled the forward tube section.)
* A10-3T J170818 Mini Camanche (The booster is the infamous H21 but I figured it will Cato ignite the sustainer which also Cato'd so had a double Cato.)
* A10-3T F220722 Puma (destroyed)
* A10-3T I211121 Airborne Surveillance Missile (It's fine.)

0:00 Intro
0:03 Maxi Alpha 3 E12-4 5pts
1:12 Mini Camanche A10-0T/A10-3T 4pts
2:20 Airborne Surveillance Missile A10-3T 4pts
3:15 Puma A10-3T 3pts 4:16 Gyroc C12-4 4pts
5:19 Wacky Wiggler B6-4 5pts
6:30 Total 25pts

 

[Hobie1dog]

rockets blowing up everywhere

 

[neil_w]

I admire your determination to keep sacrificing rockets to the CATO gods one after another.

I think after 3 or 4 CATOs I'd have packed it in for the day.

 

[GlenP]

Wow. When you least expect it, CATO!

 

[4regt4]

I'm wondering if we should start an "Anti- MESS" website that catalogs just the 13mm motors that actually worked.....

Hans,

 

[Fishhead]

Wow. When you least expect it, CATO!

Dad used to take us to see these religiously. My brother and I loved the Cato scenes. Actually, I'm sure several of our fights over the years could be traced back to Pink Panther movies.

 

[BABAR]

Celebrating King Kamehameha holiday weekend with six Catos​

This winds were 9 to 12 mph gusting to 18mph so just me. Monday is a State holiday, but the trade winds don't look like they'll break anytime soon. Fortunately, there were no sport games on the field so only me and the homeless. I gave $10 to the lady who camps next to the park building to give to the guy who helped us get the SBB out of the tree the other week. Later, I heard her talking on a cell phone to a friend, so I speculate she spent it on a phone card which is fine with me.

Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of the Mega Alpha 3 from Galactic Manufacturing before the launch. The kit is mostly complete except for the NC, 29mm tube, and the motor retainer. I made the decals myself. I used the old NC from the Big Daddy, and I epoxied styrene on the plywood fins. I decided to try the E12-4 so it would only go 250ft and likely land in the park. After the hard landing, I cut off 4cm from the crinkled forward section.

I looked into my stash of motors and found two of the infamous H21 motors that I sent the photos to Estes. I decided to try one in the Mini Camanche 2 so the Cato can ignite the sustainer. However, the sustainer also Cato'd so got a double Cato. The slomo of the sparks shooting down on the blown booster was very Hollywood. The ASM and Puma also Cato'd, but the Puma didn't survive.

The composite motor pulled off the Gyroc clone wing. I didn't bother to attached the fin tabs to keep the flaps straight until the MM ejects because I like to watch it spinning going up. Over the years, it created cracks like an Aloha Airlines 737. The Wacky Wiggler did what it was supposed to do. The AC cam on the Puma and Wackly Wiggler shut off prematurely, probably because the battery was low but didn't want to risk using a different cam.

I filed the MESS report for the Catos. I gave the following information to Estes Support. I didn't mention the H21 booster because they already know about it. I also previously told Quest about the C12-4 nozzle problem but decided it was okay to use in the Gyroc.
* E12-4 J201020 Mega Alpha 3 (Toasted the inside tube and crinkled the forward tube section.)
* A10-3T J170818 Mini Camanche (The booster is the infamous H21 but I figured it will Cato ignite the sustainer which also Cato'd so had a double Cato.) * A10-3T F220722 Puma (destroyed)
* A10-3T I211121 Airborne Surveillance Missile (It's fine.)

0:00 Intro
0:03 Mega Alpha 3 E12-4 5pts
1:12 Mini Camanche A10-0T/A10-3T 4pts
2:20 Airborne Surveillance Missile A10-3T 4pts
3:15 Puma A10-3T 3pts 4:16 Gyroc C12-4 4pts
5:19 Wacky Wiggler B6-4 5pts
6:30 Total 25pts

When Deborah and I came out to visit last year I think it was about the time of Kamehameha day, and we had some Spectacular CATOs. Not sure if they were exactly on that day.

So is this becoming the Annual King Kamehameha Day CATO-Fest?

Hadn’t thought about the Tazz wing issue. That one I think is on you, wasn’t designed to withstand the stress of spinning under power.

I will say however that it is actually a clever novel strategy for a small field rocket.

 

[Joekeyo]

E12s and A10s. No wonder.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I admire your determination to keep sacrificing rockets to the CATO gods one after another.

I think after 3 or 4 CATOs I'd have packed it in for the day.

I was annoyed about the Maxi Alpha 3 because it was the initial launch. After that, it was a test to see how many would occur.

When Deborah and I came out to visit last year I think it was about the time of Kamehameha day, and we had some Spectacular CATOs. Not sure if they were exactly on that day.

So is this becoming the Annual King Kamehameha Day CATO-Fest?

Hadn’t thought about the Tazz wing issue. That one I think is on you, wasn’t designed to withstand the stress of spinning under power.

I will say however that it is actually a clever novel strategy for a small field rocket.

Indeed. I lost my Tazz to a C6-0 so wasn't motivated to adding the fin tabs.

 

[GlenP]

....Indeed. I lost my Tazz to a C6-0 so wasn't motivated to adding the fin tabs.

I bet you could devise some kind of trim offset extension to the gyro fin tabs, so that you can have a moderate angle for ascent that won't rip off the fins and then have the full gyro angle for recovery. The moderate spin on the way up might be enough to keep the altitude lower. Alternately, not sure if it would fly straight up if you just used one of the tabs, you might get a corkscrew type of ascent, but I would be afraid to try that.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I bet you could devise some kind of trim offset extension to the gyro fin tabs, so that you can have a moderate angle for ascent that won't rip off the fins and then have the full gyro angle for recovery. The spin on the way up might be enough to keep the altitude lower. Alternately, not sure if it would fly straight up if you just used one of the tabs, you might get a corkscrew type of ascent, but I would be afraid to try that.

IDK, I kinda like the shear terror of the Lawndart coming in ballistic.



It's all good. A little glue, a little Q&T, and it's good to go.

 

[BABAR]

Alternately, not sure if it would fly straight up if you just used one of the tabs, you might get a corkscrew type of ascent, but I would be afraid to try that.

as @Daddyisabar would say, “it’s all about your attitude.”

If you design a rocket to fly straight and it corkscrews, you feel like you failed.

If you design a rocket TO corkscrew (and it does) you feel you have magnificently succeeded! (And if it doesn’t corkscrew, that’s often even MORE impressive!)

Remember,

“corkscrew” does not equal “unstable”

 

[Daddyisabar]

as @Daddyisabar would say, “it’s all about your attitude.”

If you design a rocket to fly straight and it corkscrews, you feel like you failed.

If you design a rocket TO corkscrew (and it does) you feel you have magnificently succeeded! (And if it doesn’t corkscrew, that’s often even MORE impressive!)

Remember,

“corkscrew” does not equal “unstable”

The problem is my "TUDE" varies too much. From sniveling low power weenie to ultimate high power arrogance. From Estes shill to cursing Estes CATO tantrums. From rocket scientist to oddroc scum. From the NASA standard of "failure is not an option" to "no grievous bodily injury equals success." From rivet counting scale to "oh, a guy riding a fast horse wouldn't notice."

 

[GlenP]

as @Daddyisabar would say, “it’s all about your attitude.”

If you design a rocket to fly straight and it corkscrews, you feel like you failed.

If you design a rocket TO corkscrew (and it does) you feel you have magnificently succeeded! (And if it doesn’t corkscrew, that’s often even MORE impressive!)

Remember,

“corkscrew” does not equal “unstable”

But it still might rip off a fin on a C, maybe? But that is an easy fix

 

[BABAR]

But it still might rip off a fin on a C, maybe? But that is an easy fix

Actually the problem may NOT have anything to do with the activated spin tabs in boost, it may be a design defect (@BEC may have an idea here.)

The rocket comes down with vertical vector velocity (kinetic energy) relatively low, but with very high rotation velocity (rotational kinetic energy.). It lands on nose, tips over, and still spinning like made one of the fins hits the ground. That’s a lot of force. May survive the first 10 or 20 flights, but I suspect it’s eventually gonna give.

 

[BEC]

I'm wondering if we should start an "Anti- MESS" website that catalogs just the 13mm motors that actually worked.....

Hans,

I don’t know….I flew an A10-0T staged to a 1/2A3-4T twice yesterday (TK-45 Beta to ~625 feet both times), as well as two 1998 vintage 1/4A3-3Ts with no CATO action yesterday.

I don’t quite follow the spin tabs discussion….I guess I need to go back further and read more. I find the Tazz works just fine stock and flown with the recommended motors (or the next longer delay). I can imagine a C12 pulling a fin assembly off of one that was already abused by C6-0s pretty easily, though.

 

[GlenP]

I don’t know….I flew an A10-0T staged to a 1/2A3-4T twice yesterday (TK-45 Beta to ~625 feet both times), as well as two 1998 vintage 1/4A3-3Ts with no CATO action yesterday.

I don’t quite follow the spin tabs discussion….I guess I need to go back further and read more. I find the Tazz works just fine stock and flown with the recommended motors (or the next longer delay). I can imagine a C12 pulling a fin assembly off of one that was already abused by C6-0s pretty easily, though.

In the recent video you can see the GyROC has the fins deployed for helicopter recovery during launch, and one ripped off. The retaining tabs that typically hold the fins straight until ejection were not installed intentionally to keep the altitude low. That was because the stock Tazz he built before went too high and drifted away in helicopter recovery mode and got lost. - to paraphrase the thread so far.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I can imagine a C12 pulling a fin assembly off of one that was already abused by C6-0s pretty easily, though.

True that. It was probably 0.7sec when the fin ripped off with the C12.
C6...



C12...

But it still might rip off a fin on a C, maybe? But that is an easy fix

Yep. This was one of my earlier clones after I lost my Tazz. I was trying to create decals on the B/W laserjet printer I had at the time. It sucked.



Reminds me that Tim had a demonstration of how a fin rips off.

 

[BABAR]

I slouch corrected……

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Actually the problem may NOT have anything to do with the activated spin tabs in boost, it may be a design defect (@BEC may have an idea here.)

The rocket comes down with vertical vector velocity (kinetic energy) relatively low, but with very high rotation velocity (rotational kinetic energy.). It lands on nose, tips over, and still spinning like made one of the fins hits the ground. That’s a lot of force. May survive the first 10 or 20 flights, but I suspect it’s eventually gonna give.

No, I think you're right. The rocket is designed to start spinning from apogee at zero velocity. It wasn't designed to start spinning at initial impulse off the launch pad. But I think it looks cool...

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I'm using a 12v motorcycle battery "Super Start". Is it possible there's too much amps (130 CCA) from the battery causing the Catos? I'm using the Startech igniters. Just a thought...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...ort-battery-group-size-btz10s-agm/ssbn/etz10s

 

[GlenP]

I'm using a 12v motorcycle battery "Super Start". Is it possible there's too much amps (130 CCA) from the battery causing the Catos? I'm using the Startech igniters. Just a thought...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...ort-battery-group-size-btz10s-agm/ssbn/etz10s

I would think the igniter is like a fuse, it will blow at a certain threshold regardless of the power you connect to it.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I would think the igniter is like a fuse, it will blow at a certain threshold regardless of the power you connect to it.

Agree. This is one thought I had about why there were four in a row.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Casual launching on a moderately windy but very sunny day in Hawaii​

It was forecasted to be very windy but then turned moderate with 8 to 12 mph winds and 21mph gusts at the end. Gary and I decided Friday night to try launching in the morning. Fortunately, there were no sports except a baseball practice at the end. The grass was expertly mowed so perhaps there's something big planned, maybe a soccer game or dignitaries from the Mayor's office visiting. I threw a bunch of rockets into the box and only launched three of them.

Gary launched five including two spectacular Catos from F15 motors dated 2013. Despite the sporadic clouds, it was very sunny. The GoPros can take it but have to adjust the color on the Handycam video. Eventually, the GoPro10 shut down for high temperature so switched to the GoPro8 for the Protostar. The GoPro8 eventually shut down for heat also. It was only 84F, yet the sun was murder on the equipment.

The Mission Bell from @GlenP survived, just a little crinkled so added black tape around the front of the tube. After failed recoveries with the Protostar and Mission Bell, I called it a day.

0:00 Gary's Estes Mars Leaper, A10-PT
0:13 Gary's Rocketarium Mega Vortico, C11-0
0:31 Gary's Squirrel Works Too Cool for Spool, C11-0/C11-0
0:52 Extended Goblin D12-5 425ft 6pts
1:50 Flight video
2:59 Gary's Applewhite Stealth, F15-4
3:59 Gary's Loc Cool Spool. F15-4
4:26 Protostar C11-3 159ft 5pts
4:49 Flight video
5:17 Mission Bell B6-4 172pts 3pts
6:17 Total 14pts + 5pts = 19pts

 

[Hobie1dog]

Casual launching on a moderately windy but very sunny day in Hawaii​

1:50 Flight video 2:59 Gary's Applewhite Stealth, F15-4

That's the first time I've seen someone pour water down in a rocket.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Student launches at Windward CC and liquid sunshine at Blaisdell Park​

Helen was running the show at Windward CC with Jake on medical. She had two new students from Honolulu CC, one launching and one recording. The student was launching two Big Berthas that someone else previously made. The black tape on the rocket indicates where the student needs to hold the rocket so the payload doesn't pop out which is a rather cool idea. Tiger's glider worked great, and she was on an emotional roller coaster ride depending on the direction it was traveling. Gary gifted me a Blue Sapphire and worked great on the A8-3. I wanted to try it again on the B6-4 but way too windy.

I'm still having issues with the GoPro batteries. After the GoPro10 battery died, the second battery was low so switched to the GoPro8 on the smaller tripod. I think it's an issue with the external recharge station. I can recharge in the cam, but this might be causing the batteries to swell sooner than they should. The winds at Windward on Saturday were around 10mph, and the winds at Pearl Harbor on Sunday were stronger at 15mph with gusts to 25mph and sporadic liquid sunshine.

The DARC-1 had stability issues so shoulda held off until they were fixed. It worked much better on Sunday after I repaired the broken nose cone and ejection tube. We were able to pull Eric's Astron Apogee out of the tree. It was only about 12ft in the tree so not a problem with my 24ft pole.

Joe from the LHS had canceled the Sunday launch, but I knew that Eric was looking forward to flying some of his so went to meet with him. No kids since they were off doing summer stuff. It was fortunate we decided to launch because we were joined by Spencer who bought the Nike-X from the LHS on Thursday, built it, then painted it on Friday. Unfortunately, they only had super glue at the NEX which was okay except the motor mount broke free on the second flight and caused it to lawndart. It survived fine, just need to push back the MM and secure it with wood glue.

0:00 Student Big Bertha
0:31 Tiger's glider
1:27 Blue Sapphire A8-3 4pts
1:58 Nicki Short Bertha
2:39 Super Neon B6-4 4pts
3:20 Gary Mars Leaper A10-PT
3:52 Nicki LEO
4:19 Dark Silver B6-4 4pts
4:44 Gary rocket 1/2A3-4T
5:01 Student Big Bertha payload
5:25 AIM-9 Sidewinder C5-3 4pts
5:50 Nicki Der Red Max
6:40 Gary rocket 1/2A3-4T
6:56 DARC-1 C5-3 2pts
8:23 Student Big Bertha
8:49 Eric Space Hippy
9:07 Spencer Nike-X B6-4
10:09 DARC-1 B6-4 4pts
10:40 Short Vapor C11-3 4pts
11:23 Spencer Nike-X A8-3
12:12 Eric Gryphon
12:35 Eric Tazz
13:16 @GlenP Tiger Streak A10-3T - 1/4A3-3T 4pts
13:52 Gigabucks C11-3 4pts
14:52 Eric Astron Apogee
15:32 Eric Space Hippy
15:55 Total 34pts + 15pts = 49pts

 

[Hobie1dog]

thanks as always for the videos you make for us.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Celebrating King Kamehameha holiday weekend with six Catos​

This winds were 9 to 12 mph gusting to 18mph so just me. Monday is a State holiday, but the trade winds don't look like they'll break anytime soon. Fortunately, there were no sport games on the field so only me and the homeless. I gave $10 to the lady who camps next to the park building to give to the guy who helped us get the SBB out of the tree the other week. Later, I heard her talking on a cell phone to a friend, so I speculate she spent it on a phone card which is fine with me.

Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of the Maxi Alpha 3 from Galactic Manufacturing before the launch. The kit is mostly complete except for the NC, 29mm tube, and the motor retainer. I made the decals myself. I used the old NC from the Big Daddy, and I epoxied styrene on the plywood fins. I decided to try the E12-4 so it would only go 250ft and likely land in the park. After the hard landing, I cut off 4cm from the crinkled forward section.

I looked into my stash of motors and found two of the infamous H21 motors that I sent the photos to Estes. I decided to try one in the Mini Camanche 2 so the Cato can ignite the sustainer. However, the sustainer also Cato'd so got a double Cato. The slomo of the sparks shooting down on the blown booster was very Hollywood. The ASM and Puma also Cato'd, but the Puma didn't survive.

The composite motor pulled off the Gyroc clone wing. I didn't bother to attached the fin tabs to keep the flaps straight until the MM ejects because I like to watch it spinning going up. Over the years, it created cracks like an Aloha Airlines 737. The Wacky Wiggler did what it was supposed to do. The AC cam on the Puma and Wackly Wiggler shut off prematurely, probably because the battery was low but didn't want to risk using a different cam.

I filed the MESS report for the Catos. I gave the following information to Estes Support. I didn't mention the H21 booster because they already know about it. I also previously told Quest about the C12-4 nozzle problem but decided it was okay to use in the Gyroc.
* E12-4 J201020 Mega Alpha 3 (Toasted the inside tube and crinkled the forward tube section.)
* A10-3T J170818 Mini Camanche (The booster is the infamous H21 but I figured it will Cato ignite the sustainer which also Cato'd so had a double Cato.)
* A10-3T F220722 Puma (destroyed)
* A10-3T I211121 Airborne Surveillance Missile (It's fine.)

0:00 Intro
0:03 Maxi Alpha 3 E12-4 5pts
1:12 Mini Camanche A10-0T/A10-3T 4pts
2:20 Airborne Surveillance Missile A10-3T 4pts
3:15 Puma A10-3T 3pts 4:16 Gyroc C12-4 4pts
5:19 Wacky Wiggler B6-4 5pts
6:30 Total 25pts

I've sent multiple emails to Estes support with no response. Not sure what's going on. I guess it's time to call them.

 

[4regt4]

Speaking of Cato's....

A while back, @kuririn had chad staged an Estes Twin Factor, with rather spectacular results. I'm building one, and was wondering how he added the extra motor(s). Was the extra motor under the booster? Or between the booster and sustainer? Or (holy cow..) an extra motor in both places? Stability issues (when it goes correctly)? I'm guessing placing the extra motor between stages might be the most stable.

Hans.

 

[kuririn]

Speaking of Cato's....

A while back, @kuririn had chad staged an Estes Twin Factor, with rather spectacular results. I'm building one, and was wondering how he added the extra motor(s). Was the extra motor under the booster? Or between the booster and sustainer? Or (holy cow..) an extra motor in both places? Stability issues (when it goes correctly)? I'm guessing placing the extra motor between stages might be the most stable.

Hans.

That was Ron's CPMEV (Cato Prone Motor Elimination Vehicle).
He can give you the details.