Tripoli Report - Wow!

[dixontj93060]

I apologize if this has already been commented on--did a search, didn't see it. But, if you are serious about high power rocketry, you need to

JOIN TRIPOLI NOW!!!

I say this after reading the November Tripoli Report. Before now I'm one to only occasionally log on to the Tripoli.org site--in the past maybe once a year to read Board candidate bios and pick out my favorite underdog to vote for... But now, no more! In the last 6 mos or so the Tripoli Report has gone through a significant overhaul/upgrade and WOW! How nice it is in this November edition! It is approaching the old High Power Rocketry magazine with respect to tech comments/articles without all the blow-by-blow launch articles (which you can get with a Rockets magazine subscription BTW). So I'm not tuned into Tripoli enough to know who is carrying the torch on this initiative, but KUDOS TO "WHOMEVER"--WHAT A GREAT SERVICE TO THE HPR COMMUNITY!!!

From the Ether...

 

[blackjack2564]

Thanks for that Tim...

I read your note & went to Tripoli...downloaded/read report. EXTREMELY informative, covering a variety of topics and in-depth article on reattach [Research!!! damn autocorrect]motor making.

Reads more like a magazine the a report.
Highly recommended reading for all members!

 

[pyrobob]

Agreed. Browsed through it this morning and read through a few articles and thought it was very well done and informative. Great job to those who were involved.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thank you all. I’ll be sure to pass the praise to the people who deserve it: Ken Good and Tom Blazanin. They have been steadily improving the Tripoli Report and they intend to continue. They and the contributors (Chris Pearson, Greg Deputy, Paul Dentent, and Les Derkovitz) deserve all the praise. By the way, they are always looking for articles. Having more contributors would help prevent burning out the few we have.


Steve Shannon

 

[jsdemar]

The "Burnsim for Dummies article" is a reprint from Tripoli Gerlach, April 2014:
https://www.rimworld.com/tripoligerlach/downloads/2014-04-03.pdf
It describes all the terms and menu items, and shows an exotic sim output. There is no basic example for a new user.

The "Vacuum Casting article" is a reprint from Tripoli Gerlach, May 2012:
https://www.rimworld.com/tripoligerlach/downloads/2012-02-03.pdf
Les also has this description online:
https://www.rimworld.com/nassarocketry/tools/vcast/index.html

The ruler article could have just been a link to the article in an advertisement for littlemachineshop.com:
https://littlemachineshop.com/Instructions/SteelRules.pdf

So, mostly copy/paste filler.

The "Heat and Pressure" article is too short and misses some main reasons motors fail. One error is that "pressure" does not cause more heat, it is the flow of hot matter that transfers more heat. Static pressure alone, not so much. You need a leak to cause the "blow torch" effect he mentions, not just pressure. He also doesn't mention one of the main reasons for an unexpected high Kn for an otherwise well-designed propellant and motor: compressed grain faces without spacers. There also the increased burnrate and erosion for a motor under acceleration vs. firing it in a test stand. (Should tech articles be peer reviewed?)

But, I hadn't heard that Ron Schultz passed away. Last time I saw him was probably 20 years ago. RIP, Ron.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Please write articles for us John. Ken and Tom ask for contributions each issue.
They will probably also include articles from the old HPR days also.

 

[ECayemberg]

Please write articles for us John. Ken and Tom ask for contributions each issue.
They will probably also include articles from the old HPR days also.

Which is awesome!!! Great job Tripoli team! ...and well taken and stated, Steve!:wink:

I personally think it's great! While TRF is a great avenue, communication can nearly always be improved throughout ANY organization. Improving the quality and content of the publication, giving free advertising to our precious few vendors, and making it all available to membership is positively a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

Note: It used to be easier to see major launch reports, learn of the latest news from manufacturers, take notice of upcoming events, and so on. HPR Magazine was the reason myself and others discovered HPR. Extreme Rocketry and Rockets likely attracted others, but even that was limited by distribution. As the world turns from paper to the instant gratification online world, I fear we've lost invaluable channels of communication that were highly effective, but have been forced out for various reasons.

Keep up the good work; I LOVE the effort! Any way to publish the TR sans membership info for non-members to maybe grasp the attention of rocket people that don't know they're rocket people yet?:wink:

-Eric-

 

[Steve Shannon]

Which is awesome!!! Great job Tripoli team! ...and well taken and stated, Steve!:wink:

I personally think it's great! While TRF is a great avenue, communication can nearly always be improved throughout ANY organization. Improving the quality and content of the publication, giving free advertising to our precious few vendors, and making it all available to membership is positively a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

Note: It used to be easier to see major launch reports, learn of the latest news from manufacturers, take notice of upcoming events, and so on. HPR Magazine was the reason myself and others discovered HPR. Extreme Rocketry and Rockets likely attracted others, but even that was limited by distribution. As the world turns from paper to the instant gratification online world, I fear we've lost invaluable channels of communication that were highly effective, but have been forced out for various reasons.

Keep up the good work; I LOVE the effort! Any way to publish the TR sans membership info for non-members to maybe grasp the attention of rocket people that don't know they're rocket people yet?:wink:

-Eric-

Thanks Eric!
If people crow about it enough here, maybe those people will realize they’re rocket people and join to see what the hubbub is about.
I will ask Tom and Ken to see if they can produce a teaser copy to attract people.
By the way, the first 25 years (1991 - 2015) of the Tripoli Report were just placed in the archives for Tripoli. Members: check out the download area on the website.

 

[aerostadt]

The issues really read in fast and are easy to browse.

 

[dixontj93060]

But, I hadn't heard that Ron Schultz passed away. Last time I saw him was probably 20 years ago. RIP, Ron.

The Ron announcement was actually the reason that I went to tripoli.org and downloaded. That being said, if done on the up-and-up, why not steal old articles. Many of these tech topic articles are not widely distributed. It is a service to the rocketry community to make this type of stuff more available.

 

[Steve Shannon]

The Ron announcement was actually the reason that I went to tripoli.org and downloaded. That being said, if done on the up-and-up, why not steal old articles. Many of these tech topic articles are not widely distributed. It is a service to the rocketry community to make this type of stuff more available.

Thanks Tim. I completely agree. The tech articles are used with permission. Tom Blazanin works for both Tripoli Gerlach and the Tripoli Report.

 

[jsdemar]

The Ron announcement was actually the reason that I went to tripoli.org and downloaded. That being said, if done on the up-and-up, why not steal old articles. Many of these tech topic articles are not widely distributed. It is a service to the rocketry community to make this type of stuff more available.

It's probably not the venue to discuss Tripoli business. But, I think the Tripoli Report was intended to be a record of the organization's business (BOD meetings, elections, rules changes) to be shared with the membership. This is usually required by any organization's bylaws. Almost 90% of the other content in this issue was either advertisements, reprints, or cheesy filler. It could have easily just been links to existing (old) stuff online.

If technical articles are to be shared, they should be in a location on the website accessible without having to find them buried in a Tripoli (business) Report. Those articles that already exist could be links on a technical resources page. New technical articles could be highlighted. A few could be "live links" available to non members to attract them into joining TRA.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Onebadhawk]

I surly did enjoy the read,,
and more appreciate the effort put in by those
who's "boots on the ground" make it happen..
Thank you so much for giving of your valuable time and putting in so much skilled effort..
I most certainly know like most of us, what it's like to volunteer and be behind the scenes..
It's you guy's that deserve the praise..

Teddy

 

[Steve Shannon]

It's probably not the venue to discuss Tripoli business. But, I think the Tripoli Report was intended to be a record of the organization's business (BOD meetings, elections, rules changes) to be shared with the membership. This is usually required by any organization's bylaws. Almost 90% of the other content in this issue was either advertisements, reprints, or cheesy filler. It could have easily just been links to existing (old) stuff online.

If technical articles are to be shared, they should be in a location on the website accessible without having to find them buried in a Tripoli (business) Report. Those articles that already exist could be links on a technical resources page. New technical articles could be highlighted. A few could be "live links" available to non members to attract them into joining TRA.

Just my opinion, of course.

John,
You’re one of the people I most respect in the hobby as well as being a friend. You already know that I hope.
A few months back we (the board) made a conscious decision to make the Tripoli Report more generally interesting. That really means having content that’s more attractive than just the minutes and election report. As you point out, the bylaws require a Tripoli Report, and that’s important, but unless we include other “stuff” many don’t bother reading it. So, we’ll continue including those business communications required by the bylaws, but if we can actually get people to read It that’s good for the Association. An informed electorate is powerful; an ignorant one is dangerous.
So, some of the articles will be reprints until we can get knowledgeable people to contribute new articles. Even then we will probably include a “legacy” article from time to time. Most are still useful. And, from time to time we’ll include a mistake or two bi wish the mistakes were intentional, to see who’s paying attention, but they’re not; they’re just human.

 

[jsdemar]

John,
You’re one of the people I most respect in the hobby as well as being a friend. You already know that I hope.
A few months back we (the board) made a conscious decision to make the Tripoli Report more generally interesting. That really means having content that’s more attractive than just the minutes and election report. As you point out, the bylaws require a Tripoli Report, and that’s important, but unless we include other “stuff” many don’t bother reading it. So, we’ll continue including those business communications required by the bylaws, but if we can actually get people to read It that’s good for the Association. An informed electorate is powerful; an ignorant one is dangerous.
So, some of the articles will be reprints until we can get knowledgeable people to contribute new articles. Even then we will probably include a “legacy” article from time to time. Most are still useful. And, from time to time we’ll include a mistake or two bi wish the mistakes were intentional, to see who’s paying attention, but they’re not; they’re just human.

Thank you, Steve. I understand the purpose of adding some flashy extras to get people to read the Report. I bet that the same people who read the meeting minutes (like me) will still read them, and those that don't will scan to the articles and skip the primary content.

Assuming the Tripoli report will no longer get mailed out ever again, it doesn't need to be in a printable/published format. It is well done and professionally laid out, which is time consuming. The meeting minutes, election stuff, etc., could be published directly on the website "as it happens" in a blog posting format (welcome to the new millennia) and emails sent to remind people of the new content. The quarterly (and sometime less often) publishing defeats the purpose of timely information about decisions, rules changes, etc.

I think this is beyond the scope of a public forum, so I will talk to you about it more some time. Thanks for listening!

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thank you, Steve. I understand the purpose of adding some flashy extras to get people to read the Report. I bet that the same people who read the meeting minutes (like me) will still read them, and those that don't will scan to the articles and skip the primary content.

Assuming the Tripoli report will no longer get mailed out ever again, it doesn't need to be in a printable/published format. It is well done and professionally laid out, which is time consuming. The meeting minutes, election stuff, etc., could be published directly on the website "as it happens" in a blog posting format (welcome to the new millennia) and emails sent to remind people of the new content. The quarterly (and sometime less often) publishing defeats the purpose of timely information about decisions, rules changes, etc.

I think this is beyond the scope of a public forum, so I will talk to you about it more some time. Thanks for listening!

I agree that a quarterly Tripoli Report publishing schedule is not frequent enough to inform the members about active developments. That’s why I try to post about those things on the Tripoli Forum and here.
I look forward to seeing you in Huntsville!

 

[dixontj93060]

My 2 cents... 1) I would love to see legacy articles, even occasionally ones that are out of date technically. Fascinating what was attempted and accomplished 50 or 60 years ago; 2) I sure wouldn't want to be the one that went out and found links to this wealth of data that John D. speaks about (and you know I respect you John). But that is a thankless job, given that loads of it are on old bulletin boards, lost forever it seems (like the old TQC board) or in the Web Archive where everything is hit or miss (mostly miss) with pictures and references lost/scrambled. Again, I for one applaud this effort by the Tripoli Board (and I'm out of pennies)!

From the Ether...

 

[rockets]

Those articles from TRA this morning are very good reads! It's one of many great benefits from being a TRA member!


Thanks,

 

[MaxQ]

I apologize if this has already been commented on--did a search, didn't see it. But, if you are serious about high power rocketry, you need to
JOIN TRIPOLI NOW!!!
I say this after reading the November Tripoli Report. Before now I'm one to only occasionally log on to the Tripoli.org site--in the past maybe once a year to read Board candidate bios and pick out my favorite underdog to vote for... But now, no more! In the last 6 mos or so the Tripoli Report has gone through a significant overhaul/upgrade and WOW! How nice it is in this November edition! It is approaching the old High Power Rocketry magazine with respect to tech comments/articles without all the blow-by-blow launch articles (which you can get with a Rockets magazine subscription BTW). So I'm not tuned into Tripoli enough to know who is carrying the torch on this initiative, but KUDOS TO "WHOMEVER"--WHAT A GREAT SERVICE TO THE HPR COMMUNITY!!!
From the Ether...

My 2 cents... 1) I would love to see legacy articles, even occasionally ones that are out of date technically. Fascinating what was attempted and accomplished 50 or 60 years ago; 2) I sure wouldn't want to be the one that went out and found links to this wealth of data that John D. speaks about (and you know I respect you John). But that is a thankless job, given that loads of it are on old bulletin boards, lost forever it seems (like the old TQC board) or in the Web Archive where everything is hit or miss (mostly miss) with pictures and references lost/scrambled. Again, I for one applaud this effort by the Tripoli Board (and I'm out of pennies)!

Dixon - thanks for the heads up.
With the various online Forums and Facebook I often forget to check Tripoli website - unless I'm renewing or looking for altitude records.
Rockets magazine does a great job on launch reports, people love to see their rockets in print with their name (I did ).
There were some great articles and info in the old days in HPR...during the beginning of the sport.
Love to see if some of that could be retrieved. Maybe some of it is archived somewhere...I don't know.

I have a lot of old HPR magazines and back in the day - before the internet really took off - they were great for technical articles and how to's, sometimes it was the only way to figure stuff out, along with amateur rocketry stuff like Pacific Rocketry Society.
I have a bunch of NCR technical papers that are a fun read from a historical viewpoint...how to go a mile and how to go supersonic ....back in the old days before all the big motors and electronics were available to make it easier.
D Mobleys Rocketry Online had an "info central" that had great basic stuff that was very useful...
(I wish I had a copy of his how to upgrade the Estes Maxi Brute Honest John to survive H and I motors - have a kit sitting around).
I really miss Extreme Rocketry...some of the best interviews with the whos who in rocketry across the country.

 

[OverTheTop]

It's probably not the venue to discuss Tripoli business. But, I think the Tripoli Report was intended to be a record of the organization's business (BOD meetings, elections, rules changes) to be shared with the membership. This is usually required by any organization's bylaws. Almost 90% of the other content in this issue was either advertisements, reprints, or cheesy filler. It could have easily just been links to existing (old) stuff online.

If technical articles are to be shared, they should be in a location on the website accessible without having to find them buried in a Tripoli (business) Report. Those articles that already exist could be links on a technical resources page. New technical articles could be highlighted. A few could be "live links" available to non members to attract them into joining TRA.

Just my opinion, of course.

Other organisations have similar format of mixing the official stuff with informative articles to give a nice magazine feel. The AIAA magazine Aerospace America is a great example of the format is very popular with members.

 

[dixontj93060]

Ah, yes. Just now pulled out of the hidden confines of a back shelf in my man cave. I guess some guys stash old Playboy's, I stash old Rocketry magazines.

 

[MaxQ]

Ah, yes. Just now pulled out of the hidden confines of a back shelf in my man cave. I guess some guys stash old Playboy's, I stash old Rocketry magazines.

LOL - You and me both.......

I have some early Extreme Rocketry magazines, one of the first ones with the Ricki Rockett interview (drummer for the glam rock band Poison) and his big rocket project Jurassic Kick...made from a drum kit (May/June 2000)

Looking back the list of interviews includes just about everyone with name recognition nationwide in HPR at the time:
Gary Rosenfeld (Mar/Apr 2000) Frank Kosdon (July/August 2000) Frank Uroda of PML (Jan/Feb 2001) Sue McMurray - Tripoli motor testing (March 2001) Ky Michealson of Rocketman kits/chutes (April 2001) Scot Binder -Binder kits (July 2001) John Coker (August 2001) Wedge Oldham (November 2001) Terry McCreary - all you into research motors know his name (Jan/Feb 2002) Andy Weorner (April 2002) Brad Vatsaas of "The Black Rocket" fame(May/June2003) Korey Kline (July 2003) Mark Canepa (August 2003) Bruce Lee (Sept/Oct 2003) Tim Lehr the Wildman (Jan/Fen 2004) Curt Newport (April 2004) Pat Gordzelik (August 2004) Darren Wright (Sept. Oct 2004) Derek Deville (March 2005) Kevin Trojanowski (August 2005) Thomas Beach (November 2005) Trip Barber (December 2005)
Jeff Taylor - founder of Loki (July 2005).
Those are just a few of the magazines I have...I know I've left out many others.
Great reads and insight into the hobby.
Despite the wife giving me flak about keeping these old mags...I'm keeping them.

 

[Steve Shannon]

There’s a thread on the Tripoli forum about creating an archive of all of the HPR magazines.

 

[jsdemar]

My 2 cents... 1) I would love to see legacy articles, even occasionally ones that are out of date technically. Fascinating what was attempted and accomplished 50 or 60 years ago; 2) I sure wouldn't want to be the one that went out and found links to this wealth of data that John D. speaks about (and you know I respect you John). But that is a thankless job, given that loads of it are on old bulletin boards, lost forever it seems (like the old TQC board) or in the Web Archive where everything is hit or miss (mostly miss) with pictures and references lost/scrambled. Again, I for one applaud this effort by the Tripoli Board (and I'm out of pennies)!

From the Ether...

Old articles are interesting. Sometimes quaint, sometimes cool. Often misleading and a waste of time, compared to what we know now that is better and/or easier. A sorted collection of links, in my opinion, is better than a bunch of copy/paste filler and advertisements. A timely place for TRA business reports would be nice too, and would preempt all the whining about "who decided this and that and didn't tell anyone". (A limping/nearly dead TRA forum, I suppose, is better than nothing.)

I'm a technical person and not a marketing/sales person. I suppose if the goal is to get people's attention, there's a place for clowns and balloons and dancing girls at the used car dealership or at a trade show.

I suppose I need to write some technical articles and shut up. ;-)

 

[Steve Shannon]

Old articles are interesting. Sometimes quaint, sometimes cool. Often misleading and a waste of time, compared to what we know now that is better and/or easier. A sorted collection of links, in my opinion, is better than a bunch of copy/paste filler and advertisements. A timely place for TRA business reports would be nice too, and would preempt all the whining about "who decided this and that and didn't tell anyone". (A limping/nearly dead TRA forum, I suppose, is better than nothing.)

I'm a technical person and not a marketing/sales person. I suppose if the goal is to get people's attention, there's a place for clowns and balloons and dancing girls at the used car dealership or at a trade show.

I suppose I need to write some technical articles and shut up. ;-)

Write articles? Yes please!
As far as shutting up, no. Everyone has a right to their opinion. We would not be much of an organization if we stifled dissenting opinions.

 

[djs]

Write articles? Yes please!

Can you give examples of articles you think would be good? I could write something, but I think most of what I could write about would be boring and/or too basic for most readers.

 

[ECayemberg]

Can you give examples of articles you think would be good? I could write something, but I think most of what I could write about would be boring and/or too basic for most readers.

I doubt that! "Boring and basic" are not words I'd associate with you sir!

I used to write up launch reports for Midwest Power annually. Stopped for two reasons: 1. Extreme Rocketry went away, and Rockets Mag went all digital; and 2. Never heard any positive feedback, only negative. Wasn't looking for a sticker, thanks, or praise...but when you only hear the bad, well...:cyclops:

 

[Steve Shannon]

Can you give examples of articles you think would be good? I could write something, but I think most of what I could write about would be boring and/or too basic for most readers.

I think you’re probably underestimating yourself. We constantly have new members who are inexperienced who might enjoy something basic. If you’re unsure, I suggest putting together an outline or just a paragraph describing what you would like to write and send it to the address given in the latest Tripoli Report soliciting articles.
At any given time we have all levels of experience. While some of us really like the articles explaining how to vacuum process research motors, others of us would like to know different methods of chute folding and their benefits, attaching rail buttons, painting flames, or any number of basic skills. Sometimes, just having something written by a different person clicks with someone, even though they may have read other articles about that same subject.
Don’t sell yourself short.


Steve Shannon

 

[djs]

I used to write up launch reports for Midwest Power annually. Stopped for two reasons: 1. Extreme Rocketry went away, and Rockets Mag went all digital;

Not your reports, but the launch reports I've read in Rockets magazine the last year or two have been terrible. Lots of different variations on "the rocket flew up into the sky" (i.e. vaulted, hurled into, ascended, etc). I suppose I could write something better. Or at least, with a little more variety

@Steve- you definitely don't want a painting tutorial from me.. usually my painting consists of

"What color would look good that I haven't used in the past 2 rockets... ok, red it is"
...lots of crappy taping, including tape getting stuck to tape, tape getting stuck to other things, dust being taped down, tape stuck to myself, etc
.. spray paint
Paint gets on the rocket with lots of drips and runs. Paint gets on my glasses.. it doesn't come off easy. I also have painted the driveway and at least two of our garbage cans by accident. We also won't speak about the incident where our blue Honda CR-V got a bunch of orange paint on the hood. I caught hell for that one.
.. pull off tape
.. runs everyhere- rocket has a strange mottled look. Also the tape pulled some of the previous paint job off, because I didn't let it dry enough.
.. no time to fix it, as the launch is tomorrow, so I'll just kind of smuggle it under my coat so no one laughs at it.

 

[dixontj93060]

Not your reports, but the launch reports I've read in Rockets magazine the last year or two have been terrible. Lots of different variations on "the rocket flew up into the sky" (i.e. vaulted, hurled into, ascended, etc). I suppose I could write something better. Or at least, with a little more variety

@Steve- you definitely don't want a painting tutorial from me.. usually my painting consists of

"What color would look good that I haven't used in the past 2 rockets... ok, red it is"
...lots of crappy taping, including tape getting stuck to tape, tape getting stuck to other things, dust being taped down, tape stuck to myself, etc
.. spray paint
Paint gets on the rocket with lots of drips and runs. Paint gets on my glasses.. it doesn't come off easy. I also have painted the driveway and at least two of our garbage cans by accident. We also won't speak about the incident where our blue Honda CR-V got a bunch of orange paint on the hood. I caught hell for that one.
.. pull off tape
.. runs everyhere- rocket has a strange mottled look. Also the tape pulled some of the previous paint job off, because I didn't let it dry enough.
.. no time to fix it, as the launch is tomorrow, so I'll just kind of smuggle it under my coat so no one laughs at it.

Sounded like me last night... Now what flat black primer did I use?... Or was that flat black paint... Oh, here it is. Crap forgot I was out. Now where did I put that other can... Primer or paint? For flat does it make a difference...??? Oh well, let me shoot some touch up spots at least... Argh!!!

(Found out it does... I now have at least 4 shades of flat black on my 6" dia. X-15. About at the stage, "It's all covered with decals anyway, so just move on!")

(And isn't it Eskimo's that have like 50 shades of white...)