Tracking Info Needed

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WayneCoins

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Recently I've started building rockets and flying motors where my rockets have a possibility of getting lost. I was wondering if any of you had any information regarding RF and/or GPS tracking. Money isn't a huge factor in my decision, but I'd rather spend low than high.

Thanks!
 
Do a forum search on RF and GPS. There's a lot. I'm strictly LPR so I made return address labels with my name, phone and e-mail. They go on 'chutes and inside BTs.

Mike
 
RDF

Big Red Bee
Wildman
LL Electronics


GPS

Big Red Bee


GPS + Altimeter

Altus Metrum
AIM Xtra

Lots of info on all of the above can be found here on TRF.

The LL Electronics are the smallest trackers (by a long shot) on the market that I'm aware of. I have experience with Big Red Bee and Altus Metrum, though I have a loaner AIM Xtra on the desk here in front of me that I need to fiddle with.

-Kevin
 
Recently I've started building rockets and flying motors where my rockets have a possibility of getting lost. I was wondering if any of you had any information regarding RF and/or GPS tracking. Money isn't a huge factor in my decision, but I'd rather spend low than high.

Thanks!

Robert,

Are you losing them out at Lucerne? Jack told me that the CSI Locator/Transmitter that he sells is a very reliable unit for out there. A lot of flat, open ground. And I believe all you have to buy is the transmitter and he will loan out the receiver for retrieval. I will be putting one in my Super DX3.

Chris
 
LOTS of good options out there.

My own experience with the BRB 900 GPS system is such that I can highly recommend it. There are cheaper (and more expensive) options, there are smaller/lighter (and bigger) options, but for me this system is "just right". First off, the folk at BigRedBee are great to work/deal with and they make an excellent product. Second, the system is very user friendly, doesn't require a HAM license, and you can be "up and tracking" quickly with little training or practicing. You WILL need some sort of handheld GPS device to go along with it, but these can be found easily and cheaply on E(vil)bay and other sources. No systems are 100% foolproof, but I've easily tracked and found every rocket that was "lost" with my BRB900. It's good kit.

Search around the forum here and you'll find lots of info on this and other choices to be had.

Have fun flying higher and getting 'em back, s6
 
@Chrisman91

No, i haven't lost any out in Lucerne, but I believe I should get one for my Super DX3 XL, especially if I put an M in it after my L3 cert.

@stealth6
I have a garmin GPS receiver, but I need to input coordinates for it to be of use. Do the GPS-based trackers send out coordinates via SMS or anything?
 
The LL Electronics are the smallest trackers (by a long shot) on the market that I'm aware of.
-Kevin

You need to check out the Walston Retrieval System The transmitters are about the same size as the LL Electronics. up to 5 mile ground range with 50 mile Line Of Sight. We have one for use by club members at BattlePark. No Amateur license required. The more I use it, the better I like it.
 
One can't beat GPS tracking with a graphical display. I will put the plug in for Ham Radio and APRS. For 15 to 17 bucks, one can get a Tech license so they can get a BeelineGPS unit or something along the lines of a Byonics tracker. The Altus Metrum products require a ham license
and need their supplied ground station. They use a different encoding protocol not compatible with APRS. That said, the Altus product can transmit information at a higher rate and I've been told, can be two way communication. Very capable units I read highly praised by
their users.

Modified Garmin Dog trackers can be used but are on the MURS (150Mhz) band. They don't require a license but can be notorious at interfering with deployment electronics due to the 2 watt or greater power output. I've witnessed a deployment failure due to controller shutdown when two
deployment altimeters were in use. No charges were fired and the 12 inch rocket went in ballistic.

As an aside, I had a 150mW RDF tracker cause deployment of the recovery chutes while on the pad with an "el cheapo"
kit altimeter. There was an article in Sport Rocketry a couple of years ago that reported some of the incompatibilities. One way around it was mount the tracker in the nosecone away from the deployment electronics and use shielding around the ebay. Could be a PITA for some small
projects. Yes it's been done but one has to beware. Besides, price the dog trackers. I don't think they give you an altitude readout. They will give you a course to get you to your rocket though. If someone comes up with a "flying dog" I guess Garmin might make a unit to report altitude. :)
Oh, the Garmin dog trackers use proprietary encoding that's not compatible with APRS.
So if one invests in a dog tracker and decide to test for a Ham license later, the dog trackers won't work with anything other than the Garmin GPS radios.

The OOP (out of production) Yaesu VX-8GR H/T gave basic tracking information to the flyer right on the rig. The Kenwood D72A is an excellent comprehensive APRS rig and is the only thing
out there besides a VX-8DR (which is a non-starter). The DR requires the user to buy a lot of add-on stuff like the GPS unit itself and the programming software is not free.
Why the VX-8GR has gone out of production is beyond me. Yaesu came out with the FT1DR which is $40.00 less than a D72 but has a bunch
of proprietary digital junk on it that is totally useless to tracking. Heck in ham radio it's useless unless someone has another proprietary Yaesu rig to communicate with But I digress here.......... I have two old (circa) Kenwood D7A(g)'s that decode packets on two meters just fine, used to work on 70cm but no longer decode packets on that band. I believe the TNC's or on their way out and it's not worth trying to have someone try to fix. The reason the D7A(g) went out of production is some proprietary and necessary part went out of production. They are getting long in
tooth and I wouldn't buy a used one unless I did a valid range test with a 70cm tracker. One block doesn't cut it.

Now to get to a mapping solution. For a totally portable situation, a VX-8GR interfaced to a used Garmin 60(s)(sc)(scx), Garmin 78(s)(sc) or even a used monochrome Legend GPS will get one tracking. The Legend doesn't have any fancy maps but one can select "navigate to" the rocket/
waypoint and have a datum arrow show one the way to the downed rocket. One can scoll between the map and the navigation compass window to check the progress in the Legend. The GR will output GPWPL words to a handheld GPS or computer for that matter so they can be displayed on a map. The D72A will do the same thing but has some other useful packet mode options that are nice for computer based mapping programs I don't own a GR but I am ticked that Yaesu dropped it as it was a good basic tracker. Oh, I forgot to add that one uses the same interface cable for the Garmin-to-D72 interface. That cable will work for the VX-8GR to Garmin GPS connection.

Now one may say, "Holee cow Kurt. A pricey D72A or used VX-8GR and a handheld GPS?" Well, I say, price the RDF systems you have to go triapsing, antenna waving around with. The Walston/CSI stuff is a pretty good chunk of change to start out with too. A used GR and a Beeline 70cm GPS tracker is pretty competitive. Throw in a used Legend GPS and you'll have better directional sense. (Spell that situational awareness of where the rocket is headed)

Ok, how about getting the price down further? You got a Technician ticket? You got a laptop or some sort of a tablet type computer already?
How about a couple of free mapping programs with maps and a free program to decode packets? Heck you don't have to have a Ham ticket
to experiment.

Start with Direwolf:

https://home.comcast.net/~wb2osz/site/

Slap it into a windows computer, get a cable to go from a scanner or radio earphone jack to the microphone port on the computer, tune
to 144.390 and after adjusting the volume controls, enjoy seeing the position packets being decoded. Now if you live out in the boonies where
there aren't any ham radio folks doing APRS on the national frequency, ya might not see anything come across. Listen through the radio's speaker and see if you hear whistling/tweeting sounds, If you do then packets are flyng around and you should be able to decode them. Heck I have a cheap Uniden "Nascar" scanner lying around that works!

So, if you have any radio that can receive the 2 meter band, specifically 144.390, and a laptop with a simple earphone cable you can decode
message/position packets for almost nothing.

Direwolf has excellent instructions and don't be put off by terms like "KISS TNC" or "AGWPE" If you get a Ham ticket (and I don't think it's that much harder than an L2 test) you'll be able to read up and learn about it quickly because you'll want to.

Now, on to the mapping programs. There "IS NO" one good mapping program out there to please "EVERYBODY". What I'd like to see in a program is not available (more on that later) I'll start in the order that I learned.

UI-View and Undertow mapping software. UI-View has been said to be "dated" due to the death of the author. The code is frozen
and will never change. The Direwolf program above will decode packets for UI-View. UI-View's tracking mode is limited. It doesn't leave
breadcrumb tracks so one can follow the trail. If one choses to track, it will only allow the map to stay over the tracked station's position
ie. the tracked station will not move out of the map field. The map will follow the station so it doesn't go off the screen.

One thing UI-View will do that no other programs will do is to record the screen in real time for later playback. One can also tag a station with a large, legible "dashboard" for speed, distance, altitude etc. Like I said, one can "playback" in realtime for later perusal. Only problem is since there are no breadcrumb trails, one just sees the tracked icon (rocket for example) darting around the map. Recording and the info dashboard
is a nice feature. The big setback with this program is that Precision Mapping V9 Streets and Traveler will set you back $50.00.

https://www.chicagomap.com/purchase.htm

I have the program because 7 years ago it was just about the only thing that had detailed maps available and there really weren't any free
programs out there with much detail.

Next up is a Linux program called Xastir. I like it because I like Linux in general and actually learned it faster than UI-View. I've been told it
can run under Windows with a program called Cygwin but never bothered with it since I run XP with Vbox in a Linux environment anyways.
I like it because Xastir can store a log of the packets coming in. It can't record or playback in real time but you can call up the packet log and
it will spray the rocket's path on the screen quickly for later perusal, whenever you want. Unlike UI-View, Xastir will show you a breadcrumb path and on the station info window, you can see all the packets decoded in plain English, in tabular form with the speed, direction and altitude. Direwolf runs with Xastir too. It can use Open Source Mapping but one has to prestidigitate to get it to work. There are other maps available but I couldn't figure them out. Oh, Xastir can use the Festival voice server and one can hear the bearing and distance over the speakers. It's not that fancy voice narration like some flyers have custom coded on their own but somewhat nifty 'cause it's FREE! :)

Xastir is probably more for someone familiar with Linux but I put it out there because it has some likeable features. The ability to recall the logs for display is nice, but not in real time like UIView.

Next is APRSIS32. https://aprsisce.wikidot.com/ The thing going for this program is a variety a free downloadable maps that can be saved for later use when not connected to the Internet.

That is one negative thing with Xastir when I started with it, I could see beautiful maps onscreen but when away from the Internet, it drew a blank! I had to learn the in's and out's of getting the Open Street Maps stored on the laptop's drive for later use with Xastir.

Not so with APRSIS32. One can set the program to download the map tiles at various resolutions and not "purge them"
so they can be used out in the field at a launchsite. There is available a reasonably good set of aerial photographs that can be used
with the program so you can see if the rocket is getting close to a barn or dangerously close to a pond or lake!
There are some other free map sources available if desired. The disadvantage is, last I heard, no logging or playback. It can track your rocket and show a breadcrumb trail but the only thing you can do is take a screenshot for posterity. Once APRSIS32 is closed, all the stations disappear and the screen starts afresh when reopened. It would be a tremendous advance if this program had playback and non-volatile
logging. There are various log parameter screens one can pull up and see while the program is running, but once it's closed all the station
data is gone. Again the keyword here is FREE. Direwolf works with APRSIS32 too.

The last program I'm going to discuss is YAAC. "Yet Another APRS Client" It's available here:

https://www.ka2ddo.org/ka2ddo/YAAC.html

It's the newest kid on the block and the setup instructions for the maps are easily decipherable. It's a java based app so you can run it in a variety of systems as long as Java's in there.

With APRSIS32 one initially has to have an internet connection to download the areas they are interested in for storage for later use. With YAAC, one can download all or parts of North America or other geographical areas and set it up in advance. One can do piecemeal downloads if desired too. It's detailed in the instructions and menus. YAAC uses the Open Street Map tiles"

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=5/51.500/-0.100

I like the Geofabrik. de site for OSM downloads. It's easier to get the data. Download it and sic YAAC on it. Come back
a few hours later and you're good as gold.

https://download.geofabrik.de/

Scroll down and one can get the maps for various areas. YAAC has a one touch menu selection to pull the map data into YAAC.
It takes a few hours to accomplish but all of the U.S. can be put in, in a couple of nights. Unfortunately there is no log storing,
record or playback but heck, it's one of the easier programs when compared to the above.

YAAC is the easiest to setup. Download, install and then read the instructions. There is a setup wizard that can get you going but make sure you read all the info that is had in the Direwolf instructions. They outline using Direwolf with all the programs above. Some programs need direwolf to be started with a -p tag.

O.K. with what I've outlined above, one can get free tracking programs with maps and play around with it, without having a ham license.
As long as some Hams are using APRS in their area they can receive and decode packets for minimal cost

Now, instead of Direwolf, there is AGWPE and soundmodem out there for packet decoding. I've had the best luck with Direwolf. The key is getting the input level set correctly for the capture (microphone) channel of the computer and the volume level on the radio.

Instead of software emulation like the above programs, one would have to buy a TNC or Terminal Node Controller. Google them. they aren't too
cheap. A TNC-X is a KISS TNC that is reasonable in cost.

https://www.tnc-x.com/

Reason I didn't talk about a TNC much is that we are interested in receiving packets to track rockets. Receiving is easy.
Transmitting is tougher. A TNC can transmit the GPS location of the station over the radio. We don't care about that with our
laptop rocket tracking station. We want to find the rocket. We don't want to talk to it. :) Now that becomes important if one,
as a ham radio operator, wants to transmit messages over the APRS network or participate in packet radio from their
laptop/radio station.

My TNC-X transmits via Rf the icon for our rocket club and a short message that appears on the Google APRS site.
from my home station. An APRS repeater is 1400 feet away from me so I can use a handi-talkie in the basement to
get the packet into the system.

https://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=15&call=a/PARS&timerange=10800&tail=3600

So what would be the "ideal" rocket tracking program. One that does "real time" record "and" playback like UIView , displays the breadcrumb trails from the logs like Xastir and has portable maps like APRSIS32. Like I said, "There is no one good tracking program out there."

For a beginner, start with YAAC and also get a hold of APRSIS32 or if you have a CE platform , can try APRSISCE.

Some Tricks:

With two D72's available, one person can track and readout the altitude of the rocket while the other gets distance and bearing.
Don't laugh there's another fellow in my club who just bought a second D72 for when I'm not at a launch so he can watch both!!

If one has a USB GPS available, they can plug it into their laptop and use it with any of the programs above. Alternatively, they
can manually drag the station with the mouse to the location they want for the base/tracking station. I forgot my USB GPS one time
so had to manually set the station! Lazy me!

Another point. Computer screens are very hard to see in the sunlight unless it' a unit designed for that purpose. The Garmin GPS units are readable if you hold them at the right angle for sunlight viewing. I've painted the inside of a large cardboard box flat black so I can monitor
at a table. A good alternative is to use a mag mount antenna for your vehicle. Setup the station inside the car so you can record the flight
with UIView or have TNC logging on with Xastir. Lock the vehicle and go fly your rocket. Use the handheld H/T with a mapping GPS for portable use.

Now what really gets me excited is the prospect of affordable tablets that can run these programs, are easily readable in the sun and allow one to carry on the walking trek to the rocket. That would be great.

Yesterday, I launched my Wildman Jr on a Loki J320. I had the Beeline GPS in the electronics bay on top of/in front of the Raven II underneath
on the sled.

A form fit hole in the front bulkhead put the antenna in the upper parachute bay. Heat shrink tubing formed a press fit seal on the forward bulkhead for the antenna after I pulled it through. I then took a cardboard tube that Aerotech ships it's large igniters in and wrapped it in duct tape for insulation for when the BP goes off for the main chute. I used a black clay like putty at the antenna/bulkhead base (linemen call it monkey s--t) and slid the tube over the wire antenna In that way the wire antenna wasn't smushed by the parachute.

The launch button was pushed and the WMJr disappeared period. Went up 7+k and not seen of again. Except, two of us were using APRS
with Garmin mapping GPS units plugged into D72's We knew the rocket was going southeast although it looked like it was going straight up
off the pad. Got the apogee at 7500' and the descent wasn't quite that fast so I knew the apogee charge blew. Last packet was at 915' and was locked into my Garmin 60Cs..87 miles away at a spot I wouldn't have thought it was going. The radio was quiet but the last known packet was locked in and had me navigating to the recovery site. At 650' from the rocket, I started receiving new packets that gave the elevation of 740'.
The corn stubble was so high, I didn't catch sight of the rocket until I was 60' from it. It kept a perfectly good rocket from going lost.

A non-directional RDF Walston/CSI beacon with a Yagi antenna/attenuator might not have cut it if I, the operator, wasn't skilled enough to get an
initial bearing to get close enough to re-acquire the signal. True, the RDF beacons are 50mW as opposed to 12mW of the BeelineGPS but
I was confident I would get very close to where the rocket was lying to I could get another packet.

Kurt KC9LDH
 
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