Torellian Invader Build Thread

[SSenesy]

Winter is upon us (even if it feels like April right now here in NJ) and it's time to get some of those winter builds done. I've had a few upscales from K & S sitting out in the garage for quite a while, so I'm making my resolution for the coming year to spend more effort to finish them. I'm starting with the Torellian Invader, and since I didn't find any threads here, I thought I'd post a build thread for it.

The kit is a 4" upscale of half of the popular Estes duo kit Orion Starfighter/Torellian Invader. I've got the Starfighter as well, and will do a thread on it too. The Invader is pretty straightforward. LOC style tubing, plastic nose & plywood fins and accouterments.

 

[SSenesy]

Once I finished inventorying everything, the first thing is to mark all the body tubes to make things easy to line up later. K & S provide a couple of paper guides that wrap around the body tubes and are used to make alignment marks. I used a piece of angle iron to extend the marks.

 

[SSenesy]

Since none of the fins go through the main body tube, the motor mount isn't anything special. I fit the bottom ring using an Aeropack for spacing, and mounted an SS U-bolt from Lowes to the top. The airframe is big enough for me to easily reach the U-bolt from the top.

 

[SSenesy]

One of the things I liked best about K & S kits are their av-bays. I put this together in about 5 minutes using thin CA. Capable of up to 2 altimeters and 4 9V batteries.

 

[SSenesy]

The exterior portion of the av-bay consists of two 6" inner tubes and a 4" section of outer tube. I used West Epoxy to join these. They really soak up the epoxy. I'll go back later and coat all the interior surfaces for strength.

 

[TopRamen]

That's a pretty intense looking Rocket! Can't wait to see how she turns out.op:

 

[Eric1]

Subscribed

 

[SSenesy]

After a fair bit of sanding, I got the CR's to fit into the body tube without too much effort. I forgot to mention earlier, but one of the things I like to do with paper tube builds is to saturate the tube edges with thin CA and then hit them up with sandpaper to get smooth. It helps during the build to protect things from fraying when fitting tight CR's. Once things are finished, I give a light coat of a laminating epoxy like West to all inside tube surfaces that have anything plugged into them, like av-bays or NCs.

I'm a bit concerned with the MMT on this build since there are no TTW fins to give it support. I used structural epoxy to glue the MMT into the body tube. Once it dried, I took a syringe and loaded it up with West and injected it onto the top of the top CR, giving it a good coating to seal the joint. Once everything dries (and I get some more West 206 - ran out), I'm going to drill a couple of holes between the CR's and inject a syringe worth onto the inside surface of each CR for strength.

Yes, that's a Viper in the background.

 

[VonMises]

Tag for awesomeness.

 

[mbemerick1]

Subscribed!

 

[Madison Alum]

Great looking project! Is the mm 54mm?

 

[sodmeister]

It`s funny ,I was going to ask if anybody ever ordered one of these kits or the Orion and if anybody had done a build :confused2:

I`m really glad to see you doing a build thread Stan ,should be different and very interseting.......BRAVO for your choice of rockets !!!


Take care and Merry Christmas !

Paul t:snowman:

 

[Zephhyr]

I have the K&S Orion, it is about 3/4 finished (got put on the back burner).

Both are cool kits and I look forward to seeing Stan's Torellian Invader build.

It`s funny ,I was going to ask if anybody ever ordered one of these kits or the Orion and if anybody had done a build :confused2:

I`m really glad to see you doing a build thread Stan ,should be different and very interseting.......BRAVO for your choice of rockets !!!


Take care and Merry Christmas !

Paul t:snowman:

 

[SSenesy]

Great looking project! Is the mm 54mm?

Thank you everyone!

Yes, 54mm mount in a 4" AF. I'm looking to keep this around 3k feet, so RockSim says that a big J is likely the sweet spot. A nice long burn K could be interesting though...

 

[SSenesy]

I have the K&S Orion, it is about 3/4 finished (got put on the back burner).

Both are cool kits and I look forward to seeing Stan's Torellian Invader build.

Tim;

I'd love to see your Orion when you finish! I started the Invader first simply because I was a bit intimidated by the Orion. Seems to be a lot more cutting and possibilities for me to screw something up. I've got the Colonial Viper as well, and it looks to be the same way.

 

[SSenesy]

So, I was gonna stay up late and get as far as I could last night, but I ran out of West 206. I used the last batch to coat the outside of the interior tubes of the av-bay. I'll sand them down later, but this prevents them from getting dinged up when at the field.

I also started putting things onto the sled. I'll be using a RRC-3 for the main altimeter; I haven't selected the backup yet. The Adept22 was my favorite and I haven't found anything in the same price range and ease of use yet. Threaded rods are 5/32". Normally I'd use 1/4-20 on a 4" airframe, but this looks to be pretty light and I'm not too worried about strength.

A quick run to West Marine this morning after I took my family out to breakfast restocked the epoxy, and I stopped by our local hardware store for a couple forged eyebolts.

 

[jsargevt]

Tim;

I'd love to see your Orion when you finish! I started the Invader first simply because I was a bit intimidated by the Orion. Seems to be a lot more cutting and possibilities for me to screw something up. I've got the Colonial Viper as well, and it looks to be the same way.

I will second that! I have both the Torellian and Orion waiting....waiting. I am finishing up the 4" Satellite Interceptor right now. When I say right now, I mean when the weather is warmer and I can paint. I suppose I could fix up the AV bay and all that this winter so there are some things to work on, but the broad strokes, right or wrong are done!

 

[SSenesy]

Kind of a busy day today wrapping my daughter's gifts for Christmas, so not too much got done.

I injected a syringe of epoxy on the interior side of both CRs. While I was doing this, I remembered drilling holes under the fins in mod rocs to form little tabs to help hold the fins on. I figured it couldn't hurt, so I'm doing that here as well to help the pods adhere to the main body tube.

While I was waiting for the epoxy to dry, I glued the small fins on the pods. Doing this before I glued the pods to the main tube makes it much easier to align, and I can use the fins to align the pods on the main tube later.

 

[SSenesy]

Merry Christmas everyone!

After exchanging gifts this morning (early - I've got a six year old ), I got some time to put a bit more work in on the Invader.

I finished up the structural portion of the av-bay. I used Blast Caps for my charge wells, and electrical hardware from Dog House Rocketry. Both work very well for me, and when I find something that works I tend to stick with it.

I made a template to help with the pod alignment and got started gluing the pods to the main body tube. Make sure you rough up the surfaces first, and transfer your alignment marks to the inside of the tubes, otherwise you'll never be able to see them when gluing them on.

 

[SSenesy]

A bit more progress...

I've glued 4 of the pods on. I'm leaving the last 2 off till I get some Acme conformal lugs that I ordered from Giant Leap the other day. The medium wings are done since they line up with the pods already on. I'm going to leave the large wings off till after the last 2 pods are on.

I've still got a lot of sanding to round out the fins already mounted, plus fillets to strengthen things up. I'm starting to think about the canopy and nose blisters. The nose blisters will be made from a mod roc NC, but I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about the canopy.

 

[sodmeister]

I was going to ask you about what was offered ,if anything,for the two blisters and canopy.

Looking back ,I sure wish I would have bought these two kits from Scott when they were offered.I did purchase the K&S 2.6" Colonial Viper and thought it was a very nice kit and a great way to add plenty of detail.I used the kit supplied cardstock canopy from the kit and made mine from Basswood and a few mods.I suppose you may do likewise with your canopy ?

Great build thread BTW !!:handshake:

Cheers

Paul T

 

[SSenesy]

I was going to ask you about what was offered ,if anything,for the two blisters and conopy.

Looking back ,I sure wish I would have bought these two kits from Scott when they were offered.I did purchase the K&S 2.6" Colonial Viper and thought it was a very nice kit and a great way to add plenty of detail.I used the kit supplied cardstock canopy from the kit and made mine from Basswood and a few mods.I suppose you may do likewise with your canopy ?

Great build thread BTW !!:handshake:

Cheers

Paul T

Thanks Paul!

I am waffling on the canopies between using the card stock and glassing it, vs. carving something out of balsa and glassing that. I'm going to run over to Staples later today and run some copies of the canopy template in case I make a mistake with what I've got, then start experimenting...

I was looking at everything last night and I can't say that I'm happy with the NC that came with the kit. It looks like 3:1, where the Estes documentation looks more like 5:1. This essentially gives me two choices - either use the NC that came with it and put the blisters on the AF, or use a different NC. I think I've got a leftover FG cone in the garage from one of my Wildman builds, so I'm going to play with that later too.

 

[G-Dog]

Stan,

I have the Moldin Oldies(MO) version of the cone and the diameter(at shoulder) is .98" and length(not including shoulder) is 4.8"
so your estimate of 5:1 is essentially right on the money,assuming the MO cone I have is accurate,which I believe it is. If the KS
kit includes a 3:1 cone, then you indeed might want to seek another solution....

 

[sodmeister]

Yes ,I think Scott used a lot of LOC cones ,which might account for the 3:1 ogive as opposed to a more pointy 5:1 and like you mention ,it may not look right with the shorter blunt NC.

How about a 4" PML nosecone ,they are 4:1 and closer to the estes shape ,although if you have a FG cone that would certainly work.

For the blisters ,could you use some small Estes type styrene cones and slice into halves ?

What is the shape of the canopy Stan ?

I was also just reading your dilemma regarding rail buttons and tube lugs ,although it would be easier to use lugs (1/2" would you say ?) I myself would try to figure out a way to use buttons.

I too realize there would be no easy way around rail buttons ,and a standoff would be needed for the main body tube attachment ,perhaps using plywood and shaping the leading and aft edges into an airfoil/fin ,to make it look like an antenna or fin ?

For the aft button, you could just cut out a piece of scrap heavy body tube (say 1"long and whatever is needed width wise) ,and nestle in between two of the fin tubes (concave facing upward)

Once soaked in thin CA and sanded smooth ,then drilled and tapped for the button screw ,it would be plenty strong.You could even double up on the aft body tube piece for extra strength.

On my 4" upscale Estes Photon Disruptor ,I made a standoff from many layers of Loc heavy BT ,coated in thin CA and sanded smooth.....it looked just like plywood and worked out very nicely (although using actual plywood would have been a lot easier LOL)

Here`s an idea of what I made ,but there are other options......like using actual Birch ply.

Take care

 

[sandman]

This is it.



View attachment torelion nc loc 4 inch.pdf

 

[sodmeister]

This is it.

Gordy ,is that the blisters or the canopy ?


Paul T

 

[sandman]

That's one of the two blisters for the Torellion Invader.

I just show one in the picture, there is another on on the other side.

 

[sodmeister]

That's one of the two blisters for the Torellion Invader.

I just show one in the picture, there is another on on the other side.

Ah ,I see now.

How is the canopy shaped ?

Paul t

 

[sandman]

Ah ,I see now.

How is the canopy shaped ?

Paul t

I turn the a "tear drop shape on the lathe then cut it in half on the band saw.

Then chisel, carve and sand the inside to fit them on the cone.

I think the one I show in the picture fits a BT-80 but I've done other sizes.

You can see the other blister on the right of the cone.

 

[sodmeister]

Geeze,that is a lot of work, but the result is most excellent......which of course results from the effort taken !

I would take the easy way out,and carve a blister from Balsa block, make a mold and cast two using resin.

Nice work BTW Gordon !


Paul T