RMS casing and reloads

[Dazegoneby]

Hi,

I am new to this group/forum and getting back into Rocketry after a 45+ year hiatus. (life side tracked me a bit

I just finished the Initiator kit, (gave it my own look, instead of the stock colors/decals) bought an RMS 29/40-120 engine case/assembly and some reloads.

I know this will show my ignorance and lack of understanding as I wade back into the "advances" of rocketry in my "golden years".

To the point: I bought a couple 29/120-180 reloads, a couple 29/40-240 reloads, and a 29/40-120 reload (a no brainer this will fit in the engine casing), but here is where I need some help.....will I need a different casing for the higher grain engines I grabbed, or can I load these in to the same engine casing? They look like they will fit the casing, but the last thing I want to see is a launch pad detonation of an "over powered" engine.

My old Estes days as a kid kicked in when I saw the cost efficiency of re-loadable engines and the flexible reload options...and like back then...I learn the hard way (guess I never out grew that LOL).

If anything this will be your laugh of the day...thanks for looking and not making to much fun of this "old-newbie"

Dazegoneby

 

[Area66]

Where are you from ? if you means 29/180 and 29/240 , the 29/180 is a G or H motor and the 29/240 is a High power H motors , you need a certification and launch with a club for H motor and certain G motor in US. anyway the 29/180 and 29/240 need a completely different sort of casing.

 

[fyrwrxz]

Hey Dazegoneby-Welcome to TRF! Good to have anybody 'come back home'! You've taken a giant leap in helping yourself (but maybe not your wallet!) by going out the gate with reloadables. Smart man! So-there is a difference between what is commonly called 'hobby line' or the 'E, F, G' case and the others Area66 names. Take my word and just know you WILL work your way up-it's a genetic propensity! Don't know where you are at, but at some time you will need a Level 1 cert either from NAR or Tripoli once you get into the "H" motors ( I think the G-138 qualifies, too) The beauty of reloadables is you can tailor your flight envelope to field conditions or size as well as ejection delays (do you have the delay tool?) as well as the different propellants (green, red, white or black smoke, sparkies, etc.) Take a look at the excellent program John Coker maintains at www.Thrustcurve.org and you can get into a very user friendly simulation mode to help you understand what to expect from all the choices out there. Straight smoke and good chutes brother-welcome home!

 

[Dazegoneby]

Hey Dazegoneby-Welcome to TRF! Good to have anybody 'come back home'! You've taken a giant leap in helping yourself (but maybe not your wallet!) by going out the gate with reloadables. Smart man! So-there is a difference between what is commonly called 'hobby line' or the 'E, F, G' case and the others Area66 names. Take my word and just know you WILL work your way up-it's a genetic propensity! Don't know where you are at, but at some time you will need a Level 1 cert either from NAR or Tripoli once you get into the "H" motors ( I think the G-138 qualifies, too) The beauty of reloadables is you can tailor your flight envelope to field conditions or size as well as ejection delays (do you have the delay tool?) as well as the different propellants (green, red, white or black smoke, sparkies, etc.) Take a look at the excellent program John Coker maintains at www.Thrustcurve.org and you can get into a very user friendly simulation mode to help you understand what to expect from all the choices out there. Straight smoke and good chutes brother-welcome home!

Thanks for the needed "schooling". I figure I will quit learning when I quit breathing. I should have mentioned all the re-loads are rated G packs, no H packs. I am in Southwestern corner of Wisconsin about an hour from the Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota boarders. Maybe the Hobby stores that sold these to me on line thought I was ordering for my 1st Cert 1 try? I saw G on the label and figured it should fit....should work...go higher- faster! I was thinking of buying a G-Force kit and modifying it to fly from G-I engines. I did talk with Aereotech/Carl in R&D and he said it is easy to put in a 38 mm engine mount in the G-force and use the 29mm adapter for 1st flights until I am ready to jump to cert 1. I bought white, red, and green G engines. No sparkies yet. My check book manager says I have to pay off this bill before I buy more stuff...She has kept me from folding over 41 years, just saying

Appreciate the helping hand (and not laughing too loud)

 

[Dazegoneby]

Thanks for the supportive reply.
They are all G-reloads. I am looking at getting the G-Force kit, beefing it up (fins and coupler) and putting in a 38 mm motor tube for when I jump to Cert 1.
Carl/Aerotech R&D told me it can fly G-I engines with some simple mods for the motor tube. He said after I buy the kit to call and he will walk me through it. NICE GUY!
This is all "new school" from when I flew Estes kits as a kid and got a rush at building from scratch (even had designed a 4 fin mounted boaster engine pod config).

So, I will only be able to fly the "smaller" G Motors? The Initiator Kit recommended engines (single use) are E engines up to G80 7T, so I thought the reloads up to G79W-M would work in my RMS casing.

My reloads are G77R-M, G79W-M G77R-M, and G64-4M. So it looks like I have one engine I can "legally use" in my casing? ... I guess I should ask 1st then open my wallet LOL.
The online Hobby Stores that sold these to me must have thought I was going for Cert 1, I guess.

Thanks for your advice (and not laughing too hard).

 

[jd2cylman]

Howdy Daze!
Welcome back to the hobby. Can you tell us exactly what is says on each reload package you have? Then we can tell you if you need to buy another case or two... :wink::wink:

Look at this site: https://www.wildmanhobbies.com Plus, he goes to all the launches at Bong State Rec Area in Burlington, Wisconsin. Or you can head south to Princeton, Il and fly at QCRS. Send me a email if you want any more info, or do a little searching on this site...

Adrian

 

[Dazegoneby]

According to Wildman's web site, they all will fit in the casing and fly it "fast and high"! I am sooooo pumped!

 

[mikec]

According to Wildman's web site, they all will fit in the casing...

I don't know what you're looking at but of the reloads you mentioned, only the G64 can be used in the 29/40-120 "Hobby Line" case. The G77 and G79 only fit in the 29/120 "high-power style" case, which is different from the 29/40-120.

You might want to look at the Aerotech catalog. https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/products.aspx

 

[terryg]

The 29/40-120 "Hobby Line" case can take a variety of reloads. It does this by varying the type of propellant and by the use of spacers to allow for different amounts AP in each reload. The "high-power style" have different front and rear closures from the hobby line and the length of the cases give the ability to use different power reloads. If you want to fly a 180 reload you purchase the case (tube only) for that size. You can fly the G64W with what you have, but the others will require the the purchase of a complete 29/120 case. The motor retention hooks on aerotech kits work with the hobby line cases but not the high power ones without modification (other methods of motor retention should be considered). You should find a club near you and attend a launch. Not only is it a lot of fun but is a good idea to have someone assist you with the assembly of your first reload.

 

[DizWolf]

My reloads are G77R-M, G79W-M G77R-M, and G64-4M. So it looks like I have one engine I can "legally use" in my casing? ... I guess I should ask 1st then open my wallet LOL.
The online Hobby Stores

G77r, G79R are loads for the 29/120 case. nothing about legal, they just won't fit. The G77 and G79 are perfectly legal for you to fly....just has to be in a 29/120 case.

a 29/120 and a couple G79W's

Some of the differences between the 29/40-120 and 29/120 cases

29/40-120 cases and 29/120 cases. Similiar sizes, but not cross compatible.

You mentioned buying a Green motor. Most likely a G76G, which fits in the 29/40-120 case....and is an awesome little motor

 

[Dazegoneby]

Yup, missed the obvious. I will save those for my "next rocket" LOL

 

[bill_s]

G64-4M. So it looks like I have one engine I can "legally use" in my casing? ... I guess I should ask 1st then open my wallet LOL.

There is no G64-4M. If you meant G64-4W, that's a 4 second delay and too short for the Initiator due to high speed of deployment making it likely to damage the rocket or lose the parachute. OK for large MPRs such as Sumo, G-Force, Mega Der Red Max, although check manufacturer's recommendation and/or run simulations. As to the other reloads, even if they physically fit inside the wrong case, the tricky part is everything must seal properly.

High power and "high power style" (29/120 etc.) motors now come with a single "M" (medium) delay which I believe is 14 seconds, and require adjustment by drilling/drill tool for most rockets. Hobbyline reloads still have a selection of delays, but by drilling you can always buy a longer delay. See Aerotech drilling tool and or use these instructions: https://www.artapplewhite.com/images/vendors/rms_delay_mod_inst.pdf

 

[Area66]

High power and "high power style" (29/120 etc.) motors now come with a single "M" (medium) delay which I believe is 14 seconds, and require adjustment by drilling/drill tool for most rockets.

M is 10 seconds

 

[Dazegoneby]

Can I get a longer ejection charge , say a 7 or 10 and use that with the Initiator instead? I feel like I was in a coma for half a decade and woke up to a whole new world of rocketry. Maybe I shoyld just put all my RMS engines on Ebay and just fly one shot peloads listed on tyhe kit box for this rocket.

 

[Dazegoneby]

Good to know. Feel like I have woke from a dead sleep and being brought up to speed at warp. I appreciate all the help. Guess thats why it's called Rocket Science LOL Regards!

 

[Dazegoneby]

Yeah, it is a 4W. Type - O with injured finger. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[fyrwrxz]

Can I get a longer ejection charge , say a 7 or 10 and use that with the Initiator instead? I feel like I was in a coma for half a decade and woke up to a whole new world of rocketry. Maybe I shoyld just put all my RMS engines on Ebay and just fly one shot peloads listed on tyhe kit box for this rocket.

Do NOT do that! Do a little research on the Aerotech page for delays. You can replace what came in the package to get closer or get the 14 sec and drill down. More motors is always an option Check out Balsa machining Services (BMS) for some choice prices for delayed gratification. It's a great discount if you can wait. Don't blame me-I'm known 'enabler'.

 

[Dazegoneby]

Thanks! I tend to default to a "safe place" when I am overwhelmed. I tend to let frustration take over. No, I wont sell them off. I think these high powers will work great in a beefed up G-Force. Yeah, I need to learn the fine art of adjusting longer delay charges. I love your "Big Brother" candor and your willingness to help an old newbie get back into flying his bird. Cheers! *~*

Do NOT do that! Do a little research on the Aerotech page for delays. You can replace what came in the package to get closer or get the 14 sec and drill down. More motors is always an option Check out Balsa machining Services (BMS) for some choice prices for delayed gratification. It's a great discount if you can wait. Don't blame me-I'm known 'enabler'.

 

[scsager]

... I am in Southwestern corner of Wisconsin about an hour from the Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota boarders.

Hello - Dazegoneby!! :wave:

Judging from the above description of your location - I'm thinking it would be great for you to come to the "BONG" in June and July.

ECOF (Eat Cheese or Fly) will be held June 21 & 22. LDRS (Large Dangerous Rocket Ships) July 17th - 20th.

ECOF is Wisconsin's premier summertime rocket launch. Hosted by WOOSH - with the greatest bunch of rocket folks from the WI-IL area.
More info >>> https://www.wooshrocketry.org/

LDRS is a humongous luanch where you will see all kinds of rockets, large, small, and everything in between.
More info >>> https://www.ldrs33.com/

At either launch you will be able to chat with lots of rocket-folks, and hit up the vendor(s) for kits, motors, supplies, etc.
I'm a member of WOOSH - beginners are always welcome and encouraged to attend our launches!

 

[jd2cylman]

Daze,

Looks like you're in for a drive either way you go...
2 /2hrs to Bong and 2 3/4 hrs to Princeton for QCRS. Both places have good people and are good to launch at.

Adrian

 

[terryg]

Delay kits:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=82&Sub=85&Sub1=88

Hobby line Reloads:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=82&Sub=85&Sub1=87

Another source of Hobby line reloads:

https://www.hobbylinc.com/small_reloadable_model_rocket_engines

 

[Rex R]

two hour drive for me to get to Bong.
Rex